25 replies to this topic

[Jack Spade Ward]

Well, since the last patch, the rescale in my opinion was a very good job indeed! Now there is a standartization of everysingle mech volume in the game!

As such, some light mechs got themselves rescaled acording the tonnage they are. We see some light pilots crying about their mechs (Oxides specially) that now can actually be hit and damage registered.

As the most ancient players know, light mechs were always the biggest threat on the game, specially to the assault mechs. Every light pilot knows that the best way to destroy an assault is with a light mech (IS light preferably). Now, with the rescale, the most popular light mechs such as the Oxide, firesatarter and spider cant be as powerfull as they once were, due to the fact that those mechs can be hit now.

But, with the rescale, the Locust got even smaller, Wich i do agree! It was hard to see a 20t mech almost the same size as a 35t Jenner, with its 15t diference. And if we compared to a 50t Crab or even a Centurion, the Jenner looked so tiny with its 15t diference. So yes, i do agree with the rescale. Awsome job!

But with the rescale, the Locust became the META!!!! You only see Locusts around! And those nasty buggers are so hard to kill. They became what the 35 tonners were, they became the biggest threat on the battlefield. They are faster, have excelent structure quirks, the PB has ECM even!

That said, i do beleive that the Locusts dont need they structure quirks anylonger! Those pesky liltle mechs are so powerfull as they are, so the fact that they even have quirks will only make them OP.

As any good light pilot knows, speed is the armor of a light mech! Speed and manouverability. With that, the locust has the highest speed on the game, making him the stronger light mech around, and considering it is so tiny now...

Again, a NERF on the Locust is needed! Otherwise, the only way to kill a locust is with streaks... Wich will make people use alot of streaks... making people to think that the streaks themselves are OP (wrongly)!

Think about it and how the locusts are...

[Pineapple Salad]

I agree that locusts are kinda annoying now. I wouldn't touch the durability quirks however, they are already easy to one-shot with many weapon combos. I would remove or decrease the mobility quirks instead, making hitting them slightly more consistent.

[Maugged]

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Well, since the last patch, the rescale in my opinion was a very good job indeed! Now there is a standartization of everysingle mech volume in the game!

No it didn't. Light mechs were already the least played because of the advanced skill cap they require to perform decently, now they are even less played than before.

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

As such, some light mechs got themselves rescaled acording the tonnage they are. We see some light pilots crying about their mechs (Oxides specially) that now can actually be hit and damage registered.

They could be hit and killed before. It's a pebkac here. Not a game problem.

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

As the most ancient players know, light mechs were always the biggest threat on the game, specially to the assault mechs. Every light pilot knows that the best way to destroy an assault is with a light mech (IS light preferably). Now, with the rescale, the most popular light mechs such as the Oxide, firesatarter and spider cant be as powerfull as they once were, due to the fact that those mechs can be hit now.

See above. Pebkac. If you couldn't kill a light mech before you must seriously reconsider your own abilities.

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

But with the rescale, the Locust became the META!!!! You only see Locusts around! And those nasty buggers are so hard to kill. They became what the 35 tonners were, they became the biggest threat on the battlefield. They are faster, have excelent structure quirks, the PB has ECM even!

That's one of the three playable light mechs post patch, and for the first time of his existance in MWO it's not just a free candy anymore it can actually be a minimum relevant in a fight.

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

That said, i do beleive that the Locusts dont need they structure quirks anylonger! Those pesky liltle mechs are so powerfull as they are, so the fact that they even have quirks will only make them OP.

Nope Raven and ACH are much better. You're just focusing on Locusts because they are out of your skill reach when they start moving. It's in your head.

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

As any good light pilot knows, speed is the armor of a light mech! Speed and manouverability. With that, the locust has the highest speed on the game, making him the stronger light mech around, and considering it is so tiny now...

It's also the least armored mech and by far. It's speed is all it gots to protect itself. And it's also the mech that can take the least load so less weapons/equipment than any other mech can. But still Ravens and ACHs.

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Again, a NERF on the Locust is needed! Otherwise, the only way to kill a locust is with streaks... Wich will make people use alot of streaks... making people to think that the streaks themselves are OP (wrongly)!

No. The only way you are personnally able to kill a locust is by using streaks(and i'm not even sure about it on your end). It is a limitation of yours. Please don't assume that every body is as bad as you are yourself.

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

Think about it and how the locusts are...

Think about it and how you are yourself. It is great time that you question yourself.

[Lightfoot]

Locust is well balanced as is. No changes needed. I still get killed in mine by Pulse Lasers, Small lasers, auto-cannons, gauss rifles, any LRM salvo, (got killed by one LRM5 salvo the other day as near as I could tell because I had the load-out of the Kintaro that fired it on my HUD. I would rank the current Locust as well below the current Arctic Cheetah in damage and survivability. It is faster but a Cheetah with jump-jets is more agile/evasive. So the Locust is merely a good mech now, nothing more. If the Locust is so great as to need a nerf I think you would see Light mechs taking more than 6% of the PUG cue.

I can't believe some players want a 20 ton mech nerfed. If you strip the armor down you can get 7 tons on it, but adding anything with a medium laser's duration makes you stand still too long so you get one-shotted. That limits it to a few pulse lasers or SRM2's or machine guns.

Locust was a success, but just barely. Removing movement or armor quirks would kill it.

[DemonRaziel]

Maugged basically summed up most of my thoughts, but there are some further points I would like to comment on personally...

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

As such, some light mechs got themselves rescaled acording the tonnage they are. We see some light pilots crying about their mechs (Oxides specially) that now can actually be hit and damage registered.

As opposed to *you* crying about Light 'Mechs? You took this opportunity to ridicule the pilots of light 'Mechs, whose numbers are already dwindling for a long time, due to the class being one of the most difficult to play, then immediately moved on to cry yourself. Have you no shame, sir?

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

As the most ancient players know, light mechs were always the biggest threat on the game, specially to the assault mechs. Every light pilot knows that the best way to destroy an assault is with a light mech (IS light preferably). Now, with the rescale, the most popular light mechs such as the Oxide, firesatarter and spider cant be as powerfull as they once were, due to the fact that those mechs can be hit now.

What are you talking about, really? Light 'Mechs were always the biggest threat? Are you referring to the lagshield era, completely neglecting the nerfs and power creep that have been introduced to the game since?

Also did you just use the words "Spider" and "powerful" in the same sentence? Have you ever seen the hard points on those 'Mechs?

When I realize how people like this are the reason Light 'Mechs are getting nerfed and becoming a dying breed in a game where most of the 'Mechs are trigger happy Heavies and Assaults looking to one-shot anything that moves, it makes me really sad.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Maugged, on 05 July 2016 - 06:11 AM, said:

No it didn't. Light mechs were already the least played because of the advanced skill cap they require to perform decently, now they are even less played than before.



They could be hit and killed before. It's a pebkac here. Not a game problem.


See above. Pebkac. If you couldn't kill a light mech before you must seriously reconsider your own abilities.



That's one of the three playable light mechs post patch, and for the first time of his existance in MWO it's not just a free candy anymore it can actually be a minimum relevant in a fight.


Nope Raven and ACH are much better. You're just focusing on Locusts because they are out of your skill reach when they start moving. It's in your head.


It's also the least armored mech and by far. It's speed is all it gots to protect itself. And it's also the mech that can take the least load so less weapons/equipment than any other mech can. But still Ravens and ACHs.


No. The only way you are personnally able to kill a locust is by using streaks(and i'm not even sure about it on your end). It is a limitation of yours. Please don't assume that every body is as bad as you are yourself.


Think about it and how you are yourself. It is great time that you question yourself.

Youre new on the game, arent you? Or are you one of those IS light fanboys?
Its not a matter of skill, that im quite sure. I do can hit and kill locusts, but they way they are are just ridiculous good! I am a light pilot and i do know how good my Locusts have become!
If you react that agressivly to this post that must mean something, like you know that how OP the Locust have become and youre afraid to get those mechs nerfed

[Jack Spade Ward]

DemonRaziel, on 06 July 2016 - 10:20 AM, said:

Maugged basically summed up most of my thoughts, but there are some further points I would like to comment on personally...


As opposed to *you* crying about Light 'Mechs? You took this opportunity to ridicule the pilots of light 'Mechs, whose numbers are already dwindling for a long time, due to the class being one of the most difficult to play, then immediately moved on to cry yourself. Have you no shame, sir?


What are you talking about, really? Light 'Mechs were always the biggest threat? Are you referring to the lagshield era, completely neglecting the nerfs and power creep that have been introduced to the game since?

Also did you just use the words "Spider" and "powerful" in the same sentence? Have you ever seen the hard points on those 'Mechs?

When I realize how people like this are the reason Light 'Mechs are getting nerfed and becoming a dying breed in a game where most of the 'Mechs are trigger happy Heavies and Assaults looking to one-shot anything that moves, it makes me really sad.

You obviously arent on the game long enough to know that the Spider was, once, the most OP mech on the game! And before that the Raven 3L was, and before that it was the Jenner with 2 streaks and medium lasers (the founder jenner).

If you would be earlier, you would know that light mechs were always in a great position. And as i said earlier, any good light mech pilot knows that the best way to kill an asault is with a light mech.

[Max Von Lakes]

Jack Spade Ward, on 04 July 2016 - 04:32 PM, said:

........With that, the locust has the highest speed on the game......

Second fastest, commando with an XL240 is slightly faster (a massive 2kph)

[DemonRaziel]

Jack Spade Ward, on 06 July 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

You obviously arent on the game long enough to know that the Spider was, once, the most OP mech on the game! And before that the Raven 3L was, and before that it was the Jenner with 2 streaks and medium lasers (the founder jenner).

Nah, that's not the case, I've joined the game 4 months later than you (and, btw, Maugged joined 2 months later than you, according to his profile info). I just don't agree with your assessments.

For example, during the Reign of the 3L era, Spiders were one of their easiest prey, due to Spider's low armor and Raven's ECM+Streaks combo.

And while there was more than enough complaints towards Spiders' survivability in the years of yore, calling the lil guy "the most OP 'Mech" is one hell of a hyperbole in my book, considering the MGs were opossum poo, the 5V had 2 CT mounted hard points and the 5D was the only viable variant, usually run with a single ERPPC or a trio of MPLs, none of which is that much of a threat to game balance compared to gazillion of other builds out there. Unless you consider the ability to jump reaaaaaaaly high and shoot a CT-mounted ERLL OP.

Jack Spade Ward, on 06 July 2016 - 12:13 PM, said:

If you would be earlier, you would know that light mechs were always in a great position. And as i said earlier, any good light mech pilot knows that the best way to kill an asault is with a light mech.

Let's say that was the case at some point in the past.

Now let's fast forward through the HSR, JJ nerf, speed nerf, ECM nerf, introduction of many new 'Mechs capable of boating SSRMs, including Clan 'Mechs boating 4-6tube SSRMs, a buff to SRM hit-reg and, most importantly, the prevalence of high PPFLD that can obliterate low-armor 'Mechs in a single shot. Oh and the recent re-size, of course, has been rather unkind to most of the Lights as well. Going off the top of my head, so feel free to add anything I might have missed.

Now let's look at the Light queues compared to most (all?) others. There's an obvious reason why the queues are the way they are and Lights being OP is not it

Edited by DemonRaziel, 06 July 2016 - 03:38 PM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

DemonRaziel, on 06 July 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

Nah, that's not the case, I've joined the game 4 months later than you (and, btw, Maugged joined 2 months later than you, according to his profile info). I just don't agree with your assessments.

For example, during the Reign of the 3L era, Spiders were one of their easiest prey, due to Spider's low armor and Raven's ECM+Streaks combo.

And while there was more than enough complaints towards Spiders' survivability in the years of yore, calling the lil guy "the most OP 'Mech" is one hell of a hyperbole in my book, considering the MGs were opossum poo, the 5V had 2 CT mounted hard points and the 5D was the only viable variant, usually run with a single ERPPC or a trio of MPLs, none of which is that much of a threat to game balance compared to gazillion of other builds out there. Unless you consider the ability to jump reaaaaaaaly high and shoot a CT-mounted ERLL OP.


Let's say that was the case at some point in the past.

Now let's fast forward through the HSR, JJ nerf, speed nerf, ECM nerf, introduction of many new 'Mechs capable of boating SSRMs, including Clan 'Mechs boating 4-6tube SSRMs, a buff to SRM hit-reg and, most importantly, the prevalence of high PPFLD that can obliterate low-armor 'Mechs in a single shot. Oh and the recent re-size, of course, has been rather unkind to most of the Lights as well. Going off the top of my head, so feel free to add anything I might have missed.

Now let's look at the Light queues compared to most (all?) others. There's an obvious reason why the queues are the way they are and Lights being OP is not it

Please, dont get me wrong, im not saying that Light mechs are easy mechs to play with. As far as i would say, is that Assaults and lights are the most dificult to learn to pilot.

In assaults, battle awareness and positioning is key to survive, knowing that an assault will be the prefered target on the field. If you survive long enough, then you can bear all the massive weaponry on the remaining targets. The learning curve is a hard one.

Piloting lights can be similar, still a light pilot knows that speed, speed and more speed is key to survive. Secondly comes manouverability. But while you keep running, you keep on living. A stalled light mech is a dead one. Also, light mechs suffer from a bonus, they are often left to last and not the preffered target.
The learning curve can be a tough one as well, much like the assaults. A good light pilot knows that he can be used as bait and survive, to get those LRMs mechs and specially the slow moving assaults. He also knows that the best way to kill an assault is with a light mech, and the fastest way to get himself killed is if he gets target by a medium mech, specially those mediums made to hunt lights, like the centurion, trebuchet and stormcrow.

Also, i do not agree with the ACH being the best light. It is good indeed, but even after the rescale, its not as good as the (bigger) oxide. It is still a good mech, but IS light mechs are in a golden position... specially the locusts now.

All in all, i do believe, as a light pilot myself, the light mechs are as what they are suposed to be (generally), scouts, fast hit and run mechs and support to the mediums and heavies. They were never suposed to be front line fighters, and that was exactly what was happening.
The only fault i see now is indeed the Locust. This mech as occupied the power vacuum after the rescale on major light mechs. It is tiny, super fast and delivers a big punch, with almost no armor. But, as i said earlier, a light's armor is its speed...
I do think a nerf to the locusts will come, but until then, ill have fun with these OP tiny mechs
Pirate's Bane is a must, the 1V with its quirks is fun as hell

[Frytrixa]

Locust was and is a glass mech that even a medium mech can alphastrike away...
nothing to complain here

[Maugged]

Jack Spade Ward, on 06 July 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

Youre new on the game, arent you? Or are you one of those IS light fanboys?
Its not a matter of skill, that im quite sure. I do can hit and kill locusts, but they way they are are just ridiculous good! I am a light pilot and i do know how good my Locusts have become!
If you react that agressivly to this post that must mean something, like you know that how OP the Locust have become and youre afraid to get those mechs nerfed

If you had a bit of a brain you would have hovered your mouse above my name and would have noticed that i am a member here since the 11th of september, 2012. You registered in july the same year. At the height of nearly four years of membership 2 months don't make much of a difference.

Second i'm no IS fanboy. I have a strong personnality and i don't feel like i have to pick up a side and be part of a sheep herd. I play wathever i want and your illinformed opinions are irrelevant to me.

But if you want to know my hunchback IICs are some of my favorite mechs, I'm working on eliting my shadowcats and and also busy working on making enough money to buy my 3rd ACH. I do enjoy clan mechs a lot but their price is limiting me. I also have a few other Clan mechs(stormcrow, dire wolf).

Jack Spade Ward, on 06 July 2016 - 04:30 PM, said:

The only fault i see now is indeed the Locust. This mech as occupied the power vacuum after the rescale on major light mechs. It is tiny, super fast and delivers a big punch, with almost no armor. But, as i said earlier, a light's armor is its speed...
I do think a nerf to the locusts will come, but until then, ill have fun with these OP tiny mechs

You did 3 light mechs games. I did 120. You barely touched light mechs.

Light mech stats from the leaderboard.
7822 Jack Spade Ward 173 3 2 1.50 3 0 3.00 3
1715 Maugged 254 107 56 1.91 65 54 1.20 120

Edited by Maugged, 07 July 2016 - 12:36 AM.

[Jack Spade Ward]

Maugged, on 07 July 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

If you had a bit of a brain you would have hovered your mouse above my name and would have noticed that i am a member here since the 11th of september, 2012. You registered in july the same year. At the height of nearly four years of membership 2 months don't make much of a difference.

Second i'm no IS fanboy. I have a strong personnality and i don't feel like i have to pick up a side and be part of a sheep herd. I play wathever i want and your illinformed opinions are irrelevant to me.

But if you want to know my hunchback IICs are some of my favorite mechs, I'm working on eliting my shadowcats and and also busy working on making enough money to buy my 3rd ACH. I do enjoy clan mechs a lot but their price is limiting me. I also have a few other Clan mechs(stormcrow, dire wolf).


You did 3 light mechs games. I did 120. You barely touched light mechs.

Light mech stats from the leaderboard.
7822 Jack Spade Ward 173 3 2 1.50 3 0 3.00 3
1715 Maugged 254 107 56 1.91 65 54 1.20 120

I didnt see your forum profile, but then again, why would i? You answered me very, very agressevelly, as such, you wont have any consideration from my part.
And please, i do have 200 mechs, all of them mastered! I do have 52 light mechs. I do KNOW what lights and light tactics are all about.
As a light dedicated pilot, i do know what light mechs can do! And i dont believe about those mechs being front line fighters! Specially against heavy mechs and assaults! Its all about roles, and light mechs in this particular mech game are uber powered! I know this, you know this and the most ancient players also knows that!

[DemonRaziel]

Jack Spade Ward, on 08 July 2016 - 08:43 AM, said:

light mechs in this particular mech game are uber powered! I know this, you know this and the most ancient players also knows that!

No, that is not really a fact, merely an opinion.

And I do not believe that many of the "most ancient players" share this opinion.

Unless, of course, you expect them not to be very good at all in anything but dying, in which case I can see how you would see them as "uber powered".

You're placing yourself to the role, where you speak for all the experienced veteran players, with claims like "Spider was once the most OP 'Mech" and "Lights are uber powered". Yet, many veteran players believe that light 'Mechs are the ones with the steepest learning curve, where one mistake can easily mean game over, since they lack the armor to compensate for a piloting mistake, poor positioning or a random lucky shot going their way.

Clearly we can argue all day all night and it looks like none of us will change his position on this matter, likely based on personal experience and expectations on these 'Mechs' performance.

[Dee Eight]

One of the fundamental problems to the adaptation of a tabletop game with defined movement rules to a FPS game, is that they abandon the original movement rules. In Battletech, simply changing the direction a mech was moving 60 degrees left or right required expending a movement point. For a locust to run around a warhammer, it needs to travel 6 MP to complete the revolution (since the original map system used hexes) and 6 more for the turns, which is all its MPs btw (for a stock 20 ton 160 engine locust executing a run). A warhammer however, turning in place at a run, could match the movement of that locust around itself . If the locust ended its movement facing the front arc of that warhammer... it could end up being the recepient of a kick attack, which does 1 point for every 5 tons of attacking mech weight... which in the case of that warhammer would be 14 pts... and it would strike one of the locust's legs... an atlas would kick with enough force to completely remove a locust's leg.

Edited by Dee Eight, 08 July 2016 - 10:47 AM.

[Kadreal]

I don't see the problem with not perfectly modeling all of the tabletop mechanics. Many of them don't translate well to a game like MWO.

For example, in TT mechs had a battlevalue, so it made sense that a light mech couldn't solo an atlas. The Atlas cost way more. There is no room for such a system in this game. If heavier mechs were just better in this game, mediums and especially light would be nearly extinct since playing them would amount to being an easy kill to heavy and assault players. I think most players don't want this devolving into a game of Assaults with a few heavies mixed in.

With this is mind, you have to realize that each mech, regardless of its tonnage, should be approximately equal in combat capability, not necessarily in a given combat scenario, but as a combat unit in general.

Considering that the light mech queue seems to run at the lowest percentages compared to the other queues, this says to me that they are either underpowered, or too hard to play. While the Locust may be one of the most played mechs for lights, it doesn't make sense to nerf it when lights on average are already making a weak showing. A better idea would be to buff some of the under performing lights so that people who want to play lights aren't pigeonholed into 2 or 3 mechs in order to be able to compete.

[Dee Eight]

Actually battlevalues only applied in Battleforce rules....ie, massive campaigns. They had no bearing on mech on mech combat.

[Dee Eight]

Maugged, on 07 July 2016 - 12:33 AM, said:

You did 3 light mechs games. I did 120. You barely touched light mechs.

You're not very bright are you? The leaderboard only tracks stats since it was created, which for the quick play board was only 3 weeks ago. And what one player has done in the past 3 weeks has little bearing on what they've done in the past four years. I've played 321 games since the board was created, 63 of them in lights. In just a few days over 7 months I've shot past 4700 total games already.

Wins / Losses 2,167 / 2,569

[DemonRaziel]

Dee Eight, on 09 July 2016 - 01:34 AM, said:

You're not very bright are you? The leaderboard only tracks stats since it was created, which for the quick play board was only 3 weeks ago.

You may not realize he was pointing out the amount of matches post re-scale, for which the leaderboard is a perfect indicator, since the features were both introduced at the same time

[Maugged]

DemonRaziel, on 09 July 2016 - 02:55 AM, said:

You may not realize he was pointing out the amount of matches post re-scale, for which the leaderboard is a perfect indicator, since the features were both introduced at the same time

I would also add that i was quoting a part where Jack claims he's having fun with the tiny OP mechs and plan to carry on having fun with them while the leaderboard indicates he only has played 3 light mechs game since the patch. How can someone keep on having fun with the tiny OP mechs while he's actually not even playing that class at all? He can't.