295 replies to this topic

[Baulven]

Belacose, on 19 July 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

Strip all quirks and then the Clan rules.

The idea is to do it on the test server, have incentives for people to use the test server, and to buff what is necessary once baseline is figured out. That way we aren't exposed to omg flavor of the month quirks and meta all the time.

[Pariah Devalis]

Belacose, on 19 July 2016 - 04:06 AM, said:

Strip all quirks and then the Clan rules.

I donno. The status of Clan lasers is nowhere near where they were at launch, and the IS have improved lasers vs what they had as well. I wouldn't mind structure quirked tanky IS mechs to glass cannon Clan mechs, but it's hard to get a real feel for things in the current environment with all the quirks obfuscating things. If PGI would incentivize the test client with main account rewards based on participation in the test, we'd probably see a more healthy turnout of players to test things.

In fact, something this far reaching is ideal for the test client. Run tests with no quirks, and then only defensive quirks if necessary until a comfortable state of balance is reached, entirely on the test servers. Only once the balance is vetted and accepted apply to the main server.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 July 2016 - 04:48 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Pariah Devalis, on 19 July 2016 - 04:46 AM, said:

In fact, something this far reaching is ideal for the test client. Run tests with no quirks, and then only defensive quirks if necessary until a comfortable state of balance is reached, entirely on the test servers. Only once the balance is vetted and accepted apply to the main server.

LOL
- we had this already - remember the last PTS sessions.
Four phases and in the end almost all changes didn't went life.

If there is a way to be sure really nobody will visit PTS again, this was it.

Edited by Karl Streiger, 19 July 2016 - 05:00 AM.

[Pariah Devalis]

Karl Streiger, on 19 July 2016 - 04:59 AM, said:

LOL
- we had this already - remember the last PTS sessions.
Four phases and in the end almost all changes didn't went life.

If there is a way to be sure really nobody will visit PTS again, this was it.

They failed to follow the last line in my quote. The changes were not approved of by community feedback, but PGI still shoved it down our throats. Then were all surprised when there was backlash. PGI makes me wonder what the heck is wrong with them, sometimes often...

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 July 2016 - 05:01 AM.

[Belacose]

The live server is the test server, silly wabbits.

Edited by Belacose, 19 July 2016 - 05:08 AM.

[Kmieciu]

EvilCow, on 19 July 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

Which could be perfectly fine if teams are not symmetric: 16vs10 or 12vs10, with asymmetric tonnages on top.

Name one asymmetric multiplayer FPS shooter that is successful. Ideally one without re-spawns.

EvilCow, on 19 July 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

You would have to balance technologies only among themselves not this continuous fanbois fight we have now.

How would You balance a Gargoyle against a Timber Wolf, without using quirks?

Edited by Kmieciu, 19 July 2016 - 05:26 AM.

[EvilCow]

Kmieciu, on 19 July 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

Name one asymmetric multiplayer FPS shooter that is successful. Ideally one without re-spawns.

There has to be a first one.

Kmieciu, on 19 July 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

How would You balance a Gargoyle against a Timber Wolf, without using quirks?

By making the Gargoyle not suck by design, it is PGI-imposed rules causing this.

[Belacose]

EvilCow, on 19 July 2016 - 05:35 AM, said:

By making the Gargoyle not suck by design, it is PGI-imposed rules causing this.

And how would you achieve such? Raise all the hardpoints up higher? Shorten the arms?

[Pariah Devalis]

Belacose, on 19 July 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

And how would you achieve such? Raise all the hardpoints up higher? Shorten the arms?

Unlock internal structure. That alone would fix the Gargoyle, mostly fix the Summoner, and improve the Mad Dog. It would have exactly zero impact on the Timberwolf, Ebon Jaguar, Stormcrow, or Arctic Cheetah.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 July 2016 - 05:43 AM.

[EvilCow]

Pariah Devalis, on 19 July 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

Unlock internal structure. That alone would fix the Gargoyle, mostly fix the Summoner, and improve the Mad Dog. It would have exactly zero impact on the Timberwolf, Ebon Jaguar, Stormcrow, or Arctic Cheetah.

Correct, those rules are a way to self-inflict problems and quirks are a way to mitigate those same SELF-inflicted problems.

Unlocking structure/armour would not really affect top performers.

Edited by EvilCow, 19 July 2016 - 06:17 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

Pariah Devalis, on 19 July 2016 - 05:43 AM, said:

Unlock internal structure. That alone would fix the Gargoyle, mostly fix the Summoner, and improve the Mad Dog. It would have exactly zero impact on the Timberwolf, Ebon Jaguar, Stormcrow, or Arctic Cheetah.

You really, really do not want me to have access to a Timberwolf that can mount 2xcERPPC and cGauss all in the torsos while still packing 5x JJ...

[Pariah Devalis]

Yeonne Greene, on 19 July 2016 - 08:51 AM, said:

You really, really do not want me to have access to a Timberwolf that can mount 2xcERPPC and cGauss all in the torsos while still packing 5x JJ...

I've seen worse things out there. Gauss ST will be the first to go, then the crippling heat will mitigate the ERPPC and their shitreg. It really doesn't faze me.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 19 July 2016 - 08:58 AM.

[Mystere]

EvilCow, on 19 July 2016 - 04:11 AM, said:

Which could be perfectly fine if teams are not symmetric: 16vs10 or 12vs10, with asymmetric tonnages on top.

You would have to balance technologies only among themselves not this continuous fanbois fight we have now.

But it's too hard and too much work!

[EvilCow]

Mystere, on 19 July 2016 - 10:13 AM, said:

But it's too hard and too much work!

Too much work compared to what? it is just some changes to the MM and limited changes to the GUI.

We already had Clan vs IS games and asymmetric tonnage in CW.

Not a big deal, it would be much harder to decide to go in that direction that doing it.

[Mystere]

EvilCow, on 19 July 2016 - 10:45 AM, said:

Too much work compared to what? it is just some changes to the MM and limited changes to the GUI.

We already had Clan vs IS games and asymmetric tonnage in CW.

Not a big deal, it would be much harder to decide to go in that direction that doing it.

Well, to quote the naysayers from this very same thread, such a system is uncool, horrible, extraordinarily difficult, has never been done before:

Quote

Not many people would be cool with using junker mechs even if the game was balanced.

Quote

Assymetric balance is extraordinary difficult, and to my knowledge has never been successfully implemented in a competitive PvP game.

Quote

Assimetric balance won't work in a PvP like MWO. Maybe in another kind of games could do it, but not in this one. I want my 70 ton IS mech to be as powerful as a 70 ton Clan mech, I'm not cannon fodder.

Quote

10 v 12 balance was never on the table because it's a horrible, humiliatingly bad to even consider balance mechanic for a FPS that will fortunately never see the light of day as it would require as many or more tweaks to original stats as balance does if not more so, plus all the issues pointed out a billion times in these debates on why the idea is pure unmitigated failure.

Edited by Mystere, 19 July 2016 - 11:41 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 19 July 2016 - 11:12 AM, said:

Well, to quote the naysayers from another thread, such a system is uncool, horrible, extraordinarily difficult, has never been done before:

uh..you know your hyperlink takes you back to the beginning of.... this thread?

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 19 July 2016 - 11:34 AM, said:

uh..you know your hyperlink takes you back to the beginning of.... this thread?

Argh! Serves me right for being lazy ...

There, it's fixed!!!

Edited by Mystere, 19 July 2016 - 11:42 AM.

[Raso]

I'm down. Remove all the quirks then give weapons a balance pass. I feel the mech quirks are seriously standing in the way of some of the more needed balance changes.

Make the PPC viable and adjust their heat an velocity (maybe toss in an ever so minor nerf to the LPL's range in order to reduce the redundancy of the two weapons or up the range of PPCs across the board?).
Adjust the velocity of the ACs.
Adjust LBX spread and/or up it's damage.
Adjust beam duration across the board if necessary.

Make all weapons viable.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Heck yeah!

Let's remove all quirks. Hell, while we are at it, let's also....

Increase PPC/ERPPC velocity by 50%
Reduce both PPC and ERPPC heat
Remove Ghost Heat all together
Restore JJs to their original glory
Increase Gauss Rifle durability by 4x
Remove Gauss Charge mechanic
Restore "Predator" heat vision
Unlock all clan fixed equipment
Shorten Clan energy duration across the board
Lower Clan energy weapon heat
Alter Clan ballistics to be FLD like IS
Restore SSRMs to center torso seeking only
LRMs can have a pure vertical decent angle

What else...hmmm...

You know what! Restore all armor values back to x1!

Yeah, let's really role everything back! That would be something.

[Ahja]

Ah Bishop still trying to fight the good fight. What would an MMO be without out right magic?