38 replies to this topic

[Lily from animove]

Aerei, on 23 July 2016 - 12:29 PM, said:

Get in line. The Phoenix Hawk has sucked balls since launch.

same opfor as th mlx, too many variants with only arm hardpoints.

[Spr1ggan]

Lily from animove, on 23 July 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

thats just a decision the just go without them, theres tons of mechs having to make these kind of tradeoffs, it's not that the viper suddenly makes this a unique and huge issue. Also, I don't remember that blown off pods actually make the mech lose the podbonus. Further that alone I surely not the case of below 100 damage matches. Also, lrm's seriously?

Dude... Where did i say anything about losing bonuses from having pods blown off?

And about lrms. Try being a focus target every ******* drop, i have incoming missile warnings for the duration of most drops no matter where i go. I didn't say they were killing me but they are ripping both my arms off and leaving me weaponless in a single alpha.

Edited by Eth3real, 23 July 2016 - 01:01 PM.

[Lily from animove]

Eth3real, on 23 July 2016 - 12:56 PM, said:

Dude... Where did i say anything about losing bonuses from having pods blown off?

And about lrms. Try being a focus target every ******* drop, i have incoming missile warnings for the duration of most drops no matter where i go. I didn't say they were killing me but they are ripping both my arms off and leaving me weaponless in a single alpha.

well then it still stays with the issue of you putting most of your weapons into the arms, just do not do that and deal with the tradeoff of those quirks. Further no lrm' s one alpha your arms off, sry you are doing something wrong when you constantly get lrm bombed. Further the viper has speed which massively helps getting into cover.

Edited by Lily from animove, 23 July 2016 - 01:50 PM.

[Spr1ggan]

Lily from animove, on 23 July 2016 - 01:30 PM, said:

well then it still stays with the issue of you putting most of your weapons into the arms, just do not do that and deal with the tradeoff of those quirks. Further no lrm' s one alpha your arms off, sry you are doing something wrong when you constantly get lrm bombed. Further the viper has speed which massively helps getting into cover.

Sorry dude but you are wrong, i went from fresh to both legs red and no arms after being hit with one alpha from an lrm boat. I never said i was getting killed by lrms or that i was constantly being hit by them, i know how to take cover but you obviously aren't familiar with being the focus target in nearly every drop you're in.

I could take a locust with one flamer and the lrm boats on the other team will still sit flinging missiles at a building i'm behind instead of firing at the bigger stuff on my team.

W/e though i've said i think the Viper should get structure buffs to the arms and i'm sticking by that.

Edited by Eth3real, 23 July 2016 - 02:06 PM.

[Snazzy Dragon]

Eth3real, on 23 July 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

Sorry dude but you are wrong, i went from fresh to both legs red and no arms after being hit with one alpha from an lrm boat. I never said i was getting killed by lrms or that i was constantly being hit by them, i know how to take cover but you obviously aren't familiar with being the focus target in nearly every drop you're in.

I could take a locust with one flamer and the lrm boats on the other team will still sit flinging missiles at a building i'm behind instead of firing at the bigger stuff on my team.

W/e though i've said i think the Viper should get structure buffs to the arms and i'm sticking by that.

Radar dep + cover + not wandering out in the open + knowing where the sight lines are = ?????????

Any mech falls apart under lrm alphas if you let yourself be in a position to get hit by one. When I play my vipers, I don't ever feel like they fall apart easily thanks to the superb hitboxes and ability to shield and armor roll. That said, it's a 40 t clan medium.. of course it isn't very robust! Clan mechs get the better side of pretty much everything else, so it only makes sense that for the balance of this game, they remain vastly underquirked save a few exceptions.. gargoyles and highlander IICs needed the quirk love, and they still are widely considered the worst assaults.

But, back to vipers. If the durability really is an issue for you, you probably shouldn't be taking a 40t clan mech out in the open, and focus on playing more as a striker than a traditional skirmisher or brawler. Otherwise, take an AMS, I guess. I'm not trying to say you're playing badly; the vipers are just a very different mech from stuff like stormcrow and the hunchback IICs and novas, which can take a little punishment.

Regardless: shielding is your friend. Armor roll when you're fresh and being hosed by lasers. If you don't know what armor rolling or shielding is (I hope you at least know shielding, seeing which tier you are in), this definitely contributes to why you think they are so flimsy and in need of buffs.

[Lily from animove]

Eth3real, on 23 July 2016 - 02:04 PM, said:

Sorry dude but you are wrong, i went from fresh to both legs red and no arms after being hit with one alpha from an lrm boat. I never said i was getting killed by lrms or that i was constantly being hit by them, i know how to take cover but you obviously aren't familiar with being the focus target in nearly every drop you're in.

I could take a locust with one flamer and the lrm boats on the other team will still sit flinging missiles at a building i'm behind instead of firing at the bigger stuff on my team.

W/e though i've said i think the Viper should get structure buffs to the arms and i'm sticking by that.

ok when you get oblitterated that afts by lrm's do you really think some HP will help?
Don' you think that being focusses all time is maybe a gamplay mistake by you?


some people constantly have issues others have not or extremely rarely, now lets try to figure out why. I just doubt thats somewhat Viper related.

[Dee Eight]

Lily from animove, on 23 July 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

thats just a decision the just go without them, theres tons of mechs having to make these kind of tradeoffs, it's not that the viper suddenly makes this a unique and huge issue. Also, I don't remember that blown off pods actually make the mech lose the podbonus. Further that alone I surely not the case of below 100 damage matches. Also, lrm's seriously?

Are you not aware that the vipers have instituted a new feature.... set of eight quirks SPECIFIC to the matched set ? The nova prime has a similar bonus quirk for the set of eight giving it an extra 5% reduction to overheat damage, but its base CT has that quirk also. On the Vipers, all the weapon quirks are tied to having the FULL set of eight omnipods for that variant, and in addition for the Medusa, there are mobility quirks with the set. You cannot merely mix and match pods to munchkin out the best possible quirks for whatever build you're trying to achieve.

Earlier you said wait to hear from the folks on the leaderboards...ok...I'm currently 19th for the C variant... I say it needs structure/armor bonus quirks.

Edited by Dee Eight, 23 July 2016 - 04:26 PM.

[KodiakGW]

OP. The good news is that the Viper seems to be doing just as "well" as the Pheonix Hawk in the event. By "well", I mean the event leaderboards are about the same scores (except the -D ,which still has players below 1000). Since it got quirk buffs the next month, should mean that the Viper *should* get them too.

Now, if they unlocked 4 of the 8 locked Jump Jets, I'd pony up $35 right away. But, I know that won't happen.

[LGBTQIAplus Ally]

I don't think Eth3real needs lessons on how to play his Viper. The leaderboards seem to indicate he's the best Viper pilot there is right now. I'm finding success as a mid-range striker using an LRM-10 with Artemis or SSRM 6 and 2 MLas with the Viper Prime, or 4 MPlas with B which runs a bit hot, and a PPC plus whatever with A, which I can't seem to find a groove with. It's not the squishiness that bothers me so much as how easy it is to take off the arms and be weaponless if I keep all the omnipods to get the bonus. Damage seems to spread well. I do wish there was enough pod space for non-machine gun ballistics, but whatcha gonna do?

[Iron Wind]

Whiplash Wally, on 22 July 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Burning jump jets on the way down doesn't seem to soften the fall at all. It's not the full burn jumps I have an issue with, its the 1/4 - 1/2 burn jumps that catch the edge of the terrain and act like a launchpad. Even if I have 50% fuel left for a soft landing, once the bug kicks in it jacks up my legs regardless. I'll try to capture a clip, it happens fairly often in the viper, but I've had it happen in other strong jumpers as well. Am I the only one experiencing this?

No, I've also experienced this both in the Viper and the Shadowcat. It is an annoying bug that can take off 5 percent from your legs.

[Dee Eight]

I'm calling it the KITT bug, as in..."hit the turbo boost kitt..." since catching any terrain edge will vault you skywards, even in a highlander or dire wolf with minimal jump capability... suddenly you find yourself hundreds of meters in the air, with of course, no hope in hell to cushion the landing.

[amenophis]

So far I have found it is fine. I have no problems (other than it runs a little warm) that I haven't found answers for in different types of fighting styles. It is a fun mech to use. Love the jumps.

[VXJaeger]

Yea it could use some structure to its limbs and -10 heat, otherwise bloody fun mech to pilot.

[Koniving]

JackalBeast, on 22 July 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

More like structure would do more harm than good. Wasn't it discovered the jj mechs with structure actually suffer more damage from bad landings?
Don't recall if that was ever fixed.

And ya this mech runs fricking hot even with er smalls

Correct.
Damage is a variable percentage of the locked total value of the structure or armor.
And I do not believe this will be fixed as it seems to be intended.

If your total is 32 structure, and you land hard enough to take 20% with no armor left, you lose 6.4 damage.
If your total leg structure is 52 structure and you land that same way with no armor left, you lose 10.4 damage. Even in the same mech weight for the exact same jump and landing.

What needs to be done is some jumpjet control (and hopefully for gravity to be put back to either Earth gravity instead of 2.8x Earth gravity, or to actually use the "Map" gravity mentioned on the fluff for each map!)

Dee Eight, on 26 July 2016 - 03:17 PM, said:

I'm calling it the KITT bug, as in..."hit the turbo boost kitt..." since catching any terrain edge will vault you skywards, even in a highlander or dire wolf with minimal jump capability... suddenly you find yourself hundreds of meters in the air, with of course, no hope in hell to cushion the landing.

Like this?

[Spr1ggan]

Lily from animove, on 23 July 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

ok when you get oblitterated that afts by lrm's do you really think some HP will help?
Don' you think that being focusses all time is maybe a gamplay mistake by you?


some people constantly have issues others have not or extremely rarely, now lets try to figure out why. I just doubt thats somewhat Viper related.

My point is solely with the Medusa cos the Medusa has the best energy quirks imo. Problem is that they're a set bonus. So yeah i had to do what i had already done with all my other vipers and just stick on A side torsos.

This is a big issue cos there is actually no reason to go for the set bonus quirks, they aren't even close to being worth it versus having higher mounted torso weapons.

Gameplay mistake? If aggressive play is a mistake then it's one i'm not gonna stop it.

Here's my Viper stats so far. All solo queue.

Edited by Eth3real, 28 July 2016 - 06:58 AM.

[Kurbeks]

Git Gud and IS medium PHX was also bad.

[Ostre]

Lily from animove, on 22 July 2016 - 06:42 AM, said:

how about trying to not orbit and save some fuel to soft the landing? Just because you can burn through all th fuel does not mean you should.

I have had the same thing happen, more than half my fuel left and LAG, then shot into outer space.

[Dee Eight]

One of the only times I've enjoyed that bug was when I caught a canyon edge in a highlander, launched CLEAR over into the next canyon and landed on an enemy panther that had exposed structure, and the collision damage killed him. So by accident, I scored a classic highlander burial DFA onto someone.

However its such an easy bug to exploit, especially in vipers, that with active probe and advanced sensor range, you can become a big UAV for scouting ahead and totally clear of terrain, like on the bog map.

Edited by Dee Eight, 28 July 2016 - 11:21 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Eth3real, on 28 July 2016 - 03:36 AM, said:

My point is solely with the Medusa cos the Medusa has the best energy quirks imo. Problem is that they're a set bonus. So yeah i had to do what i had already done with all my other vipers and just stick on A side torsos.

This is a big issue cos there is actually no reason to go for the set bonus quirks, they aren't even close to being worth it versus having higher mounted torso weapons.

Gameplay mistake? If aggressive play is a mistake then it's one i'm not gonna stop it.

Here's my Viper stats so far. All solo queue.

and stiff viper doesn't needs buffs its a fine mech, yes adjusting some of the setboni is maybe needed but even without the possibility to min max PGI was always bad at interpod balance.