869 replies to this topic

[SilentFenris]

Simple idea for consideration as a short term fix (and I realize some players will be VERY against this idea):

Make it a requirement to queue for an Invasion Match to have at least four members in a group.
Also, make it AUTOMATIC that any Faction play group be added to the Looking For Group System with any faction member able to join at any time.

I believe these two changes for Faction play would help population. Large Units/groups won't care as they can easily get 4+ players. Solo, pairs and triples will be able to combine with a larger group automatically, or scout until 4+ players join their group to make them Invasion mode ready. Want to stick to Scouting not Invasion? Simply drop out of the group.

This would also lead to increased social interaction among faction members, like during Beta 1. Granted it would be forced, but it would occur. Don't want to drop with a guy you know is a teamkiller? Just wait for a fifth or sixth member to join and the group leader already has the tools to kick the TKer from the group and BLOCK him. Ever better, if you like your teamates, you are already in a group and can easily drop together again.

[Carl Vickers]

50 50, on 25 July 2016 - 09:25 PM, said:

@Carl Vickers
That's a good point and would have done the split as you suggested. However, I do know that some people jumped out of their units to try the solo queue, but really, it should have been as i was in quick play.

That said, it is still a division of the population and the mode is not enticing enough at the moment to really bring in crowds.

And that's where I completely agree with you @Jack Booted Thug.
If faction play incorporated aspects of the quick play modes, plus invasion, plus utilize elements of scouting there is suddenly a lot of objectives in the mode.
I posted it in a bit more detail earlier in this thread but I think it would be great to have an enlarged map to fight over that uses all these bits, albiet have them changed so they mean something in the context of the overall battle.

• Capture locations to create new deployment zones. (conquest)
  
• Capture a strategic site to add a benefit to your team such as a radar. (domination)
  
• Capture the base to gain control of the supply depot to gather salvage points --> repairs. (assault)
  
• Disable the orbital cannon to allow larger dropships to land --> larger deployments. (invasion)
  
• Deploy intel listening beacons as a consumable to gather intel points --> info warfare (scouting)
  
• Hold a location on the map and fight off enemies. (counterattack)
  
• Meet an enemy lance moving into reinforce. (skirmish)

If the map was large enough to incorporate these elements, allow for a bit of random placement so things are not always in the same spot and we have a fog of war effect..... I mean... there's more, but you'd need to pry me out of that mode with a crow bar.



If the topic of the first round table was about dealing with queues and population, I won't deny that a more detailed battle to enjoy would bring in more players. However, allowing a less restrictive approach in terms how many players can join or start a match and how players can join and leave should allow for smaller numbers to participate while still catering for he large groups.

Worried about the death ball rolfstomp perhaps? If the map allows more freedom, has more objectives and has enough size, it could be possible for players to evade and scout out the area avoiding the enemy patrols until more players join and the battle escalates. That's where the call to arms should come in... There are a lot of other aspects and peripheral features that we can discuss, but at the moment... just holding back.

Agree completely, until there is something other than choke point warrior online to destroy gens and the massive gauss gun every planet seems to have multiples of, there wont be much retention for FW. Attracting peeps is not the issue, retaining them is when they get bored of the match type.

Very much like your description on how to use the current game modes to enhance FW, awesome work and not that much work for PGI to implement considering the alternative is a big *** rewrite of the whole FW.

My own idea is to ditch the FW maps and use QP maps with the new assault mode bases for the defenders and then some more dynamic game play would happen.

Good job man.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 25 July 2016 - 09:50 PM.

[Tank]

Clanners, Zellbrigen, Batchhals, Blood Names, Home Planets! Faction Warfare needs more depth, you already admitted that MWO is niche fan driven product. Small things that make MWO a Battle Tech Game - they should happen.

I stay in this project because of lore and small things that make it different from all other tank/plane/boat games. This is what is important for me.

I ask for depth in the game, a lot of small "BattleTech" things can improve it for me and other people.
#SmallThingsMatter

[Carl Vickers]

This game is well and truely past BTech lore, add some in for flavor but leave most of it at the table top where there were 10 second rounds, imperfect convergence and no quirks.

[K O N D O]

tee5, on 25 July 2016 - 12:26 PM, said:

sorry Kondo I have to interrupt and I think I have a better System. I didn't read the 18 pages, could be it was mentioned allready.


A Unit can have 4000 Players, but what if only 100 of them are playing CW/FP? So Unit Size not equals FP/CW Player Size.

Unit A has 200 Players and Unit B has 200 Players as well. BUT Unit A has very skilled Players. And they have a lot of time and play very frequently CW/FP. Unit B has very low skilled Players, and they don't have much time to play FP/CW. So Unit Size equals not Unit Size.


What you have to do, is a lot of math: You have to compress the math in a quotient or ratio.

Factors are: 1. How often does a player, play CW/FP. Look into his CW/FP gamestats, of the past 4 weeks, crunch that up into a quotient.

2. How good is he playing CW/FP. Look into his CW/FP gamestats, of the past 4 weeks, look at his Kill most damage dealts, his kill/death ratio, his win/lose ratio etc. crunch that up into a quotient.
(EDIT: But what if a good player makes a pause of 4 weeks, to cheat and get a low quotient. Hell, then shall it be all the games he ever played in CW/FP).

What this means is. A very good Player, who spends a lot of time in CW/FP has a quotient of 10(for example).
A very good Player, who seldom plays CW/FP has a quotient of 3 (for example).
A bad Player, who spends a lot of time in CW/FP has a quotient of 1 (for example).
A bad Player, who almost never plays CW/FP has a quotient of 0,25 (for example).


Every Faction is allowed to have so many players till their maximum number of quotient is reached. Let's say every Faction is allowed 2000 quotient.


That means: One factions can have the best players of the world, who spend hundreds of hours each week in CW/FP. But because they are so good they will soon get to the maximum of 2000 quotient. So they will have 200 Players(each player with a quotient of 10). And they are not allowed to have more because Maximum of 2000 qotient is reached. A Maximum reached Quotient means a total Stop nobody new is allowed for this faction, new players must go to a other faction which is not full.

The other faction has not so good players, or the good players don't want to go to this faction. So they will get mediocre players, who play maybe 5 hours a week CW/FP. But they can take more of this mediocre players. So they will have 2500 players. (each player with a average quotient of 0,8).

So 200 players have to play against 2500 players. And this is fair! Because on the one side are all the Pros who play a lot. And on the other side are only the mediocre/bad players who don't play so regular.

When all Factions have reached their Maximum of 2000 Quotient. PGI can increase the number for all factions.

As Stormbringer13 has already said, it is a 12 v 12 game. A Unit with 40 high level players will always roll a Unit of 400 low level players. However a 400 player unit can mass drop on planets and the 40 player unit just can't keep up.
As an example: If you use your proposal and 2 x Units with 40 High Level players go to Jade Falcon and 2 x Units with 400 players go to Steiner, the Steiner FP drops will get rolled severely by JF. The only way the Steiner drops would win is by ghost drops. Ghost dropping equals lost FP players!!!

However, by allocating Contract Slots by Unit size, you will have a better chance of dispersing skilled and large units across all factions.

Yes people can argue that not all players in a unit regularly play CW/FP, however since they are in that particular unit, they can all start playing FP during events or at key times and you end up with an imbalance again. Therefore unit size has to be calculated on all players in the unit, not just the ones currently playing FW.

Although some tweaking is still needed; my suggestion on the below link is more important to FP balance. Some of the 'nice to have' features should come a distant 2nd to the first priority of player/unit balance across all factions.
It doesn't matter what new feature gets added, if the stomping and shear player volume on certain factions can't be controlled, then players will still move away from FP.

http://mwomercs.com/...06#entry5307306

My suggestion does not involve breaking up large units. This is unfair on those units. However we can make sure that multiple large units cannot all take a contract in one faction.

Edited by K O N D O, 25 July 2016 - 10:05 PM.

[Ibrandul Mike]

My ideas for mostly short term solutions. Yes I put in spoilers but I try to get a TL/DR version above the spoiler so that you can easier decide if you want to read that part.
If you like even one of the ideas, please like this post. If say one or more of my points are mood and you only like other parts of this post, just quote the TL/DR part in question and comment on it.
Most of the possible ideas are more short term, for more long term solutions there are enough ideas already

The Witch Hunt (no solution just something to think about)
We all love a good witch hunt (ok maybe not the witches) but who is really to blame for the problems FP has at the moment?

Spoiler

I think the witch hunt is not a good thing.

Whose fault is it?
PGI?
MERC Units?
Big or small units does it really matter?
Is it perhaps even the loyalists fault?
PUGs? It has to be PUGs right?
If not PUGs than those people with Trial mechs for sure!

Were you thinking yes for any of these questions? I think nearly everyone has his part in the "who is to blame" department.
When I started playing this year I was one of the PUGs (I still am even if I drop with people I know.). I don´t play FP often. So yes I am part of the problem. My part is more often than not "non participation" in the game mode (as opposed to in matches).
So please don´t go witch hunting. In the end the witch might win

MERCs:
Big Units - UI and structure overhaul
Don't break big Units up into smaller ones or hamper them too severely. Give them other structural possibilities or at least check if there are enough active FP players so that they imbalance the whole system.

Spoiler

I don´t think forcing units to break up or limiting too severly will get us anywhere. Instead it might be better to change the Unit system.
Let Units organize themselves in two big groups, QP and FP. The QP group can have an infinite amount of players. The FP groups (yes more than one possible but more below) size might be around 20 or 24. That is not lore conform I know but depending on time zones and player activity it might not be a bad idea.
Getting into the FP group should be possible by only getting assigned to it. To stay in the FP group you need to play at least X (10?) FP matches per month. If not you get automatically sortet into the QP group. This is the quick overview for the Unit leaders to see who is active and who not.
Now the second part that might be much more difficult:
Make it possible for MERC Units to have more than one contract at a time but on the same "side" so IS or Clan. There are examples of units who did something like that in the lore.
Every FP group gets one contract assigned for the full duration. As long as the contract is ongoing they can't switch to another group (only exemption would be the QP group by automatic move).
This way you could have a big unit attacking and defending on more lanes than possible now. But they have to choose. They could have as an IS Unit for example one attack lane against CLANs and one against IS.
My opinion is that with such a system the effect of big Units on the map as a whole might be reduced while keeping the Units intact. The contracts would be accepted as they are now, so you could end up with one group getting 50% more income and possibly less play time and another one with 0% bonus income but more matches.

Small Units - small Scouting improvement
Two TAGs on a planet with a maximum of one TAG for a single Unit. One TAG for Scouting, the other one for Invading/Defending. MC for each TAG.

Spoiler

Scouting as it is now is not really attractive for small Units. It helps other Units to conquer planets yes... but they get nearly nothing out of it (MC).
That is why I propose the following changes:
1. Every planet should have 2 slots for TAGs. One for Invasion/Defense and one for Scouting.
2. Every Unit can only have 1 TAG on each planet but not both.
3. Scouting gives a smaller percentage of the planets MC than Invasion/Defense.
4. The planet still resets its MC only when the ownership changes Faction.
5. Which TAG a Unit gets is depending on the system as it is now in place (every victory is one point for the Unit per player that was active in the drop) plus a comparison which point sum is greater. So if a big Unit does both, they would risk the slightly less lucrative Scout MC "bonus". If the Unit gets the Scouting TAG and would get the Invasion/Defense TAG too, the next highest Unit in the ranking would get the TAG instead.

With this change smaller Units might be encouraged to try their luck in Scouting while bigger Units might get more into actual Invasion/Defense and not the grind that seems quite normal at the moment (get the Long Tom first, then the planet via Ghost Drops or with pissed defenders).

ComGuards Training Unit - Bringing FP to players
"Academy" like Achievements for FP and possible ways to make it a more enjoyable experience than solo dropping.

Spoiler

The ComGuards had the best mechs available but were not battle hardened. Let's try it with a Unit without affiliation (or as a MERC Unit if the first part is too problematic) in which new players can get to learn the Faction Play basics.
If possible get Terra as a contested planet that can't change its affiliation. Make attacks only possible if there is a que from the ComGuards (otherwise the planet is hidden on the Inner Sphere map part where you decide whom to attack). This way Scouting AND Invasion/Counterattack could be trained. With the new "stock mech" feature that is announced you could even force teams to have an "equal" footing.
For attacking make every planet reachable for the ComGuards and tie their attack vectors to ALL other attack vectors. So basically the ComGuards could (depending on their contract) drop in Clan or IS mechs and would get the advantage of seeing all possible modes.

For this to really work there need to be some sort of rules/implementations/restrictions:
1. The ComGuards can't hold territory other than Terra. Even if they conquer a planet, it wouldn't get their TAG on that planet.
2. The ComGuards can be assisted by other players (depending on the contract they have at the moment from all Clan or IS players). This counts for the achievements below. So people don't need to necessarily join the ComGuards.
3. After a set number of matches (20 Scouting and 20-30 Invasions?) a player gets an achievement and is no longer elegible to be in that Unit -> Automatical kick. Above the "new recruit" rank players are not kicked. A few people being in charge are still needed or we would have FP inexperienced players trying to bring FP to inexperienced players in a short amount of time.
4. Deactivate the Scouting part for Terra completely.
5. If at all possible give the ComGuards leaders the ability to set the Scouting level for Terra and only for Terra to make it possible to show the effects of the different levels. Or make an algorythm that changes the Scouting level every few hours or even in the matches. But "fixed" levels with perhaps Long Tom for one team and losing it after 2 or 3 strikes would work best I think.
6. If at all possible keep the Invasion possibility for Terra hidden until at least 3 or 4 ComGuards are in the queue so that no single player can use the system to grind the necessary Invasions quickly without learning at least a little bit of teamwork.
7. For the achievement to count at least 2 (Scouting) or 3-4 (Invasion) ComGuard pilots need to be in the group. Then it counts for the whole group (even if they are not ComGuards). That should make the spreading of the achievement not too hard but still time consuming. Which is especially important for Loyalists as they can't just leave their Unit to join the ComGuards for a few weeks. At least if they don't want to end up with the % LP loss and the week downtime before being "free" of their former Faction.

Why should anyone help here?
1. With the achievement players could get the (not yet implemented) ComStar and Word of Blake decals. This could be the ONLY way to obtain them. And we know some people are really really eager to get them.

2. At least for attacks (Invasion/Defense) on Terra add a bonus for the other team. Give them a bonus of 150k C-Bill regardless if they win or lose (if they have the achievements done, if not only the achievement payment). And give the ComGuards a fixed amount of 300k C-Bill regardless if they win or lose (so getting your first drop deck is a bit faster). The ComGuards Bonus should be tied to achievement steps like the first 25 match bonus. So yes they can do more Scouting or Invasion/Defense matches but they would only get the bonus till their quota is filled. After that they only get the normal amount. In the example with 30 Invasion matches needed that would give the players 9 million C-Bills more for their first mechs and much less frustrating grinding. For Scouting the bonus tied to achievements for the ComGuards would need to be less but in case of 20 Scouting matches it could still be around 4 million all in all.

3. As an incentive for players that help with the training and get into the command structure of the ComGuards (even if it is with an alt) give them a fixed amount of MC every second week they are active (at least 4? Invasion/Defense or 10? Scouting matches) on that character. So even if someone only helps for a short time, he or she gets rewarded.

MERCs and the Great Hopping
Soft and hard caps for Factions.

Spoiler

To stop the "flood" of MERCs joining one Faction the current system isn't enough as we can see now. Despite the soft counter with the malus system for big Factions we still get Factions with more than 15%.

To balance that it should be possible to set a hard cap. Say a Faction can't have more than 12% (14? 15?) of the ACTIVE FP player base. Implement a system that makes the following possible:
Check the database INSTANTLY when a MERC Unit tries to get a new contract. If it would get the active players over the cap, then no contract is possible. If not, they get their contract with the appropriate bonus/malus.

It would be important to see that LOYALISTS can be able to get to the cap on their own. Then we would have the case that that Faction can't have any MERC contracts. In that case a second step would be needed to block more and more loyalists pouring into that Faction. So for example 13% MERC cap, 15% Loyalist cap. After that no more people for that Faction. Even if they really want to because of... lore for example.

Lore, MERCs and the Clans
Bondsman as a new career path? ugly but for lore fans perhaps necessary?

Spoiler

Yes Clans don't employ MERCs in the current time. To be totally clear... if you are one of the people demanding that the Clans don't use MERCs just think about the more lore friendly "bondsman" alternative. They could be freed after a few days, weeks, months, years, whenever. IS and Clan people were taken as bondsman. If it helps your immersion see them not as MERCs but as bondsman.
If you have a problem with the possibility that one person gets to be a bondsman over and over again (by renewing the contract or by coming back to that faction... just think of them as especially unlucky pilots who got captured again and again.
If even that doesn't help... think about the ramifications of a changing system for Clans without MERCs.

1. Loyalists in the IS would need to get an assortement of faction specific mechs. These might be costumized but would be taken away again if the person isn't in the Faction long enough. Or the person might not be able to be a Loyalist for that Faction ever again (stealing a bunch of Battle Mech is not the best way to make friends.). After a few months to years (depending on the active times in FP) the mechs could be permanently transfered to the player for what he has done for the Faction.
2. Same for the Clan Loyalists but they would get much more diverse mechs and possibly ALL variants (excluding Champions and Heroes of course). Changing the loadout of Clan mechs would need to be absolutely cost free for them. But they wouldn't be able to keep those mechs if they ever leave the Clans (let's be nice and say they can have up to 3 mechs of their choice as a compensation if they are long enough active).
3. MERCs could only choose between IS Factions and would get no mechs. They would have to pay the full price for everything. Perhaps they could get mechs of their choice (no heroes or champions) at certain steps... or if you want to disencourage them just the things like they get now.
4. We would need a new Career path (to make it easier to remember we call them Bondsman) with their own LP ladder. If they choose to get away from this path, they wouldn't be able to return to it (Bondsman don't flee!). Or we could make several steps where they could get a token to get free of the Bondsman status and return later on. At the end of their path they would need to get something of value like a set of Omnimechs.

I don't think that would make players happy. But if you want the lore... that is a possible way that isn't robbing 4 Factions of a bunch of people. Getting the MERCs only for IS would unbalance the game more than just making soft and hard counter for migration.

Scouting mode - a short explanation for those that still don't get the intel meaning

Spoiler

The gatherers want to get intel. The protecters want to stop the attackers. The protecting side already has the intel. So there is no way they can get more intel against the attackers other than what mechs and with which armament are used against them.
That would mean 4 points of Intel max for the protectors, if the intel has the same value. Satellite codes (for the sweep and later Long Tom) and so on might be worth much more than knowing 4 enemy mechs.
So please stop saying the protectors should get the intel they gather for their team. It doesn't add up. You have the intel already. You just try to erase the drives, get the people with the knowledge away (i.e. shoot them) and so on.

[Carl Vickers]

After reading the part about mercs and bondsman Ibrandul im going to copy and paste my statement from an above post.

This game is well and truely past BTech lore, add some in for flavor but leave most of it at the table top where there were 10 second rounds, imperfect convergence and no quirks.

[Ibrandul Mike]

Have you truly read it or just the TL/DR part? If players really want the lore part, they need to think about all the consequences that would need to follow.

Clans without MERCs would need another source of "unbound" players. That would be the only equivalent that I see as a possibility. Freelancers wouldn't be able to go to the Clans.

So again the question: Have you really read the part or only the TL/DR thing?

[feeWAIVER]

Another suggestion, if it hasn't been mentioned...

I would like to see fluctuating weight limits either weekly changes, or changes by planet or whatever..
Just so we aren't always using the same drop decks.

Also, increase the hitpoints of gens and omega.

[Carl Vickers]

Ibrandul Mike, on 25 July 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

Have you truly read it or just the TL/DR part? If players really want the lore part, they need to think about all the consequences that would need to follow.

Clans without MERCs would need another source of "unbound" players. That would be the only equivalent that I see as a possibility. Freelancers wouldn't be able to go to the Clans.

So again the question: Have you really read the part or only the TL/DR thing?

Doh, tis mentioned in the title, but I did read it which is why I wanted to refute it. ;p

As much as I like some of the lore, we are past it. It should be about the matches and game modes, not loretarding. Peeps will make up their lore stuff , CWI as an example, having trials ect. What FW needs short term and long term to attract and retain players and needs the most work over all is maps and game modes as that is what is played.

Edited by Carl Vickers, 25 July 2016 - 10:32 PM.

[ibins]

Enable faction play for the private lobby. Would be the first step to build up leagues like MRBC and maybe a WC in the future for faction play. That would allow to make faction play more interessting for the competitive groups and maybe some of them will focus on faction play as competitive team mode again. Even before the WC we got more and more the situation, that solo play is quick play and team play is 8 vs 8 or group queue. So we don't have to wonder, that the population for faction play is shrinking... We, who love faction play, haven't the same possibilties to promote faction play as a great, tactical, comepttive and team based game mode as the group queue players have. So please, give as the tools (private lobby) to do promotion for faction play, that will help us and you!

[Ibrandul Mike]

Carl Vickers, on 25 July 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:

[...]
This game is well and truely past BTech lore, add some in for flavor but leave most of it at the table top where there were 10 second rounds, imperfect convergence and no quirks.

The problem is it isn't. We have Battle Mechs. We have houses. Upcoming mechs aren't just any mechs but mechs out of the lore.
I agree that the fluff would be much better as a by product and fixing the problems with map diversity and the player base for the game mode is needed short and long term.
But the lore is a core part of the game. I am no lore fanatic not even close. And mostly I hate the lore cries. Not because I think they are wrong. They have their place. But mostly because the lore and good gameplay in a PvP environment don't mix so well in this case. Still it would be better to compare MW:O to other mech warrior titles than to the table top. Compareing those two is the same as compareing apples and pears.

Edited by Ibrandul Mike, 25 July 2016 - 10:49 PM.

[Rick Windwalker]

for a long term fun faction play i would like to see

-way more and complex objectives (see all the great suggestions already made above)
-dynamic and more complex maps (+factors like random objective locations) which give way more possibilities for strategic gameplay
-faction-selectable attack lanes
-planets that have a "soul" or "theme" which has real impact on gameplay/mechchoice like waterworlds, deserts, zero/minimal gravity, space station invasion, underground base...
-some kind of economy like the mentioned tech-relevant planets

...and some flavour thingies like elementals as consumables: use em and they go for enemys mechs head or legs, if you dont use em you get some points of extra armor while they are carried on your torsos *fg*

So many great ideas brought already above. Hope they make Russ and the PGI team at least dream again ;-)

Thanks in advance

Rick
out

Edited by Rick Windwalker, 25 July 2016 - 10:54 PM.

[Kurbeks]

Also balance out trial mechs for new players. ATM IS mediums are terrible for FP both invasion and scouting. Also change gauss jager back to Thunderbolt SE. And change commando or lolcust to bigger light.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

-Being a faction loyalist has to mean SOMETHING. The loyalty rewards are just not cutting it

-cut the number of planets in half, and for gods sake fill in the planetary details. Make us feel like PGI at least gives half a #$%!.

-consider limiting the # of merc players a faction can have at any given time

[EvilCow]

One of the problems of Faction Play is the limited selection of maps and mission types.

I propose a very simple change: allow all game modes in FP by adding the 4 mechs in the dropship. Considering that all maps are being modified to allow dropships this should be feasible.

Skirmish: Just like the normal skirmish but you have 4 mechs.
Assault: I am waiting to see the new assault flavour but I imagine it could be used in waves mode, 2 times you attack, 2 times you defend. Or, maybe, you simply have 4 spawns in order to complete the objective.
Conquest: Similar to the current one but with 4 mechs and 3000 resources to be collected. Respawns would make the "control" part more important.
Domination: A longer massacre for an important objective. Trying to cut respawners from reaching the objective would be worth trying, I think this mode would gain from the 4 waves.

This would be in addition to current FP game modes of course. In general, allowing all maps and modes in FP would greatly enhance variety which is, frankly, the biggest problem there.

Personally I would play it much more if all game modes were available.

I will not be able to attend the meeting, I would appreciate if my proposal could be put forward to PGI.

Edited by EvilCow, 26 July 2016 - 07:41 AM.

[smokefield]

guys..guys...dont get too wind up. when the available mechs for release will be over and there will be no mech left to make a new mechsale pgi will close the doors. unfortunatelly until then everything will be just another patch to keep the game floating for just a little longer.

Edited by smokefield, 25 July 2016 - 11:50 PM.

[slide]

Note I have played FW almost exclusively since it's incorporation into the game. In that time I have experienced all spectrum's of the game from good group play, all the way down to pug stomps, both for and against me. From experience and extensive reading on these forums I would list he main reasons to not want to play as the following. Some of these have been an issue since the very beginning. I will give a brief reason and solution for each further down

1. Queue Times - way to long (generally)
2. Match rewards to small
3. Stomps. - Often caused by an apparent mismatch is skill between sides
4. Long Tom - no explanation required
5. Endless Grind - for no real point. (sort of applies to MWO in general)
6. Boredom - you do pretty much the same thing for 18 months, same maps, same mode, see how you feel.

1. Que Times
As stated many times the queue times are just way to long. An alliance system as suggested will help short term in that it will consolidate players into fewer queues whilst still giving players their choice of faction or even who they want to play against. Force alliances as soon as possible with Warden, Crusaders, Fed Com and Kapteyn Condordance, Put FRR where needed most (probably Kapteyn). Introduce Alliance voting after that. Forcing Clan v IS only will fail. Other fixes that increase the population playing CW are the only real solution to this.

2. Rewards
As long as you can get more per time invested out of QP than FW then people will continue to play QP. This is especially true when you are at the lower end of the skill tree. Sure good players puting up 3000 dmg and 10+ kills can break 1m Cbills easily the average player is probably around 500k and often less even on a win. Indeed if you get stomped hard and have used 8 consumables you have likely lost around 100k, after perhaps investing 30-45 minutes of time finding and playing a match. For a start
-loyalists only
-win - 300k Cbills
-lose - 150k Cbills
-mercs only
-no contract bonus, but +10% Cbills on in game earnings. Want to be a merc you need to earn it
-daily bonuses, similars to WOWS
-ie X damage = prize (Cbills or GXP)
- Y number of kills = prize
- Double XP Double Cbills for first win
-weekly challenges

3. Stomps
Despite arguments to the contrary Stomps by units v pugs happen, a lot. Reintroduce a solo only queue in a way that will allow new players to the mode a chance to learn how it works. Seal clubbing has driven more new players out of CW than any other single reason. This notion that CW is end game has to go. It should be THE game. Ways have to be found to include everybody. Even if it means handicapping units (12 man groups) or preferably giving losing teams a bonus for at least having a go when facing overwhelmingly better players.

4. Long Tom
-enough has been said already, make it go away

5. Endless Grind
MWO in general has no goal other than those you set for yourself. Whether that goal be to save up for a mech or reach Tier 1. Everything can be achieved eventually given enough time (or perhaps real money). Players will reach a point where they have enough of everything, I personally have 300m Cbills, 102 mechs, 36 empty mechbays over 10000 MC and more that 350kGXP (after unlocking all modues) not counting the millions of xp sitting unused on mechs and I would be considered space poor by some in this game. When you reach this point the reason to keep playing is the combat and the narrative. For the most part the combat is good, but there is no narrative, no goal no end point to playing. A faction can't even kill off another one as home worlds cant be attacked. Whether a faction has 1 world or 300 makes no difference to the game or to the point of playing. Units can get bragging rights by tagging a planet but that's about it. The Comstar intercepts were a great way to put purpose in the game do a lot more of that. Give people some goals

6. Boredom.
Nothing much has really changed since the inception of FW. A few extra maps and some spawn adjustments. We need more variety. ASAP put some of the existing gamem modes, such as Assault (new version), Conquest and Domination into CW along with the revitalized maps. I think Conquest with respawns could be quite interesting tactically. Just have the reinforcements drop randomly as far away as possible from other team to prevent spawn camping. Variety on it's own will revitalize the mode.


General note to ask PGI.

"When was the last time PGI sent a mass email to all registered members telling them what was going on, that wasn't something to do with a mech sale?"

For your own sake PGI promote your own game to existing and former players. You might be surprised at the results. Players who don't visit the forums or load the client will never know if there is an event on or what has changed in the latest patch.

[Kamikaze Viking]

The biggest problem i see is 2 main groups who want different things.

A ) Lore loving Faction loyalists
B ) people who just want the game to work and be fun.

Now they aren't mutually exclusive, but trying to make both groups happy at the same time is very hard.

After a Long discussion on the OutreachHPG Discord I'm trying to summarize some things for Jarl Dane to take along. (which he may or may not even read, i ain't the boss of him)


TL:DR - The Important Stuff:

How can PGI make MONEY from improving CW in a way that a majority will like?

1) Either a focus on the Map with Lore based economy with dropships, restricted mechs, Salvage using the Lootcrate system so that people will BUY keys with MC.

This will appease a large number of $$ spending long term players.

OR

2) Ignore the map, Add a match maker to CW, & focus on game mode and map design.
This will appease the High skill players. (i think this one is easier to do, but I don't see how to monetize this)

It might be possible to achieve both without alienating either group. But I suspect that this is near impossible PGI will have to pick ONE option. (whichever makes them $$)

Edited by Kamikaze Viking, 25 July 2016 - 11:56 PM.

[Karl Streiger]

Ibrandul Mike, on 25 July 2016 - 10:48 PM, said:

The problem is it isn't. We have Battle Mechs. We have houses. Upcoming mechs aren't just any mechs but mechs out of the lore.
I agree that the fluff would be much better as a by product and fixing the problems with map diversity and the player base for the game mode is needed short and long term.
But the lore is a core part of the game. I am no lore fanatic not even close. And mostly I hate the lore cries. Not because I think they are wrong. They have their place. But mostly because the lore and good gameplay in a PvP environment don't mix so well in this case. Still it would be better to compare MW:O to other mech warrior titles than to the table top. Compareing those two is the same as compareing apples and pears.

Sorry - but LORE is not RULES

TableTop is just a reresentation of "LORE" if you like it this way
as MechCommander or Alpha Strike or Mechwarrior heck evn MechAssault somehow - are just a different representation of the "LORE"

BattleTech is about the people - about loyalty, betrays, family matters and much more. It is about pride and shame - the Mech while the avatar of this franchise is just the tool.

MWO suffers from sticking in some parts to TT rules and decline to use them in other aspects. This is like trying to calculate the speed of a vehicle using square feet, liters and kilometer per second.
MWO uses to much elements of other F2P games but fail again to use the big picture.
So it is a half backed melting pot of ideas and concepts but LORE only by the name of those robots.


But to stay as close as possible to the LORE can save FP.
Not by providing a generic map but by providing settings (seasons) - so special planets get their own "history" (Richmond, Turtle Bay, Trellwan, Rasalhague, Tamar, Sudeten, Wollcot, Luthien.......) not just a name or a event - and not just starting a Tukkayyid event on April the 4th (that was the biggest fail I have ever seen in context with BattleTech maybe only second to the Ragnaröck MechAssault thing)

Edited by Karl Streiger, 26 July 2016 - 12:31 AM.