31 replies to this topic

[adamts01]

We saw the Kodiak nerf from a mile away, and in true PGI fashion, they gimped the variants that didn't need it. We had a feeling the "OP, meta, easy button, Locust" was getting nerfed, and it did. But the Blackjack, why? It wasn't a bad chassis, somewhere in the middle ground, and it got the rest of its structure yanked. It was OP for a while, then half structure and offensive quirks brought it very much in line, then it got bigger and stayed mediocre, now it got this new blow..... Every time PGI swings the nerf bat they **** up way more than they fix. Was I missing something? Was the Blackjack still top of the mediums on some island?

[Y E O N N E]

It's solid and one of the better options, but it's not used anywhere at the moment.

It's also not a 'Mech you see frequently in QP. Most of the ones you do see are potatoes that get isolated and murdered quickly.

[adamts01]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

It's solid and one of the better options, but it's not used anywhere at the moment.

It's also not a 'Mech you see frequently in QP. Most of the ones you do see are potatoes that get isolated and murdered quickly.

That's how I feel too. I think PGI nailed that mech before the re-size. It went right to the upper middle of the pile where all OP mechs should go. The re-size surprised me on it. And now this..... It's almost as if they dug up a memo from 6 months ago and forgot they already fixed it. Just another example proving how completely out of touch they are with their product. Such a shame.

[Juodas Varnas]

Maybe they decided they cant buff Vindicators and Phoenix Hawks to Blackjack's level, so they decided to nerf Blackjack to the level of Vindicator and Phoenix Hawk instead

[Deathlike]

Juodas Varnas, on 15 July 2016 - 08:09 PM, said:

Maybe they decided they cant buff Vindicators and Phoenix Hawks to Blackjack's level, so they decided to nerf Blackjack to the level of Vindicator and Phoenix Hawk instead

You know, it's probably closer to the truth than you'd think.

The Phoenix Hawk took the reigns as the worst Medium from the Vindicator - an honor only bestowed by our great balance overlord.

"I didn't think it was possible." - said everyone before the Phoenix Hawk's introduction.

"Yes we can." - said the nerfbat of our balance overlord.

[Y E O N N E]

adamts01, on 15 July 2016 - 08:07 PM, said:

That's how I feel too. I think PGI nailed that mech before the re-size. It went right to the upper middle of the pile where all OP mechs should go. The re-size surprised me on it. And now this..... It's almost as if they dug up a memo from 6 months ago and forgot they already fixed it. Just another example proving how completely out of touch they are with their product. Such a shame.

I honestly thought the BJ-1X was good before they gave it the super structure buffs in the first place. It was a glass cannon; deadly in expert hands but still eminently kill-able. It was perfect (like the Locust right now as of 16 June 2016).

And the BJ-1DC and BJ-1 are still incredibly mediocre even with their fantastic offensive abilities. And as much as I love it, so is the Arrow. Out of all the Blackjacks, the Arrow is the one that needs the direct durability buffs because the weapons they want you to associate it with demand that it just sit there and saw away. They don't saw fast enough for how squishy the thing is.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 15 July 2016 - 08:30 PM.

[FupDup]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

I honestly thought the BJ-1X was good before they gave it the super structure buffs in the first place. It was a glass cannon; deadly in expert hands but still eminently kill-able. It was perfect (like the Locust right now as of 16 June 2016).

And the BJ-1DC and BJ-1 are still incredibly mediocre even with their fantastic offensive abilities. And as much as I love it, so is the Arrow. Out of all the Blackjacks, the Arrow is the one that needs the direct durability buffs because the weapons they want you to associate it with demand that it just sit there and saw away. They don't saw fast enough for how squishy the thing is.

WTB MG buffs and/or MG quirks that aren't pitiful.

Unfortunately, the Devastating 6 MG Spider™ prevents us from having nice things.

[ScarecrowES]

On the upside, this brings all 45-tonners more in line with each other. V indicator and Shadowcat stayed where they were in the middle, and the two outliers were brought toward center.

Realistically the whole quirk pass is like that. Pulling mechs toward the center. A lot of mechs that no longer needed massive quirks got dialed back. The Blackjack was still the best 45-tonner despite the minor size increase.

[Y E O N N E]

FupDup, on 15 July 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

WTB MG buffs and/or MG quirks that aren't pitiful.

Unfortunately, the Devastating 6 MG Spider™ prevents us from having nice things.

Alternatively, if I'm being selfish and only care about the Arrow, ballistic cool-down buffs approaching those on the BJ-1 and -1DC so I can replace two of the MGs with AC/2 and have a real buzz-saw.

[adamts01]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 08:30 PM, said:

I honestly thought the BJ-1X was good before they gave it the super structure buffs in the first place. It was a glass cannon;

Back then the 30 point alpha on the Jenner F was substantial. Pre-quirk performance really isn't relative.

The BJ just seems out of place to me. The tonnage difference between the BJ and MLX is about the same as the BJ and the Atlas. But the BJ seems a little big now that it has no structure. I just think everything is a mess right now, and I wish PGI was less liberal with dimensions.

[Y E O N N E]

adamts01, on 15 July 2016 - 09:51 PM, said:

Back then the 30 point alpha on the Jenner F was substantial. Pre-quirk performance really isn't relative.

I'm still talking post-quirks. For awhile, Blackjacks had only modest structure quirks but the BJ-1X had 351 meter range on its MedLas (286 on MedPulse) with a 15% duration reduction and some agility buffs. It was absolutely beautiful at what it did, but it was a one-trick pony and it was fragile. You had to use speed and positioning to stay alive, because it was only average at tanking and was not fast or small enough to juke shots.

Then they gave the BJs this massive set of structure buffs, and turned every variant into a monster. That sparked outrage on the forums, and instead of simply rolling back the change, PGI came up with new nerfs. PGI as a company is pretty much incapable of completely owning up to the concept that one of their ideas can be totally wrong. They will always try to make the new idea work no matter how bad it is.

[Mcgral18]

FupDup, on 15 July 2016 - 08:31 PM, said:

WTB MG buffs and/or MG quirks that aren't pitiful.

Unfortunately, the Devastating 6 MG Spider™ prevents us from having nice things.

Is it worth mentioning that the Arrow has the best MGs in the game (between quirk+quantity)?
They have the same DPS as before the Trifecta of Suck (equal to the Duplexity of Suck)


They've lost the range quirk, which isn't exactly the best thing...what they need is a CoF quirk...or straight up attribute change to Damage And/Or CoF

Edited by Mcgral18, 15 July 2016 - 10:19 PM.

[adamts01]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 10:02 PM, said:

I'm still talking post-quirks. For awhile, Blackjacks had only modest structure quirks but the BJ-1X had 351 meter range on its MedLas (286 on MedPulse) with a 15% duration reduction and some agility buffs.

Ahhhhhh, that's right. That was during the year I took a MWO break. I'm in the process of another, so soon I'll have plenty more ignorant comments like the former.

[TheArisen]

The BJ has been pretty fragile since the rescale but it seems the old reputation sticks around.

[Lily from animove]

Yeonne Greene, on 15 July 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

It's solid and one of the better options, but it's not used anywhere at the moment.

It's also not a 'Mech you see frequently in QP. Most of the ones you do see are potatoes that get isolated and murdered quickly.

the current challanges bring up a lot blackjacks and they seem todo quite well. if a nerf was really needed however, well, ask a dice.

[Yellonet]

Lily from animove, on 16 July 2016 - 01:57 AM, said:

the current challanges bring up a lot blackjacks and they seem todo quite well. if a nerf was really needed however, well, ask a dice.

If they were clearly better than other mechs of comparable size and weight, then yes, they needed a nerf. And yes, I play Black Jacks, I'm actually starting to like my BJ-1 again, long range annoyance dakka

[El Bandito]

Yellonet, on 16 July 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

If they were clearly better than other mechs of comparable size and weight, then yes, they needed a nerf. And yes, I play Black Jacks, I'm actually starting to like my BJ-1 again, long range annoyance dakka

BJ-1, with is AC2 range and CD quirks can snipe Omega like nobody's business in FW. But don't tell PGI that.

[Coolant]

laser vomit BJ got nerfed...I love it, just like I love the Kodiak and Locust nerfs. This is a great patch

[xXBagheeraXx]

Because it was decent. Anything decent in this game cannot be allowed to survive. Look how long it took them to un gimp Madcats and Stormcrows.

Direwolves are still crap and now the majority of the decent IS mechs, especially the assaults lose thier quirks. Battlemasters where a nice staple in Faction Warfare, and the 10% energy range and medium laser bonus range really helped them out in midrange fights. The accel quirks made the Marauders REALLY nice peekaboom mechs, able to poke, do damage and duck while keeping those easy to hit side torsos out of fire...Nerfed....

No idea why the hell novas got gimeped either. Those where still pretty much meat on the table, especially if you sawed off the arms.

[Yellonet]

El Bandito, on 16 July 2016 - 02:48 AM, said:

BJ-1, with is AC2 range and CD quirks can snipe Omega like nobody's business in FW. But don't tell PGI that.

How could I, I don't have twitter.