137 replies to this topic

[1453 R]

Paul Inouye, on 20 July 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Problem has been resolved. It's going through testing right now. But I cannot say at this point if it will make a hotfix or not. If there is a hotfix, the notification that will be sent out will include if this is part of it or not.

Some clarity: Hotfixes are meant to fix a newly introduced bug or feature breakage. This particular issue (UACs) is more of a "this system has been broken for a long time and now we may have fixed it but it's a far reaching fix beyond just that singular weapon". Normally, unless we were reallllly certain that there are no knock on effects, we would hold this type of fix until next patch. But I've been reviewing this particular fix with the engineers and we are very confident in the change. Keep an eye out for an announcement if we are going to hotfix this.

Thanks for your patience.

Thanks for the quick investigation on this one, Paul. Nice to see the team poking their head up and catching things like this.

[Gas Guzzler]

Lorian Sunrider, on 21 July 2016 - 11:36 AM, said:

Has the hotfix gone live yet?

This is about how many UAC10s it takes to trigger ghost heat.

Smurfy and the game says its 3, Paul says it should be 4. I agree with Paul!!!

[Deathlike]

I'll believe it when I see it... soon.

[Colonel ONeill]

Even tho Ghostheat on UAC10s is set to more than two cannons right now, it might be good to set it to more than three in the future.

[Paul Inouye]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 July 2016 - 11:47 AM, said:

This is about how many UAC10s it takes to trigger ghost heat. Smurfy and the game says its 3, Paul says it should be 4. I agree with Paul!!!

Doh! My bad. The variable is set to 3. (Long day yesterday) Essentially this number is where heat penalties kick in. Firing 3 = heat penalty. Firing 2 = no heat penalty. It's like how the value for medium lasers is set to 7. You can fire 6 free of heat penalty (like the Hunchback 6-pack shoulder pod). Fire 7 and heat penalties start to kick in.

[Paul Inouye]

Antares102, on 21 July 2016 - 11:28 AM, said:

Night Gyr is not fine right now. Just tested heat of 2xUAC10 and 3xUAC10. Smurfy is right you get ghost heat for 3xUAC10. Fireing 2xUAC10 pushes you up to 7% heat Fireing 3xUAC10 pushes you up to 25% heat (no double-tapping with 16 DHS on KDK-3 on Forest Colony) If there was no Ghost Heat 3xUAC10 should move you up to something like 10-11% heat only

You are correct. That was my bad. As I said in the above post.. yesterday was a lonnng day for me. The value of minheatpenaltylevel is 3. My brain was thinking 4 because I was investigating the C-UAC5 at the same time to make sure the fix for C-UAC's in general is working across the board.

heatpenalty="15.0" minheatpenaltylevel="3" < directly from the XML

heatpenalty is the multiplier to heat when firing over minheatpenaltylevel - 1. i.e. Firing 3 or more will kick in heat scale and that scale is multiplied by 15.

[1453 R]

Paul Inouye, on 21 July 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

heatpenalty is the multiplier to heat when firing over minheatpenaltylevel - 1. i.e. Firing 3 or more will kick in heat scale and that scale is multiplied by 15.

So what you actually mean is that if/when the Kraken finds its way in the game and some poor glorious B33f stuffs five or six Quack/10s on it, the exponential heat penalty on those is going to put the DireStar to absolute shame. You'll be able to see the heat bloom on that thing in your thermal scopes from an entirely separate map in an entirely separate game. Just like they'll be able to find pieces of Sean's Cicada on entirely separate maps in entirely separate games after B33f gets done firing that one ridiculous shot.

That's about the size of it, right?

[Antares102]

Paul Inouye, on 21 July 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

You are correct. That was my bad. ...

Sure, no problem, at least we know now it's not a bug
Thank you !

[Remover of Obstacles]

Paul Inouye, on 21 July 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

That Night Gyr is fine.

How do we go about getting a refund for pre-orders for that Night Gyr?

[Remover of Obstacles]

1453 R, on 21 July 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

So what you actually mean is that if/when the Kraken finds its way in the game and some poor glorious B33f stuffs five or six Quack/10s on it, the exponential heat penalty on those is going to put the DireStar to absolute shame. You'll be able to see the heat bloom on that thing in your thermal scopes from an entirely separate map in an entirely separate game. Just like they'll be able to find pieces of Sean's Cicada on entirely separate maps in entirely separate games after B33f gets done firing that one ridiculous shot.

That's about the size of it, right?

Why would you do that when you can just use three UAC20s and have way less ghost heat and save 3 ballistic slots and like 24 tons!?

But if you want to have a 60 damage alpha (or more) that you can actually use multiple times and with about the same spread/burn time, there a lot of easier ways to get it.

You may want to look at IS PPC/Pulse Laser boats. Much easier to manage and they have some pretty nicely quirked structure buffs in the heavies and assaults.

Hell, you can run a BJ-1X with structure, heat and range quirks at 108.4 kph and have an alpha in the 50's.

[1453 R]

Remover of Obstacles, on 21 July 2016 - 02:41 PM, said:

Why would you do that when you can just use three UAC20s and have way less ghost heat and save 3 ballistic slots and like 24 tons!?

But if you want to have a 60 damage alpha (or more) that you can actually use multiple times and with about the same spread/burn time, there a lot of easier ways to get it.

You may want to look at IS PPC/Pulse Laser boats. Much easier to manage and they have some pretty nicely quirked structure buffs in the heavies and assaults.

Hell, you can run a BJ-1X with structure, heat and range quirks at 108.4 kph and have an alpha in the 50's.

Point: Missed.

[Remover of Obstacles]

1453 R, on 21 July 2016 - 02:46 PM, said:

Point: Missed.

Sorry for completely missing the point, spending too much time in the mechlab today trying to figure out why they went overboard on the 15 ghost heat factor.

By the way absolutely, totally agree that the old ghost heat was too light before. I am not convinced that (3) uac10s requires a 90% ghost heat penalty (or 180% for 4), but that must be what the playtesting group found when they did matches head to head against King Crabs with 4xUAC5s and LLs, Mauler dakka builds, Dire Wolf UAC5s or other popular Assault Mech builds. No way they would have done such a drastic nerf without significant testing.


(1) uac20 and (1) uac10
30 damage
10 heat
2 ballistic hard points
22 tons

(3) uac10s
17.10 heat
30 damage
3 ballistic hard points
30 tons

[1453 R]

Remover of Obstacles, on 21 July 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

Sorry for completely missing the point, spending too much time in the mechlab today trying to figure out why they went overboard on the 15 ghost heat factor.

By the way absolutely, totally agree that the old ghost heat was too light before. I am not convinced that (3) uac10s requires a 90% ghost heat penalty (or 180% for 4), but that must be what the playtesting group found when they did matches head to head against King Crabs with 4xUAC5s and LLs, Mauler dakka builds, Dire Wolf UAC5s or other popular Assault Mech builds. No way they would have done such a drastic nerf without significant testing.


(1) uac20 and (1) uac10
30 damage
10 heat
2 ballistic hard points
22 tons

(3) uac10s
17.10 heat
30 damage
3 ballistic hard points
30 tons

Still sorta missing the point...heh, but better.

What you're forgetting, by the way, is that 3 cUAC/10s havebetter range, better shot velocity, shorter burst times, and significantly better overall DPS than a Quack/10 + Quack/20 combination, on top of unified weapon characteristics (no mismatched shot placement between the 10 and the 20). There's a very good reason the ol' KDK-3 Bad Touch Bear uses quad Quack/10 or double 10s and double 5s, rather than two 10s and a 20.

[Remover of Obstacles]

1453 R, on 21 July 2016 - 03:55 PM, said:

Still sorta missing the point...heh, but better.

What you're forgetting, by the way, is that 3 cUAC/10s havebetter range, better shot velocity, shorter burst times, and significantly better overall DPS than a Quack/10 + Quack/20 combination, on top of unified weapon characteristics (no mismatched shot placement between the 10 and the 20). There's a very good reason the ol' KDK-3 Bad Touch Bear uses quad Quack/10 or double 10s and double 5s, rather than two 10s and a 20.

Good, valid points and that definitely need to be considered, but I don't see the ratios of velocity and range matching up with the penalties. Just my opinion, I am need to do some more build testing.

[MischiefSC]

Paul Inouye, on 19 July 2016 - 03:32 PM, said:

Looking into this.

Just remember, the only change made to the C-UAC10 is the amount of extra heat generated through HeatScale. That being said, if the double tap is now registering extra heat, that is a bug and will be fixed asap. It could have been the case all along, just that the C-UAC10 wasn't spiking heat like it is now. Either way... being actively investigated.

Genuinely and sincerely. Thank you for responding to this in the thread. It makes us feel heard when we have a problem. Also increases confidence in a timely fix.

[Pjwned]

Paul Inouye, on 20 July 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

Problem has been resolved. It's going through testing right now. But I cannot say at this point if it will make a hotfix or not. If there is a hotfix, the notification that will be sent out will include if this is part of it or not.

Some clarity: Hotfixes are meant to fix a newly introduced bug or feature breakage. This particular issue (UACs) is more of a "this system has been broken for a long time and now we may have fixed it but it's a far reaching fix beyond just that singular weapon". Normally, unless we were reallllly certain that there are no knock on effects, we would hold this type of fix until next patch. But I've been reviewing this particular fix with the engineers and we are very confident in the change. Keep an eye out for an announcement if we are going to hotfix this.

Thanks for your patience.

Wasn't the issue only really prevalent after the previous patch on Tuesday which messed with the ghost heat values? I understand your point about hotfixes, but I would think it's more appropriate than not to deploy a hotfix when the issue only really came to light after something else was changed in a patch a few days earlier.

Not to ***** up a storm (on this topic at least) since you said you probably do want to hotfix it, but I would think in a case like this a hotfix does make more sense than not even considering the potential drawbacks. If it happened to be the case that nothing changed and you found a bug that wasn't causing any real issues at the moment then yeah it would make more sense to fix it with the next patch, but this seems to be a slightly more pressing matter and thus something justified by hotfixing it (in my opinion).

[Mcgral18]

Paul Inouye, on 21 July 2016 - 10:24 AM, said:

As I mentioned earlier.. it's to properly align the weapon's multiplier to correctly fall between the C-UAC5 and the C-UAC20. As for 3 UAC10's, the minimum heat penalty value for this weapon is set to 4 and has been that way since the weapon's introduction to the game.

And the cUAC20s are so popular...
15 and 30 as a value seem far too high, for the cost of the weapons. Even a value of 7ish would prevent more than a single Quad double tap, which presently sets you on fire

[kapusta11]

I dunno, with that kind of multiplier it would probably be better to increase GH cap to 3 UAC10s and see how that goes first. 4 UAC10s deemed OP? Fine, lets reduce gun count by 1.

Edited by kapusta11, 22 July 2016 - 11:10 PM.