65 replies to this topic

[TheWatchman]

I am someone who has played MWO for quite some time and played previous mech warrior titles before that so before I begin understand I am not new to battletech.

The shadowcat in lore was a strike mech that was supposed to replace the ice ferret and was used extensively by the clans.

The Prime variant in lore had the following:

45 tons, ferro fibrous armor, 270 XL engine, 10 double heatsinks total, a gauss rifle, two medium ER-Lasers, MASC, jumpjets and an active probe. It could run 97 kph and 130 kph while using MASC.

I have mastered the shadowcat on one variant and elited another two. With MASC it doesn't reach 130 kph, using all said equipment with 2.5 tons of ammo for gauss all i can say is that the armor is not even at half. Ignoring some of the unneeded heat sinks it still does not reach a useful level of armor all round.

It goes without saying the hardpoints suck and are not lore friendly having only one missile torso and a maximum of one laser on each arm and a torso. PGI has made the shadowcat unviable as a lore mech and extremely squishy even for a medium mech. Supposedly these could fight other medium mechs on even ground but that is not the case in MWO.

In summary and TL;DR:

PGI needs to add hardpoints, increase available equipment and armor tonnage and fix run speed without MASC. All i want is a lore based shadowcat that does what it was meant to do. It's not a sniping mech, its a strike mech. Difference? Strike mechs run towards enemies. Snipers run.

make this game lore based PGI. This isn't the only mech lacking in lore friendliness.

[Carl Vickers]

Hmmm, more hardpoint inflation, yeah, just what this game really needs.

Scat is fine, I saw a guy a few matches ago get 900 damage with 2 large pulse, mech is fine.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 16 July 2016 - 10:26 PM.

[ProfessorD]

It would be nice if the Shadowcat could get more hardpoints, but that certainly wouldn't be "lore friendly." The Prime, A, and B variants have exactly the weapons and equipment from lore.

So, what are you even asking for? You can run your lore build just fine if you want.

[Malcolm Vordermark]

Well the p is not canon. A few energy or some cooling quirks would be great.

As for the rest. Equipment, armor, and hard points are accurate. Lore just doesnt always translate well.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

TheWatchman, on 16 July 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

PGI needs to add hardpoints, increase available equipment and armor tonnage and fix run speed without MASC. All i want is a lore based shadowcat that does what it was meant to do. It's not a sniping mech, its a strike mech. Difference? Strike mechs run towards enemies. Snipers run.

The Shadow Cat was never a great strike mech even in lore, one of the best configurations is the A and it definitely is meant to harass at range. Strike mechs tend to have short range weaponry, not mid-long.

That said I wouldn't mind more hardpoints, but then it competes with pretty much every other Clan medium. It just needs to be better at range to make it more unique, like PPC quirks or laser duration quirks.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 July 2016 - 11:00 PM.

[LordNothing]

the scat was one of my favorite mechs in its class in mwll. here its just a worthless bit of scrap metal that has kind of a niche roll as a poptart sniper.

[Yellonet]

I often see SHC's with high scores and many kills, seems to be nothing wrong with it, sure it could be better, but so could every mech.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Shadowcat is a great mech - if - you stick to the very small handful of viable builds

[jjm1]

Single/dual ballistics should be addressed, since they are almost useless when compared to energy builds. Especially the gauss builds that have to lug about 15 tons just to achieve the worst DPS and the lowest damage potential possible. Not to mention the gauss is better at being a grenade than a rifle.

[Paigan]

TheWatchman, on 16 July 2016 - 10:22 PM, said:

I am someone who has played MWO for quite some time and played previous mech warrior titles before that so before I begin understand I am not new to battletech.

[...]
I have mastered the shadowcat on one variant and elited another two. With MASC it doesn't reach 130 kph, [...]

We had the topic of MASC up and down, back and forth to the death upon its release.

Long story short:
- In BT TT, MASC is PURELY a speed boost.
- In MWO, MASC is primarily an acceleration-, agility- and instant-continue-running-after-JJ-touchdown-boost PLUS a considerable speed boost.

I play EXE and SHC like 90% of my time and I find MASC perfectly good now.
Of course more would always better for me personally, but from an objective point of view, balance is paramount.
(On a side note: if you don't have at least 3 SHC elited, you can hardly have enough play time experience with it to be a viable judge of the Mech or MASC)

If it were implemented strictly to match TT, it would be MUCH WORSE to the point of uselessness.

Also please understand that many original BT TT rules, designs, etc. are simply moronic (e.g. all weapons having a cooldown of 10 seconds) and MUST be overhauled to make sense in a more complex, realistic, realtime environment like MWO is.

Argueing "MWO doesn't match TT" is very, VERY simplistic and wrong thinking.

Edited by Paigan, 17 July 2016 - 02:06 AM.

[habu86]

Shadowcat is fine. In fact, it's one of those niche mechs that can be an amazing amount of fun to run when you want to take a break from the meta, but not screw yourself over completely.

Others have mentioned the 2xLPL build and it is in fact a very solid one, good for sniping and pop-tarting alike. I actually used to run a 2xLPL 6xMG Shadowcat back before structure quirks became widespread... It was my game turnaround machine and many assaults and heavies with open internals regretted crossing my path. Alas, all good things must come to an end, so i've traded the MGs for ECM.

If you want striker builds, try running 3xSSRM6 and either 2SPL (my preference), 2SL, or 2ML. If you want something with higher DPS, and more control over the location where your shots land, try it with 3xSRM6+Artemis. I prefer to use the extra range on the streaks and the Shadowcat's maneuverability to gain side angles on mechs in order to minimize shot spread, but there's more than one way to skin this cat.

Alternatively, if ballistics are your thing, slap a UAC-10 and your choice of backup weapons (2xSPL is my personal preference, but I mostly run that build on Vitric, so heat efficiency is important) on the thing and use that maneuverability and jump capacity to flank the big boys and rip their backsides open.

The Shadowcat's main problem is that it needs more hardpoints to really do well in the current meta. Adherence to the lore won't get you that; the highest hardpoint count in lore is on the -J (7 ballistics), followed by the -C, with five. Everything else has only 3 or 2.

[Champion of Khorne Lord of Blood]

The Shadow Cat is perfectly inline with lore, it doesn't run max armor in lore just like many mechs. It also works perfectly fine as a striker in MWO.

You seem to believe strikers must be close range, but even the lore build of a gauss and ERML shows its not built for up close. If you do really wish to battle up close you can run 3 ASRM6 with a pair of medium or small pulse lasers or throw in some machine guns if you value them over ECM for whatever reason, or bring a UAC10 along and a few other light weapons and go to town.

What happens to be its most solid loadout I've used in MWO is the 2 LPL loadout, you keep a mid to long range loadout with MASC, great jump jets, and great manuverability in a small mech with high hardpoints but give up high firepower. All you do with the build is play as a striker the entire match, you run, jump, dodge, peek, shoot, flank, and can make a get away from most enemies, or at least lead them on to your allies since your ECM kills their radar leaving them blind to your buddies over the hill 100m from you.

Its one of my most fun mechs to play and its my best preforming medium.

This all said, its not for everyone and could use a few buffs. One main buff it could use is higher ammo counts, running max armor, ECM, and TC1 and trying to bring something like a gauss rifle and just one ERML leaves you with too little ammo to justify the gauss in most cases. It could also benefit greatly from some buffs to its use of ERPPCs, right now using dual ERPPC runs extremely hot, especially with jump jet use, the mech doesn't have much tonnage for heat sinks. I'm on the fence with armor since its role, as you mentioned, is a striker, strikers hit and run so acceleration and deceleration would be better than structure, but the Shadow Cat already has MASC, being able to use MASC even more often would be an extremely powerful buff for this mech.

Of course I see how a Shadow Cat with something like double the current MASC cooldown rate and PPC quirks like a Vindicator could actually be overpowered, though I could be biased by the fact that I know how to pilot it well already and feel PPFLD damage would be the best thing ever.

[Pariah Devalis]

All the mech could use is an invented left torso omnipod that packs at least one laser extra. Or 1E1M combination. Something to challenge the no brainer nature of the ECM side torso with a more offensive pod. If it challenges other Clan mediums without being outright superior, that's a good thing. Means more options in our toolkit.

Either way, the mech as a sneaky bugger works very well. 2 LPLas runs extremely well on it. 3 A-SRM6 2 SPLas is pretty damned effective in a brawl, assuming you play to the mech's strengths. 2 ERPPC is actually hilarious on the mech. The platform is also a surprisingly good LRM mech, being able to scout for itself, narc for itself, defend itself with lasers, and still pack reasonable LRM firepower.

Clan Nova Cat designed the mech to be a bit sneaky, and an absolute gymnast. Jumping, MASCing, repositioning, striking, repeat. If you want a more firepower heavy, lineman approach to Nova Cat mechology, buy a Huntsman.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 July 2016 - 06:11 AM.

[TercieI]

LordNothing, on 16 July 2016 - 11:29 PM, said:

the scat was one of my favorite mechs in its class in mwll. here its just a worthless bit of scrap metal that has kind of a niche roll as a poptart sniper.

No. The PPC build is the third or fourth best build on it. Dual LPLs has actually seen use in comp and is the clearly best build. ERLLs can be used too but the burn time is always an issue.

[Pariah Devalis]

TercieI, on 17 July 2016 - 06:10 AM, said:

No. The PPC build is the third or fourth best build on it. Dual LPLs has actually seen use in comp and is the clearly best build. ERLLs can be used too but the burn time is always an issue.

Yeah... If it got a nice ~15% ERLaser burn duration quirk, a triple ERLLas SHC would be fantastic, IMO. However, looking at what they're doing to various mechs these last two patches, it almost appears that PGI is scaling back quirks across the board. o_0

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 July 2016 - 06:13 AM.

[Mazzyplz]

scat is better than cicada and cda is a solid mech. - scat can mount clan xl.
thanks for wasting my time with this thread.

[TercieI]

Pariah Devalis, on 17 July 2016 - 06:12 AM, said:

Yeah... If it got a nice ~15% ERLaser burn duration quirk, a triple ERLLas SHC would be fantastic, IMO. However, looking at what they're doing to various mechs these last two patches, it almost appears that PGI is scaling back quirks across the board. o_0

Maybe. Ghost heat on 3 is annoying and dodging it makes your burn time even worse. I haven't run that build much so I'm not completely sure.

Yeah, they seem to be pulling quirks back much closer to baseline. I actually approve of this if they stick with with it (and give a few more where still needed such as on 35 tonners)

[Pariah Devalis]

TercieI, on 17 July 2016 - 06:16 AM, said:

Maybe. Ghost heat on 3 is annoying and dodging it makes your burn time even worse. I haven't run that build much so I'm not completely sure.

Yeah, they seem to be pulling quirks back much closer to baseline. I actually approve of this if they stick with with it (and give a few more where still needed such as on 35 tonners)

If they wipe the quirks but normalize weapons based on the average quirk bonus, I'd be very happy. I have an issue with weapon specific quirks, honestly. It pigeonholes mechs into specific weapon loadouts. Oh, half the mechs with PPC on them have a 50% velocity quirk? I guess we can give the PPC a 25% faster base velocity...... Or, nobody uses the C-ERLLas because you can finish War And Peace in the time it takes to discharge one? Maybe we should lower the burn time a smidge....

Edit: The ghost heat on 3 is felt, but you can still alpha it twice from zero heat. A nice opener if the enemy is being especially evasive. Too bad the burn is so damned long....

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 July 2016 - 06:21 AM.

[Baulven]

I honestly think guass shots per ton might need adjusted up a bit. The weapon itself makes it impossible to put it and any reasonable amount of ammo on anything short of an assualt.

[Pariah Devalis]

Baulven, on 17 July 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

I honestly think guass shots per ton might need adjusted up a bit. The weapon itself makes it impossible to put it and any reasonable amount of ammo on anything short of an assualt.

Eh. I actually find Gauss surprisingly ammo efficient, actually. An AC20 needs 3.5-4 tons of ammo per gun, an AC2 or 5 needs around 3 tons of ammo per gun, a Gauss Rifle about 2.5 tons of ammo per gun, and an AC10 only 2 tons of ammo per gun. If it's an ultra, an extra ton of ammo might be warranted. Gauss does so much pinpoint damage, though, with such a fast projectile, on as long of a cooldown as it has, with a mechanism that allows you to cancel a bad shot before it's made, that it sips ammo.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 17 July 2016 - 06:28 AM.