49 replies to this topic

[An Innocent Urbie]

[Cy Mitchell]

OK, I do not know why but that struck me as funny as hell.

[El Bandito]

Saw the gif, tried to post a reply gif, got lost in Imgur for 30 minutes. Thanks, OP.

[MeiSooHaityu]

When someone says push, everyone...EVERYONE... needs to push.

Problem is, often enough when someone says push only 2 or 3 out of 12 players push. The few that do get picked off or have to retreat back to their stationary teammates after taking a considerable amount of damage.

It's PUGlandia at it's finest.

[Lorcryst NySell]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 July 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

When someone says push, everyone...EVERYONE... needs to push.

Problem is, often enough when someone says push only 2 or 3 out of 12 players push. The few that do get picked off or have to retreat back to their stationary teammates after taking a considerable amount of damage.

It's PUGlandia at it's finest.

So true it hurts ... maybe even worse is when you do manage to get 5-6 players pushing, and there's a medium 'Mech at the front that stops in the middle of a chokepoint, stopping everyone behind him and making everyone take huge amounts of damage to the face ... for nothing.

[MeiSooHaityu]

Lorcryst NySell, on 21 July 2016 - 07:51 AM, said:

So true it hurts ... maybe even worse is when you do manage to get 5-6 players pushing, and there's a medium 'Mech at the front that stops in the middle of a chokepoint, stopping everyone behind him and making everyone take huge amounts of damage to the face ... for nothing.

Ramps on Terra Therma in a nutshell.

[Sjorpha]

It's a problem, but it's not so simple I think.

Was a push the correct call at the time? Does push mean everyone gets in their faces brawling or does it mean controlled advance maintaining your optimal range? What if your optimal range is 500+ meters and you're already engaging the enemy at that range?

I think you need to communicate properly about what the push means and get your team with you on the plan before giving the order, because by itself it can be pretty vague.

Edited by Sjorpha, 21 July 2016 - 08:25 AM.

[ScarecrowES]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 July 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

When someone says push, everyone...EVERYONE... needs to push.

Problem is, often enough when someone says push only 2 or 3 out of 12 players push. The few that do get picked off or have to retreat back to their stationary teammates after taking a considerable amount of damage.

It's PUGlandia at it's finest.

I find that generally the guy most likely to call "PUSH" is also the guy least likely to actually "PUSH." When he says "push," what he really means is, "hey everybody, there's a whole bunch of healthy enemy mechs over there that I can't kill myself - so please go over there and do just enough damage to really hurt those mechs but not kill them, and then die doing it so I can come behind you and kill-steal all those cherry reds."

Then when you ask him what happened to "PUSH" he'll say it was our own fault we died because we didnt push together as a whole team - and luckily he saw it wasn't going to work so he hung back. And we're all noobs. Git gud.

So no, Mr. Push Guy... I will not be committing suicide so you can secure yourselves some easy pickings after the melee is cleared.

[Pariah Devalis]

ScarecrowES, on 21 July 2016 - 08:29 AM, said:

I find that generally the guy most likely to call "PUSH" is also the guy least likely to actually "PUSH." When he says "push," what he really means is, "hey everybody, there's a whole bunch of healthy enemy mechs over there that I can't kill myself - so please go over there and do just enough damage to really hurt those mechs but not kill them, and then die doing it so I can come behind you and kill-steal all those cherry reds."

Then when you ask him what happened to "PUSH" he'll say it was our own fault we died because we didnt push together as a whole team - and luckily he saw it wasn't going to work so he hung back. And we're all noobs. Git gud.

So no, Mr. Push Guy... I will not be committing suicide so you can secure yourselves some easy pickings after the melee is cleared.

In my experience as the person calling "push," most of the time, no.

I'm right there, in the push. I might not be the very first mech in the blob, but I'm in the front line. Mech number two at the worst. I simply do not trust the average pug to read what happens during a push, so being able to clearly see what is going on while pushing is extremely important. The problem usually is that people keep avoiding direct confrontation, leading to stretched out and flaccid pushes that backfire in a heartbeat.

You see it all the time, not just in pushes. NASCAR? If an enemy is at your ***, it makes sense to turn around and engage the enemy, instead of stringing out and showing them your rear. What happens? ZOOM ZOOM AWAY FROM THE ENEMY! People let their fear override their logic, and they behave in ways counter to their personal success.

Edited by Pariah Devalis, 21 July 2016 - 08:37 AM.

[Husker Dude]

(Not as good as the original image, but:)

[Squirg]

Sjorpha, on 21 July 2016 - 08:25 AM, said:

It's a problem, but it's not so simple I think.

Was a push the correct call at the time? Does push mean everyone gets in their faces brawling or does it mean controlled advance maintaining your optimal range? What if your optimal range is 500+ meters and you're already engaging the enemy at that range?

I think you need to communicate properly about what the push means and get your team with you on the plan before giving the order, because by itself it can be pretty vague.

Regardless of optimal strategies, the best thing to do is always support your team. If a push is called, and the WHOLE TEAM works to support it, it will work regardless if it was the best decision at the time or not. (Assuming equal team skill and tonnage) Unfortunately this is where most calls fail.

If you are already effectively engaging at 500m you still need to follow the push, albeit at a wider arc, so you can maintain your fire when the enemy inevitably retreats from their position. It's not the drop caller's job to micromanage your *** when you should be aware enough to know how to best execute an order given what mech and role you are in.

Honestly, it's not hard to think. I understand most people's thoughts in pug games mostly boil down to 'target the closest dorito from the safest position possible' and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm guilty of it too. But if you want perfect teamwork out of pugs, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Join a comp group, or stop bitching about the #puglife and just work on your own performance.

[Moldur]

The best pug push I ever had was out the death cooridor on Forest Colony before they fixed it. Their whole team was out there, and we were all stuck, but several of us agreed and flooded chat with "EVERYONE, PUSH!!!!!"

I was one of the first out the gate and died horrifically after doing about 250 damage, but it was beautiful. Our whole team actually pushed out of the narrow cooridor. Yes, I was first out the gate because somebody has to, but my team actually did it. The whole match instantly devolved into an open brawl with almost no cover. My team actually won. It was a very good match.

Edited by Moldur, 21 July 2016 - 08:49 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

I love to yell push (in a very colorful way) and then... what do I do?

I lead the charge!

A side effect of this is I often must run assault 'mechs so I can stay alive and absorb damage to inspire the scareds behind me to step into the line of fire.

Pariah Devalis, on 21 July 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

In my experience as the person calling "push," most of the time, no.

I'm right there, in the push.

I can vouch for this. You stayed solid with a push last night.

[Choppah]

Squirg, on 21 July 2016 - 08:41 AM, said:

Regardless of optimal strategies, the best thing to do is always support your team. If a push is called, and the WHOLE TEAM works to support it, it will work regardless if it was the best decision at the time or not. (Assuming equal team skill and tonnage) Unfortunately this is where most calls fail.

If you are already effectively engaging at 500m you still need to follow the push, albeit at a wider arc, so you can maintain your fire when the enemy inevitably retreats from their position. It's not the drop caller's job to micromanage your *** when you should be aware enough to know how to best execute an order given what mech and role you are in.

Honestly, it's not hard to think. I understand most people's thoughts in pug games mostly boil down to 'target the closest dorito from the safest position possible' and there's nothing wrong with that. I'm guilty of it too. But if you want perfect teamwork out of pugs, you're going to be sorely disappointed. Join a comp group, or stop bitching about the #puglife and just work on your own performance.

This x1000. Sometimes a push is called for non-obvious reasons. Examples: Enemy is capping, the choice is either push or lose; one or both teams is in a bad position and the only way it is to push; a key enemy asset just went down and there is a short window to squash the enemy team; enemy team mostly consists of LRM, long range, or low endurance high alpha builds; etc.

Even if called incorrectly, more often than not, sticking with the team during the push is better than letting a lance or more die leaving the enemy to crush the remainder. Still, if in a assault, I now wait until I see the team is actually moving before throwing my mech out there. I have had too many times where a push was called and no one but me went in and a mech was thrown away for no reason.

[Pariah Devalis]

Mister Blastman, on 21 July 2016 - 08:53 AM, said:

I love to yell push (in a very colorful way) and then... what do I do?

I lead the charge!

A side effect of this is I often must run assault 'mechs so I can stay alive and absorb damage to inspire the scareds behind me to step into the line of fire.



I can vouch for this. You stayed solid with a push last night.

Harder to be the front line when in a medium, though.

[Darian DelFord]

Rampage, on 21 July 2016 - 06:54 AM, said:

OK, I do not know why but that struck me as funny as hell.

I have been laughing for the last 20 minutes.

[Mister Blastman]

Husker Dude, on 21 July 2016 - 08:40 AM, said:

(Not as good as the original image, but:)

What movie is that?

[Husker Dude]

It's from the tv show Community, which is fantastic.

[Mystere]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 July 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

When someone says push, everyone...EVERYONE... needs to push.

Problem is, often enough when someone says push only 2 or 3 out of 12 players push. The few that do get picked off or have to retreat back to their stationary teammates after taking a considerable amount of damage.

It's PUGlandia at it's finest.

If you want me to push with you, you should first take command. I'm not taking orders from a lowly grunt.

[Spleenslitta]

MeiSooHaityu, on 21 July 2016 - 08:02 AM, said:

Ramps on Terra Therma in a nutshell.

Yup. I never understood why they all stop there. They are easy pickings there.
So i go off on my own...at least i won't have to worry about friendly fire and assault mechs stepping on my toes.
Neither am i responsible for what happens to my clustered up team anymore either.