42 replies to this topic

[Felio]

I don't care what the loot chances are. I'm not paying for a chance at what I want, and I'm not incentivizing it either.

[Malleus011]

Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math.

[KHETTI]

Yeah have had experience with loot crates in a game called Stalker zone Online, you could get a unique set of armor( it was actually the best armor in the game and came in 10 parts) from loot crates only.
The experience of opening hundreds of crates and getting nothing i could actual use or want, and watching others open 10 in a row and get a armor piece in each one put me off ever gambling on loot crates again.
No thx, i will by decals instead lol.

[C E Dwyer]

Zoeff, on 19 July 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

I don't think it's going to be possible to use this to farm premium time, what you get from what you can see inside the crate is random and doesn't have to contain a premium time item to begin with. It's also just one crate that gets sent out every game to a random person on the winning team. I think I'll probably sell them unless I happen to get a crate where the majority of the items inside are interesting to me personally.

Agreed

First off you have to win the match that takes luck and team work, Q.P sorely lacks the team work part, also doesn't mention that its the player with the highest match score either, just a person from the winning team.

Trying to put some positive spin on a concept I loath, we can hope that these things bring into the game more team work.

However if its discovered that match score does in fact determine the drop, I see more bile and toxic behaviour in QP and more selfish play.

I guess finger crossed

[TWIAFU]

Malleus011, on 19 July 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

Gambling is a tax on people who are bad at math.

Thankfully, people who are smart can easily see this is not gambling.

[jonfett]

Zoeff, on 19 July 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

I don't think it's going to be possible to use this to farm premium time, what you get from what you can see inside the crate is random and doesn't have to contain a premium time item to begin with. It's also just one crate that gets sent out every game to a random person on the winning team. I think I'll probably sell them unless I happen to get a crate where the majority of the items inside are interesting to me personally.

Careful there, you are sounding a little too anti-promotional to this wonderful new in-game experience that the all-powerful all-knowing PGI/IGP is giving us. You remember what happaned to the last guys right?

[Malleus011]

TWIAFU, on 19 July 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Thankfully, people who are smart can easily see this is not gambling.

Oh? Tell us how buying a chance to get a random item isn't gambling.

[1453 R]

SilentScreamer, on 19 July 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

Completely agree. I see nothing in the posts of Supply Cache that say there is a equal chance to get any particular item.

"Each Supply Cache can be inspected before opening to see what is contained within. Players will then have the ability to purchase a Supply Cache Key using MC to unlock the Supply Cache. Once a Supply Cache has been unlocked, a random selection of the Supply Cache contents will be awarded to the player; the rest of the items are destroyed. Alternatively, unopened Supply Caches can instead be sold off for C-Bills."

So if there is a Mech, some MC and a Flamer...is it a 33% chance of each when you open the cache or is there some other formula for determining what the player actually receives?

Rewards are weighted based on overall value - in your given example of "'Mech, MC, Flamer", the Flamer would have a much higher chance of rolling than would the MC< which would in turn have a much higher chance of rolling than the 'Mech.

What it seems like from the patch notes, however, is that Piranha is trying to balance Supply Crate drops such that selling the random junk you get from them is still more profitable per point of MC spent than buying C-bills with MC. Whether the profitability is better than the 50k straight C-bills from selling the box depends on the odds of getting something worth more than 50k C-bills from the box. Given the way they're trying to set this up, I'd figure those odds would actually be reasonable - they want people to buy keys and open the boxes, not just pawn them for C-bills. The 50k C-bills is basically a convenience fee - it's reasonably likely that on average, opening the thing and selling what you get would be worth more than the 50k C-bills because otherwise it makes no sense to ever open the crates.

Whether that means anyone's ever going to open the things is another question, of course. Keys cost very little (FINALLY, an actual MICRO transaction in our MTX-fueled game!), and crates are not going to be very common (you have, on oversimplified average, a 1 in 24 chance of getting the box per match played, given a 50/50 W/L rate), so it may well not really be much of a big deal to buy a few keys for on-a-lark box openings.

On the other hand, you could save your MC for stuff you actually want and not a soul'd blame ya. Especially if Piranha starts selling the crates for MC, as well as the keys. In that instance they can just screw right on off, but fortunately they seem to've figured that out for themselves.

[Grimm Peaper]

Malleus011, on 19 July 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

Oh? Tell us how buying a chance to get a random item isn't gambling.

If this was considered gambling, it would have to regulated as such with a bunch of warnings and also, they would have to exclude children because children are not allowed to gamble.



I can see it now. Russ and Bombadil posts videos of them winning big at supply crates while not disclosing they are employees or they pay youtube/twitch streamers to stream them opening crates and winning big.

I'm assuming the reason it's not gambling because you can't win money, only in game items. Although I kinda wonder about winning MC because that is effectively a currency that can only be bought with money. I imagine PGI lawyers have already worked this out, because if they haven't, some angry parent is going to sue them for underage gambling. Maybe someone will make a way to convert it to money though.

https://www.vg247.co...g-illegal-suit/

[Lorian Sunrider]

Gambling to me implies that you lose your investment, in this case it could be argued you always get something worth 6 cents.

Just my opinion anyways, not a court of law obviously.

[Malleus011]

While it may fall short of the legal definition of gambling, paying real money for a chance at getting what you want is gambling in the sense that you have no assurance of the RNG giving you the result you want. Kids can put a coin in the claw machine to try and get the stuffed animal of their choice, but the result isn't guaranteed.

[TWIAFU]

Malleus011, on 19 July 2016 - 11:22 AM, said:

Oh? Tell us how buying a chance to get a random item isn't gambling.

Easy, you risk loosing nothing. You ALWAYS get something.

For it to be gambling there must be a risk of loss.

Plus, you know, the slight fact they actually give you, for free, the means to open them via Events.

[kf envy]

Grimm Peaper, on 19 July 2016 - 02:34 AM, said:

At 9 cents to open a supply cache, and given that you don't have to open them right away, the supply cache seems to be the cheapest way to get short term premium time. Hell, 7 days costs $6. Save a couple for double xp weekends and open them as needed.

Don't look a gift horse in the mouth guys.

ya that premium time is just a carrot on a stick maybe after you drop $12+ of MC you may get that 7 day premium time. whales must be be buying mech packs so there trying to milk more money out of players.

[Revis Volek]

Agent1190, on 19 July 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

Is it a gamble though? You don't buy a key pre-match on the hopes you get the supply-cache, and you can see what's in the box before committing any MC to opening it. There's no risk, only reward if you choose to open it.

No gurantee you actually get whats in the box though.

[TWIAFU]

Malleus011, on 19 July 2016 - 01:37 PM, said:

While it may fall short of the legal definition of gambling, paying real money for a chance at getting what you want is gambling in the sense that you have no assurance of the RNG giving you the result you want. Kids can put a coin in the claw machine to try and get the stuffed animal of their choice, but the result isn't guaranteed.

Hehe, then by your "sense", you should never buy mechs because you are paying real money for a chance at getting what you want, a win or fun, with no assurance you will be given the result you want.

Revis Volek, on 19 July 2016 - 01:53 PM, said:

No gurantee you actually get whats in the box though.

What?

Where do you read that or just making sh*t up?

Don't answer, your making sh*t up.

"Once a Supply Cache has been unlocked, a random selection of the Supply Cache contents will be awarded to the player; the rest of the items are destroyed. Alternatively, unopened Supply Caches can instead be sold off for C-Bills."

[Kubernetes]

I got one and sold it.

There are eight potential prizes in the chest. The most valuable was a day of Prem Time, but it had items like a sensor range module and a ten-pack of Advanced UAVs.

I pretty much only buy mechbays with my MC nowadays, so I prob won't open a cache unless there's a chance for a mech/mechbay.

[Grimm Peaper]

TWIAFU, on 19 July 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

Hehe, then by your "sense", you should never buy mechs because you are paying real money for a chance at getting what you want, a win or fun, with no assurance you will be given the result you want.




What?

Where do you read that or just making sh*t up?

Don't answer, your making sh*t up.

"Once a Supply Cache has been unlocked, a random selection of the Supply Cache contents will be awarded to the player; the rest of the items are destroyed. Alternatively, unopened Supply Caches can instead be sold off for C-Bills."

If a crate has 8 items listed, then you will get only 1 of the 8 items listed when it opens. You don't get all 8.

There is also really no guarantee it is really "random". I played an IOS game once where you bought packs and opened them up for a "random" prize. However, if you cheated and backed up your save before you opened them and then you could open them to see what they gave you "randomly" and then restored your save file and open it again, and lo and behold, they always gave the same prize no matter how many times you tried. The opening process wasn't random at all. As soon as they assigned the pack/crate to you, it was pre-determined what it really had in it. It only gave you the illusion that it was randomly determined when you clicked on open to give you that "gambling thrill" but it was really all rigged from the start.

Slot machines will sucker you in by showing you near wins whenever you lose to give you that feeling that you almost won. It is to subconsciously get you thinking "I was so close, maybe if I try one more time I will get it next time". Gambling systems are carefully designed to keep you gambling. Why do you think the cost is so low? 9 cents? It's to make it so cheap that you can make it into a habit without much thought. Once it's a habit, that's where they make their money.

PGI could easily throw in a mechbay, mech and premium time into every single crate as a possible reward and set the actual chance so abysmally low that you'd have a better chance at winning the lotto and you'd never know it. You could simply chalk it up as bad luck. Nowhere does it say the chance to win any item in the crate is an equal chance. It could be .00000000000000000000000001% chance for the mech and 99.5% for the flamer. The devil is in the details.

[Kubernetes]

You make a good point, Grimm. I was assuming that there's a 1/8 chance at each prize, which would make 25MC a reasonable gamble for a mechbay. I'll hold off until we know more.

Btw I just got a crate with a Shadowcat Prime Right Torso Omnipod. So random.

[JC Daxion]

Malleus011, on 19 July 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

Why would I gamble for junk instead of just buy what I want?

Because the way it was explained that opening the crate will give you money money value than just selling it, especially if it is one of the better crates.


So yes, it is like cheap premium time, or premium time for casual players.. Spend a few bucks, get a bunch of keys, and get bonus items.. Works for me



My only issue iwth the crate system is, it should be a players choice, OR at least flagged as a clan or IS crate.. Personally i think the player should get a choice of what kinda crate they want to open, as many have either a clan or IS only account.. Yes you can choose to open or sell, but i'd rather just open the crates i know that have items that i could possibly use on my account, verse never would bother.

Edited by JC Daxion, 19 July 2016 - 04:11 PM.

[Kubernetes]

JC Daxion, on 19 July 2016 - 04:09 PM, said:

Because the way it was explained that opening the crate will give you money money value than just selling it, especially if it is one of the better crates.

The issue is that a lot of players will only spend MC on MC-only items, like mechbays or heroes. I wouldn't spend 25 MC for an SRM6 or a ten-pack of UAVs, no matter how advantageous the cbill exchange rate.