39 replies to this topic

[Paigan]

GreyNovember, on 19 July 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

[...]
TLDR: Why you make our 35 tonners have bigger movement profile, AND make us bigger. WTF guys.

Because
Volume = Mass / Density
?

(mass is a given, density is assumed to be equal for all mechs. Voila: the resulting volume and in the end height)

PS:
And because that is MUCH more correct and fair than saying "Ahh... look at that guy ... let's make him ... uhm ... THAT high" on an artistic level.

Edited by Paigan, 19 July 2016 - 06:01 AM.

[El Bandito]

GreyNovember, on 19 July 2016 - 04:31 AM, said:

ARE LIGHTS NOT ALLOWED TO BE CLOSE RANGED FIGHTERS OR SOMETHING?

Of course Lights are allowed to be close range fighters--against other Lights. As long as instant pinpoint convergence is allowed in MWO, Lights will not 1v1 heavier chassis without getting the drop on it.

Edited by El Bandito, 19 July 2016 - 06:03 AM.

[Mekwarrior]

That's fine if you have a streak light like the MC ones, if not there's no point playing, just to loose every time you run into one.

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 06:04 AM.

[Weeny Machine]

El Bandito, on 19 July 2016 - 06:02 AM, said:

Of course Lights are allowed to be close range fighters--against other Lights. As long as instant pinpoint convergence is allowed in MWO, Lights will not 1v1 heavier chassis without getting the drop on it.

And exactly this is problematic in a game where it boils down to: kill all enemy mechs.

There is (outside of FW) no drawback either to choose more tonnage. So there is no incentive besides being the weirdo who likes to be the underdog

Edited by Bush Hopper, 19 July 2016 - 06:07 AM.

[Mekwarrior]

The OP is right, there seems to be a strong agenda to prevent lights from playing in any medium or close range role.

[dario03]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 06:15 AM, said:

The OP is right, there seems to be a strong agenda to prevent lights from playing in any medium or close range role.

It just seems like it because that is what was nerfed the most. But don't be mistaken the anti-light crowd doesn't actually want lights to not be able to fight at medium or close range. They want them to not be able to fight at medium, close, or long range, or be able to run from the bigger mechs.

[Darian DelFord]

With the Re-scale patch, it completely shifted what a Jenner Firestarter or Wolf Hound could equip.

With all three mechs getting much larger and easier to hit added in with the reduced turning ability due to the new size, trying to knife fight with SPL's is now suicide.

Add into that equation the over inflated agility quirks on most heavy and assault mechs and it just drives a dagger through the heart of light mechs.

Prior to the Re-scale the SPL builds were very effective at taking out a lone assault. However if you get within that range now you are toast. The size hit those mechs the hardest with 0 defensive attributes given. Now will this patch help the Jenners... amy be a little,.... but not enough. The poor Wolf Hound and FS were just left in the dust.

Light mechs are SUPPOSE to be able to take out lone assault mechs. However this has not been the case for a long time, due to the twisting ability and agility buffs for that class with the exception of a very few mechs namely the DW and Stalker.

Personally I feel that the removal of these mechs from being able to carry SPL's and moving them into the Mid range with ML's is absolutely abhorrent. The further away a light mech is.... the easier it is to hit it.

The more and more I play... the more and more I agree with Bishop in regards to resetting ALL quirks to 0 see how it plays out for a month and then gradually quirk where needed. The fact that a 100 ton mech can face his rear arc in less than 2 seconds is just abhorrent.

[ScarecrowES]

Bush Hopper, on 19 July 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

Did you come to that conclusion after your first or second match you played in your light mech since the rescale?
I seriously wonder how many you had had played before the patch

Second chassis I ever purchased was the Raven. The 3rd was the Jenner.

I cut my teeth in MWO mastering lights. That was well BEFORE the Jenner got improved hitboxes.

The only people who ever complained about lights are people who either suck at playing with them or against them.

For real light pilots, the size of our mech is irrelevant. If we're playing properly, we're not putting ourselves in positions where you can shoot us.

I hear a lot of people talking about brawling in lights. We should be clear... you can't "brawl" in a light mech. They lack any capability to brawl. If you're even attempting to slug it out in a light mech, youre doing it wrong.

[Darian DelFord]

ScarecrowES, on 19 July 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

I cut my teeth in MWO mastering lights. That was well BEFORE the Jenner got improved hitboxes.

For real light pilots, the size of our mech is irrelevant. If we're playing properly, we're not putting ourselves in positions where you can shoot us.

I hear a lot of people talking about brawling in lights. We should be clear... you can't "brawl" in a light mech. They lack any capability to brawl. If you're even attempting to slug it out in a light mech, youre doing it wrong.

Lets just be clear..... the Jenner Hit Boxes have never been "improved" When they changed the hit boxes to the ST's they effectively nerfed the Jenner's ability to mount other options. The ST's were rarely hit back in the day. Howevever due to the Jenner's profile you can now easily be one shot through either ST or CT, when prior to the change it was only your CT you had to worry about.

Even with the changes and now after the Re-scale the CT is really the only thing being taken out.

The size of the mech is in fact relevant. Prior to today's patch the locust could quite literally be under your weapon mounts and you could not see the bugger. With the 35 ton mechs getting up to 25% larger size does play in how you get hit. The nose of the Jenner sticks out a bit further behind obstacles more in order for it to get a corner shot off. Also while trying to evade it is much easier to hit due to its increased size.

This is the one thing the Jenner did not need.... it is already arguably the easiest mech to CT in the game.

People use the term brawl incorrectly. A brawl is an in your face duke fest, which as you say is wrong for a light to do with a heavier mech the light should lose.

However a Light also has to have the ability to stay BEHIND its target to win the fight. Currently with the obscene agility quirks that the heavier mechs have this is damn near impossible. And part of my issue with the Jenner specifically since the re-scale. It has completely negated the SL and SPL buils on ALL Jenners. thereby seriously reducing our ability to be able to knife fight.

Most lights are now reduced to being your typical poke mechs with ML's. THis should not be the case. If there is a lone assault out there... it should lose to any competent light mech. However that is now a rarity with the buffs given to assaults and nerfs to the lights.

[Pariah Devalis]

ScarecrowES, on 19 July 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

For real light pilots, the size of our mech is irrelevant. If we're playing properly, we're not putting ourselves in positions where you can shoot us.

....even if we are not actively in a light mech. Light mechs make great training platforms because they force you to learn good habits. Or die. Violently. Seeing all these light mechs with gutted minimally viable jump jets makes me sad. Piloting lights is for the speed, the maneuverability, and the trolliness of it all. Being able to rapidly change directions due to jump jet tricks, or stay in an assault mech's blind spot, or to hit and fade before the enemy knows what happened.... The adrenaline rush is where it's at!

[Weeny Machine]

ScarecrowES, on 19 July 2016 - 08:07 AM, said:

Second chassis I ever purchased was the Raven. The 3rd was the Jenner.

I cut my teeth in MWO mastering lights. That was well BEFORE the Jenner got improved hitboxes.

The only people who ever complained about lights are people who either suck at playing with them or against them.

For real light pilots, the size of our mech is irrelevant. If we're playing properly, we're not putting ourselves in positions where you can shoot us.

I hear a lot of people talking about brawling in lights. We should be clear... you can't "brawl" in a light mech. They lack any capability to brawl. If you're even attempting to slug it out in a light mech, youre doing it wrong.

I love this kind of kindergarten logic: if you complain, you suck. Followed by the implicature "I do not complain, so I do not suck." to put the cherry on the top of the cake.

Honestly, such pseudo causal relations you try to establish make you look dumb and immature. Especially with two matches after re-scale and putting yourself on the "professional" side /sigh

[Mekwarrior]

Lights have been driven from the game. Some light pilots may still be playing as other weight classes but many may not. But if lights are kept out of the game forever many of these players will probably leave after a while.

[GreyNovember]

Mekwarrior, on 19 July 2016 - 09:15 PM, said:

Lights have been driven from the game. Some light pilots may still be playing as other weight classes but many may not. But if lights are kept out of the game forever many of these players will probably leave after a while.

No, they haven't.

I still run around in a 6x6 JIIC, or a 3LL Urbie.

But it feels terrible that I can't play the rapid close range DPS light anymore when compared to these two. The Urbie is grossly heat ineffecient and vulnerable to anything and everything up close; and the Jenner feels like I'm cheesing the game.

Trying to do a 8SPL FS9A just ends up getting me punished for daring to get that close and dogfight, and it doesn't do nearly enough to make assaults afraid.

[Mekwarrior]

It is clear from the comments on here by the light haters that they are not interested in any kind of balance or gameplay improvement to the game, there agenda is simply to remove lights from the game.

This is the agenda PGI seems to be pushing strongly. With a the only exceptions being newer heavy slow "lights".

Edited by Mekwarrior, 19 July 2016 - 09:27 PM.

[JediPanther]

Lights are what other games call hard mode or extreme. Always one good alpha way from death. Even being a light pilot myself I constantly switch between my lights running the urb to spider. Ran the jenner f today and it was like it has always been. A giant ct on legs. Do you want to know which method killed it the most? Did you guess coring out the ct? Or shooting off the leg?

I've had to adjust my method of running it by being more selective of my targets and disengaging when I use to keep fighting. A lot of people simply point and shoot expecting us to explode. What nearly always kills me? It's another enemy I didn't see coming to help the enemy I'm actively fighting. Simply put many people just don't know to combat lights very effectively.

The medium class and above just think their high alpha will instantly kill a light and in most cases and circumstances it does provided that light is one of three things:

Unaware of the enemy mech about to alpha it.
Already heavily damaged or over heated forced into shut down.
The light is stationary giving the enemy time to aim.

Being a light pilot also means learning the weakest parts of mechs to do the most damage we can and avoid as much return fire as possible. I've had many pilots cuss me out saying I cheated etc for killing them "so fast." I've learned as many others have where you are most likely to have gimped yourself on armor thus I aim there as much and as often as I can.

As for all the mobility and speed nerfs they do suck. Imagine all the light pilots crying here and pgi adding more and more cool down time to every mech class except lights. Remember all the negative quirks claners had? Imagine them on all mechs except for light class.

From my stats lights are not dead. The dedicated light pilots adapt and get better. The mech I hate the most when I'm in my light is another enemy light. I know either I'm going to destroy it,be destroyed or at best fight it off and be heavily damaged.
JENNER JR7-D 478 214 248 0.86 272 299 0.91 78,021 388,713
JENNER JR7-F 115 62 50 1.24 94 59 1.59 25,151 122,168
JENNER JR7-K 67 35 30 1.17 47 41 1.15 10,853 60,961
LOCUST LCT-1E 284 133 147 0.90 201 173 1.16 49,517 234,016
PIRATES' BANE 168 78 80 0.98 85 97 0.88 26,379 152,005
EMBER 181 93 83 1.12 177 111 1.59 44,755 190,451
FIRESTARTER FS9-S 56 30 25 1.20 21 37 0.57 5,975 35,781
PANTHER PNT-10P 69 42 26 1.62 45 42 1.07 14,915 65,600

[Mekwarrior]

Classic inner sphere lights are practically gone from the game except for a few rare exceptions, usually super hardcore players, as you said.

When MWO first came out they said lights were going to be more a part of the game that it wasn't just a rush to the heavier proper mechs. But that's what it is now.

[Gattsus]

I love my lights, commandos, lolcusts, spiders, myst lynxs, badders and ktfs

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Lights the Jeeps, and Humvees of the Battle Tech Universe , thats the Role , thats not Simple Fighters with mechskin ,thats Vehicle with special Role in asymetric warfare ,the "Hollander" is only Build around the only Weapon ,a Gauss ,nothing other role ,as a fast Sniperplatform with Low Price for War..Lights perfect against infantry,Policeoperations,Raids, against light fast vehicles ,all role what has nothing doing with MWO

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 19 July 2016 - 11:51 PM.

[wolf74]

Bush Hopper, on 19 July 2016 - 06:05 AM, said:

And exactly this is problematic in a game where it boils down to: kill all enemy mechs.

There is (outside of FW) no drawback either to choose more tonnage. So there is no incentive besides being the weirdo who likes to be the underdog

But I like being the Weirdo Underdog with a Std 60 Engine AC/20 UrbanMech (from a UrbanMech game today 7/20/2016)

[LordNothing]

im so glad there are only 5 light varients i havent mastered yet (not counting omnis because they are interchangeable).