74 replies to this topic

[BRIKHOUS]

Mole, on 21 July 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

I might buy a couple keys and give it a go a few times. Well... probably will, I should say. I theorize though that as soon as I experience it I will realize "Hey, this is a scam" and never repeat my error again.

My advice? If you're not interested in paying for c-bills, don't do it. If you go in expecting a good c-bill return for your MC, with the possibility of more, you shouldn't be disappointed. But if you're expecting anything else, it's a risk.

[OznerpaG]

Mole, on 21 July 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

I might buy a couple keys and give it a go a few times. Well... probably will, I should say. I theorize though that as soon as I experience it I will realize "Hey, this is a scam" and never repeat my error again.

take a look at the contents before buying a key - i got 3 crates so far and only 2 were worth opening. ended up getting 250k CB from each

[GreenHell]

The contents of these boxes aren't random! They're pre-set, and the system pick one of them at random. The boxes themselves are NOT random though.

That's why I say, do not buy.

[Angel of Annihilation]

DAYLEET, on 21 July 2016 - 09:46 AM, said:

No gambling system in existence has equal chance to get the grand prize and the other choice. That would be terrible business and there will always be sucker that like to gamble so no need to make it fair.

Except that unlike most gambling systems, with this your exchanging real money for items that cost PGI nothing to provide.

My point here is that instead of PGI trying to squeeze out every last drop of money from its players, it could choose just to make this supply cache thing fun while still making a few bucks.

I mean what would it really harm PGI to up to rewards substantially? I mean sure a few people spend a ton on MC to buy C-bills but I strongly doubt the vast majority do. However, make these caches really pay out, increase the chances of winning the mech to around 10%, things like that and people will throw money at this without even thinking about it. Instead we have huge debates about the value of them and many people feel it is a money grab on PGI's part.

However this is PGI we are talking about so that isn't going to happen. I mean I have been harping on this stuff since closed beta, about how if a developer focused on pricing the in game items it sells so inexpensive that people don't even pay attention to the money they spend, that they would probably make triple what they do with things priced as they are.

[Drenath]

I am curious - which type of player is this system is targeted at?

• Newer players, statistically, aren't going to be winning the upper tier rewards with frequency.
  
• Veteran players don't need rewards they've had an opportunity to earn many times over.
  
• F2P players aren't going to spend money without clearly tangible value.
  
• RMT whales are just going to buy the stuff they want to avoid the randomness.

It seems obvious that the reward model needs to be reconstructed if the intent is to appeal to... any player with grey matter inside their skull. But I think the bigger issue here is that the average value of the rewards is simply far too low to fuss over. Very telling is the cache sell price of 50k cbills is an insignificant fraction of what a player would earn just by playing said matches.

While PGI tells me they do not value my MC purchases by "rewarding" me with some scrap quality item I can already buy 1000x over with cbills, it's downright insulting to have "rewards" which are worth less than the cost of the key! (Looking at you, adv. UAV, priority arty strike, etc) Did they forget that this is on top of them being behind an additional barrier of actually winning the crate..? (1/24'ish matches)

I would suggest increasing the MC price of the keys and putting real rewards in there. You want the players to want to buy a key to open the cache, so make the rewards BIG. 10% chance at (S/H/I/C/R) 'Mechs, 30% chance of a standard 'Mech I can't buy for MC yet. The "low tier" rewards could be things like XL engines or top tier modules - nice to stumble across without grinding out the cash for them. Or maybe something nice I wouldn't spend MC on like unlocking a camo color / unlockable camo pattern for one of my chassis.

Now, if PGI wants to really cash in on the gambling/RMT types? Sell caches in the store!

Edited by Drenath, 22 July 2016 - 03:04 AM.

[TWIAFU]

At least it is easy to tell who has not yet moved out of their parents home yet, right "this is gambling" crowd?

I mean if you really think this is gambling then you had best get out of the stock market, end your 401k/retirement plans right now. Cancel all your insurance too.

Or do your objections to gambling only extend to a video game?

[Bud Crue]

Drenath, on 22 July 2016 - 02:45 AM, said:

I am curious - which type of player is this system is targeted at?

PGI seems to be in a constant messaging/marketing tizzy.

Starting with the original premise that this game was to be an online extension of the Mechwarrior series, with an emphasis to "this is a battletech game"; then embracing the I guess we are "a thinking mans shooter" which lead them to decide they should focus on "e-sports". All the while during this developmental "evolution" (?) they have had inconsistent marketing to their community, and even to those perspective new players via the steam launch, by not focusing on anything in particular other than to rest on their laurels with a marketing campaign that boiled down to "Hey, over here! We are on Steam now". More recently they seem to have decided that their "end game content" of "faction play" (now in its semi-final state, with mere incremental changes being made) is where they should focus, and commissioned a (fairly misleading) video to advertise its virtues (though even here it is unclear to whom that video is intended).

Finally, the current push to get an obviously less than well vetted set of dekals (after more than three years of the community asking for unit/faction decals) released for purchase, plus the goodie crate mechanism suggests to me that they have now decided to push the game toward the arcade/phone-app crowd in the hopes of picking up a few bucks from mechanisms that are apparently common in those types of game.

But "what type of player" is a game having all this mish-mash of concepts directed at? I have no idea. Perhaps they use the dartboard of balance for their development and marketing decisions as well. Maybe marketing got a nerf to counter the buff to the bog map? Makes as much sense as anything I can come up with.

Edited by Bud Crue, 22 July 2016 - 03:43 AM.

[GreenHell]

Spin-chance roulette style gambling mechanics in video games is a terrible, TERRIBLE idea. Especially in todays terms, what with all the CS:GO debacles. You'd think that people would want to distance themselves as much as possible from all of that nonsense..... Oh well.

Gambling never sits well with me in any of it's forms, and gambling in games is always a no-go for me. One of my main gripes with in-game gambling is that they're also targeting children. Kids don't know any better, and will empty mommys account before they realize what they've done.

Thanks for the 50k cbill boosters I guess?

[Lightfoot]

I never buy those random loot boxes in any game. DCUO's are pretty good, but I get those for free. In DCUO's all the contents are valuable and you pick the one you want. If it's just a random roll, probably very long odds to get anything good.

[justcallme A S H]

El Bandito, on 21 July 2016 - 01:28 AM, said:

Supply cache is the fastest way to earn C-Bills for those who need it and have few dollars (literally 2-3 dollars) to spare. For those who have everything, there is no point. Therefore I personally recommend opening supply cache to newbies who need a leg up in the C-Bill department. And once in a while, the newbie will get lucky and get a full mech.

Yeah... But... Assuming you don't wanna pay for MC. What is MC best used for? Mechbays.

So grinding it out via Personal Challenge as part of the events you used to be able to get between 80-150MC or there about. Sometimes a bit more, depending on the event.

Now previously (I'll get to this point later) often you're talking between 5-10 QP games per event. On average earning 200k cbills a match, ~1.6mil cbills or more while getting the MC. And then there are the usual cbill bonuses etc - BONANZA for a few hours grinding an event. 6-8mil is not impossible to achieve in larger ones either (FP inclusive etc)

I agree totally new people need cbills. However that's a problem you face for max 2 months as by that point you're now well and truly mechbay locked and that means PAYING for MC or waiting even longer for more events etc as all you can do when mechbay locked is grind out cbills. By the time you get that next mechbay, you're already got a nice bankroll sitting there.

New players are infinitely better off saving that MC and putting towards a mechbay.

Now onto my previously comment. In the past you gained MC from events. This current event replaces the usual MC rewards with, you guesses it,
1. Supply Cache
2. Cache Key

So potentially you can no longer earn MC as part of a personal challenge/event, if this is the new precedent, I am VERY concerned. How else can you now get MC apart from paying for it?
It seems very evident this Supply Cache lottery is designed to burn your MC so you buy it.

This is a fair concern IMO and even MORE reason to save whatever MC you have, for mechbays.


Do not gamble and try to win mechbays et al. Just sell them.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 22 July 2016 - 03:54 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

MechWarrior3017932, on 21 July 2016 - 12:57 AM, said:

I spent 125mc to unlock my 5 Supply Cache Contents

then i got......... this....

















>>> I GOT 1 BAP, 50k c-bill, LRM15(x2), AC/5, MMD-B Right Arm


umm.... pgi smh...

my suggest: just sell the Supply Cache for a little extra c-bills

1. You can just sell caches if you want to, more CBills and no MC spent.
2. The contents of caches are supposed to be worth more than what you spent on the key. i.e. The CBill value of the cache contents is more than the MC to CBill conversion value of what you spent on the key.

The point of the caches are a chance item. Similar to eastern games' Gachapon (or equivalent to western 'gumball machines', but ours suck in comparison) which is a popular blind pick collectibles machine. Common items show up constantly and you can repeatedly get them countless times, while there are 'rare' figures or collectibles that show up extremely rarely.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 24 July 2016 - 09:57 PM.

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

R31Nismoid, on 22 July 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

So potentially you can no longer earn MC as part of a personal challenge/event, if this is the new precedent, I am VERY concerned. How else can you now get MC apart from paying for it

You can always earn it in Faction Play

[Python46]

R31Nismoid, on 22 July 2016 - 03:50 PM, said:

Yeah... But... Assuming you don't wanna pay for MC. What is MC best used for? Mechbays.

So grinding it out via Personal Challenge as part of the events you used to be able to get between 80-150MC or there about. Sometimes a bit more, depending on the event.

Now previously (I'll get to this point later) often you're talking between 5-10 QP games per event. On average earning 200k cbills a match, ~1.6mil cbills or more while getting the MC. And then there are the usual cbill bonuses etc - BONANZA for a few hours grinding an event. 6-8mil is not impossible to achieve in larger ones either (FP inclusive etc)

I agree totally new people need cbills. However that's a problem you face for max 2 months as by that point you're now well and truly mechbay locked and that means PAYING for MC or waiting even longer for more events etc as all you can do when mechbay locked is grind out cbills. By the time you get that next mechbay, you're already got a nice bankroll sitting there.

New players are infinitely better off saving that MC and putting towards a mechbay.

Now onto my previously comment. In the past you gained MC from events. This current event replaces the usual MC rewards with, you guesses it,
1. Supply Cache
2. Cache Key

So potentially you can no longer earn MC as part of a personal challenge/event, if this is the new precedent, I am VERY concerned. How else can you now get MC apart from paying for it?
It seems very evident this Supply Cache lottery is designed to burn your MC so you buy it.

This is a fair concern IMO and even MORE reason to save whatever MC you have, for mechbays.


Do not gamble and try to win mechbays et al. Just sell them.

so, basically, it would be better if, say, mechbays were available in the caches? like the cache i have in my inventory right now, that includes the possibility of getting a mech bay? the gripe would be legitimate if the item you are most focused on wasn't one of the items that might drop from the cache. and while i fully understand there's 1 chance in 8(adjusted by their percentage modifiers) that item will be the one dropped, the fact there's a chance for the item you're whining about kind of puts holes in the boat of that idea. obviously, someone who gets a cache with that as a possible drop item has to decide if the chance is worth the 25 mc for the key, but the fact it's possible to get a mech bay for 25 mc is a positive for the box. money's tight right now, so i'm not sure, even at $0.15 or so for a key, whether i will be investing that cash or not, but i am not complaining about having been given something that, at worst, is worth an additional 50k c-bills. it wasn't in replacement of what i'd normally receive from a battle. it was in addition. that, in and of itself, makes it worth at least the consideration of whether i'd like to pay to open it or not.

people really need to stop whining about getting free stuff that can have it's value increased if they opt to spend a little money on it. it was free to start with and nobody forced you to spend a dime to open it. if you don't want to spend that money, then don't. it's just that simple. if you want to, then knock yourself out. it's a personal decision you have to make for yourself. either way, it has at least some in-game value to it, regardless of which way you opt to go. and there's nothing that says they had to do that sort of thing. if that's what it takes to get you to play the game, then i'm not sure it's worth you being here. too many people wanting something for nothing and thinking they are owed something. get over yourselves already. if you don't like the game, uninstall and move on. if you do, then make constructive suggestions on how to improve it and quit whining about extraneous stuff like supply caches.

[Satan n stuff]

Deathlike, on 21 July 2016 - 11:59 AM, said:

The biggest critical problem so far, is if the "worst valued item" in the crate is worth less than the cost to sell the crate, then there's a problem.

A Flamer would literally fall into that category... and to a lesser extent, a Medium Laser (assuming these are actual drops).

Flamers are in some of the caches.

[Mudhutwarrior]

TWIAFU, on 22 July 2016 - 03:16 AM, said:

At least it is easy to tell who has not yet moved out of their parents home yet, right "this is gambling" crowd?

I mean if you really think this is gambling then you had best get out of the stock market, end your 401k/retirement plans right now. Cancel all your insurance too.

Or do your objections to gambling only extend to a video game?

Do you ever make sense? Just let me know and provide a link to that thread please.