869 replies to this topic

[Nimnul]

This game enormous idea and background. Other developers are coming up with all sorts of elves, monsters, and God knows what. You kill the idea of making the weak implementation.

[Terrastras Rex]

This is my FEEDBACK as a FP player, no flaming please.
Just listing some things to think about while in search of a solution.
Qualifier: Im in 420. We're CJF and own 10+ Steiner worlds.

Dynamic Dropdeck Limits.
-Further you are from Homeworld, Less weight you can drop.
-Season will start and clans will push out fast.
-IS/Clan deck weights will reach parity and 'the front' will form.
-Superior side will be the one who can win with less weight.

-Give defenders better defenses + turrets. No more generator rushes.
-Remove 'Counter Attack'(Hold Territory) .. Worst game mode ever. Omega doesnt even matter-only kills do? Make it deathmatch then!
-Randomly "lock" one of the gates on those 3gate maps.
-More game modes/mirrors/variations on current modes/maps. Get creative.

Long Tom
-It was fun when it was new.
-Enemies don't queue when we have it.
-Scouting for it is a chore.
-Now we don't bother.


Solo-queue/Group queues.
-When I was a solo player I hated going up against a coordinated 12 man. I got stomped.
-Now that I'm in a 12man, I hate getting matched up against solo players. I just stomp.

-When buckets were split, we couldnt get enough players into them.
-Maybe IS vs Clan and then Split buckets would work?

-We need better social tools for turning solo players into group players. (Right click to add to group from faction chat?)
-Maybe only let solo players defend. (Meaning the solo players get the extra turrets + defenses.) Only units can attack. Once solos learn the ropes, they will want to join a unit to join the attack.
-Units will have to contend with the extra defenses+turrets to stomp some solos.

Rewards
-Solo players don't get any reward for playing FP. They earn more CBills in QP.
-Give everyone 1mc per loss, 2mc per win.
-Units can only make 90mc per cycle (around 6? planets held will max this) .. Our unit holds 10 planets today. We have no real reason to keep pushing to Terra when we're already capped, so we take shore leave.

Debriefing Screen
- Show KMDD and TeamDamage on score screen

FP game modes
- 3light, 3med, 3heavy, 3assault deathmatch (Get 4x of your chosen mech, call it "KNOW YOUR ROLE" -The Rock) Roles are assigned randomly at match queue.
- Remember the streetfighter bonus mission on either side of a car? Put teams on either side of a destructable city/dropship + lay waste.
- 1Light,1Med,1Heavy,1Assault (Get 1 of each in your deck)
- 'Escort the Supply Train' missions.. Man I dreaded these missions. But they were the most fun. ;D
- more
- and more.
- and even more!

Edited by Terrastras Rex, 23 July 2016 - 06:34 AM.

[Nimnul]

Pihoqahiak, on 23 July 2016 - 04:10 AM, said:

They cannot sell figures. They do not have, and almost assuredly will never be able to get the licensing to do that from Catalyst.

You did not understand me. They can sell mech figure, so that we can create mechs in our own factories. That we must protect our planet.... As well as the extraction of resources (steel, oil, coal, uranium, all what is needed for the construction of the mech). And of course the money markets, the economy and trade... All this will make the game better, much better.

Edited by Nimnul, 23 July 2016 - 05:04 AM.

[DaFrog]

Remove Factions until we have something increasing player base in each instead of diluting it all over the place.

Allow clans to have IS mechs and vice-versa.

Put scouting mode on hiatus until player base can support said mode.

or put scouting mode as a unit only operation, fewer scouting missions ( events ?!? ) with strong lasting effects on a week of invasion.

[K O N D O]

How to even out player numbers across factions.

The best way to do this is by evenly allocating available contract slots to each factions.
PGI knows how many players are registered, how players are not in a unit (Free Lancer), how many Mercenary Units, and how many Loyalist Units there are.
With exception to a Loyalist Unit, why don't they just divide the available Merc Unit, and Free Lancer slots among each faction by limiting the available contract slots based on the number of units playing.

Let me explain:

Say MWO Faction Play has:

• 20 Loyalist units.
  
• 200 Merc Units (20 large sized units, 60 medium sized units, & 120 small size units)
  
• 600 Free Lance players (no Unit)

1. A Loyalist Unit:
Can choose whatever faction they want. They have taken a permanent contract so they cannot be penalised for being a Loyalist. If all 20 Loyalist Units are Davion, then so be it. But due to the contact bonuses, I dare say there will an even spread of loyalist units among the 10 factions. For argument sake, lets say there are 2 loyalist units in every faction.

2. Mercenary Units. (the most common)
PGI knows how many Merc units there are, and how many players make up each particular unit.
The Merc Units are divided into 3 tiers. Large Units (greater than 50 players). Medium Units (greater than 10 players but less than 50), Small Units (less than 10 players).
Each faction only has limited quantity of Mercenary Contract slots available for each sized unit.
If there are 20 large units; only 2 x Large Unit Mercenary contract slots are available for each faction.
If there are 60 medium sized units; only 6 x Medium Unit Mercenary contracts slots are available for each faction.
If there are 120 small sized units; only 12 x Small Unit Mercenary contracts slots are available for each faction.

3. Free Lance players:
Have no restrictions as they can only take a match by accepting a Call to arms.

So in my example, every Faction will have a maximum of:

• 2 x Loyalist Units
  
• 2 x Large Mercenary Units
  
• 6 x Medium Mercenary Units, and
  
• 12 x Small Mercenary Units.
  
• (and whatever number of individual free lance players)

This method will have couple key positive points:

• You will stop the mass stacking of large units to one faction.
  
• You will have a better chance of evening out your player base among all factions.
  
• You will have a greater chance of influencing larger Mercenary Units to take longer contracts as they may not want to lose their contract slot and risk not having their desired contract slot available. A first in best dressed approach.
  
• You will start having a greater allegiance to factions because Merc Units will not easily be able to stack factions.

The only addition to making this work or a least work better, is to allow clans to join for attacking, as well as IS to join for attacking. For example, If other IS factions join Steiner to attack Jade Falcon, the planet win will still go to either the most active Steiner or Jade Falcon Unit that won the planet because the planet was a conflict on that border. Same goes for other clan unit joining Jade Falcon to attack.


If all the Contract Slots are taken for a particular faction, the Faction Contract is not able to be selected for that particular faction, for that particular sized Mercenary Unit.


I know some will say that the idea of Mercenary Units is to go wherever they are contracted or want a contract, but it shouldn't be to the detriment of the playing experience or retention of players.

Regardless of what fixes are made to game play, Long Tom, maps etc, etc; if you have uneven playing numbers across factions and a stacking of large units to one faction, you will still force units away because of 48 - 10 stomps.

Some of the other points posted are good but I think PGI need to start with ways to even out player number and large units.

Edited by K O N D O, 23 July 2016 - 05:34 AM.

[mgto]

First of all I have to say:

- your GUI is still way way to confusing for new players and too click intense for everyone. After the endless mechlab story (which took you ages to implement what everyone was telling you from the beginning: using the smurfy layout) I have the feeling that designing GUI is not really something you like doing (at least it feels so).


Some general improvements for quick and faction play:

• Show KMDD on score screen
  
• add a core-breach system
  
• more game modes
  
• all maps in quick play / faction play

To keep things simple I just vote on points already mentioned:

• 4 vs 4 with changing tonnage limitations
  
• Players should be awarded and recognized for damaging Generators and Turrets
  
• Scouting: The Gatherers should not be allowed to hide next to the extraction zone and leap into it at the last second when Protectors are sitting in the square
  
• Capturable Forward Drop Zones
  
• unstoppable, auto-long-tom sucks
  
• planet capture rewards go to anyone who fought and won to capture the planet
  
• allied factions to be able to participate in attack
  
• Objective needs to be explained better. (in front of the match and during the match) This defending but being the attacker aka counter attack .. I still don't fully get it
  
• field logistics
  
• less waiting times!! (seriously, if this does not change you can do what ever you like to FP and folks will still switch to quick play bc very few people like watching a timer run up and down and up and back and whatnot instead of actually playing the game)
  
• fp-quickplay mode which just adds you to the queue for smallest waiting times (works best if friendly factions can fight together)

Hope this helps somehow!
cheers

[Terrastras Rex]

Wouldn't automatically assigning the Mercs to the "losing" Factions be appropriate?

The factions that lose the most ground, the mercs are auto-switched to.

Only losing houses would bother to pay for mercenaries.. Why would winning loyalists? =D

Mercs would end up switching back n forth on an equal battle (Prolonged war = more $ for them)

Mercs who want one side to actually win, would switch to Loyalist.

pros: quicker matches, as losing houses would have mercs queuing with them.

cons: mercs would switch back n forth during a stalemate/front.

Edited by Terrastras Rex, 23 July 2016 - 05:36 AM.

[NAMEUNKOWN]

@ Bombadil what we need. my own views.1. no mercs in clans, clans did not hire mercs. mercs cannot decide where they want to go. they are hired for and ex amount of days, months,for x amount by the houses not the clans. they can accept or not. 2. current maps in cw are ok but we need more, and different objective type maps.skirmish in cw maps any one?. 3 since pgi don't want to use any type of economy in cw . why not use the mech warrior 4 mercs as an example economy it was simple but still had an effect on what you did. 4. capturing a planet must have an effect on the rest of the sphere . there must be a reason to capture it. getting your units name tag on a planet means ZERO TO MOST UNITS. mbpt 3025 was short lived true but had a much better structure than mwo why cant pgi look into that. cw to me should be a single player type game with real people i.e. capture certain objectives, then move to stage 2 then stage 3 and so on..scout maps are a great idea maybe more types of scouting missions can be added. thanks

[BSK]

Aylward, on 22 July 2016 - 06:21 PM, said:

When will we know which members of the community ??

There are many approaches they could do. If I remember coorectly they want to speak with 10 unit leaders.
They could pick the 5 biggest units of loyalists and mercs:
Sons of Odin 303
Sky Rangers of Terra 293
Star Wolves 208
HeadHunters of Davion 197
Clan Wolf International 175
Brotherhood of Randiest 468
Mercstar 372
BSK 240
Word of Lowtax 234
New Texas 226

They could pick the 5 highest loyalists and mercs in the leaderboard:
HeadHunters of Davion
31st Hussar Regiment
Tikonov Commonality Armed Forces
Sons of Odin
Federation 420
Mercstar
Kell's Commandos
Phoenix Legion
228th IBR
Evil

They could pick the top units of Tukayyid:
Mercstar
Smoke Adders
Clan Ghost Bear International
Smoking J's
Tikonov Commonality Armed Forces
Robinson Rangers Brigade
228th IBR
Phoenix Legion
Skye Rangers of Terra
313th Czechoslovak Mech Company

The top units of the hardcore unit challenge:
12th Donegal Guards Battle Group
Night's Scorn
Tikonov Commonality Armed Forces
Phoenix Legion
Arkab Legions Expeditionary Force
228th IBR
Kell's Commandos
Mercstar
BSK
German Clan Ghost Bear

Top units of Tukayyid 2:
Mercstar
Solahma Crusaders
Kell's Commandos
German Clan Ghost Bear
Tikonov Commonality Armed Forces
HeadHunters of Davion
Night's Scorn
Phoenix Legion
12th Donegal Guards Battle Group
Kong Interstellar Security

Or my advice would be a mix of 5 current relevant units of faction play and 5 units that had been relevant before phase3:
HHoD
MS
KCOM
228
TCAF
NVKA
NS
BSK
12DG
CI

The last option will give us an insight on what went wrong and made units stop playing FP while we also get an insight on what is going right and kept units playing FP.
Also, I would like to know when the ingame chat system gets fixed and when the unit invite ticket gets removed, I am not going to waste 12 million c-bills on casual gamers when we still have no module sale ..

[MovinTarget]

I would say shift emphasis away from 12 v 12 only to win the planet. have 12 v 12 only when full 12 mans queue and then have 8v8, 4v4 (scouting and invasion), 2v2 (scouting and invasion), and 1v1 dueling (scouting and invasion).

The larger your group in invasion mode, the more impact you have of the planet when you win.

This allows smaller units to drop tight and focused, larger units to not over overwhelm (can't drop as 12 man without a 12 man to oppose them) and queue would be faster because you are breaking things up into smaller groups.

For the smaller group encounters you can bring back some of the old QP maps that were built for 8v8.

For this to work for invasion you would need to move away from the "pie piece" model and use a similar points system as you do with scouting. If you win a 12 man game, it moves the needle more than winning a solo, but it all matters.

Finally on LT. I say, leave it in, but the owner must maintain a 99-100% superiority in scouting which means that the opponent should be able to disable it if they make an effort in scouting.

[MovinTarget]

BSK, on 23 July 2016 - 05:37 AM, said:

The last option will give us an insight on what went wrong and made units stop playing FP while we also get an insight on what is going right and kept units playing FP.

In FW3 it was taking the battle out of the hands of the players with overpowered LT every 2 min.

As I said before, I'm fine with its existence but It has to be *HARD* to obtain and maintain (i.e. 99%-100% scouting)

[Brizna]

Since the greatest problem for CW is the waiting times, wouldn't it be a good idea to allow for team sizes to vary, so matches can adapt to the number of available players within certain limits????

[MovinTarget]

Brizna, on 23 July 2016 - 05:44 AM, said:

Since the greatest problem for CW is the waiting times, wouldn't it be a good idea to allow for team sizes to vary, so matches can adapt to the number of available players within certain limits????

MovinTarget, on 23 July 2016 - 05:38 AM, said:

I would say shift emphasis away from 12 v 12 only to win the planet. have 12 v 12 only when full 12 mans queue and then have 8v8, 4v4 (scouting and invasion), 2v2 (scouting and invasion), and 1v1 dueling (scouting and invasion).

The larger your group in invasion mode, the more impact you have of the planet when you win.

This allows smaller units to drop tight and focused, larger units to not over overwhelm (can't drop as 12 man without a 12 man to oppose them) and queue would be faster because you are breaking things up into smaller groups.

For the smaller group encounters you can bring back some of the old QP maps that were built for 8v8.

For this to work for invasion you would need to move away from the "pie piece" model and use a similar points system as you do with scouting. If you win a 12 man game, it moves the needle more than winning a solo, but it all matters.

Edited by MovinTarget, 23 July 2016 - 05:56 AM.

[MW Waldorf Statler]

Bring...
Logistic Routes (sussesfull raids of it, bring the Targetunit -Malus (Chassies not avaible, Weapontypes not avaible/No ammo ,reduced Unitsize, Mechclass not avaible)
Healt Times for Units in Battle (Unit in battle have lost Mechs, damaged Mechs wounded pilots-now 10 Battles and any unit Fresh)
Routes with Waypoints over systems
Logistic for Units
Transfer Times for Units
Planets with Bonuseffects (healt for Units, Reapair&Rearm...)
Front units and Units for Garnision (by Clans :Omnis only for Frontunits /2II and Second Line mechs for hold Planets)

Edited by Old MW4 Ranger, 23 July 2016 - 12:15 PM.

[justcallme A S H]

Expectation was at it's highest for Phase 3 out of any patch/upgrade for a long time before it. Hopes were high but largely, the player base felt massively let down and it has hurt, really hurt. Players are at an all time low and a round table to discuss it, shows this.

So firstly, thank you for taking on the public input. It's been long needed and in all honesty, Phase 3 could have been much more if the community was brought in a bit better rather than total darkness and then a Long Tom dropped on us all, literally and laterally.

Jman5, nailed it on the Loyalist/Merc experience. Once you reach lvl 20/10 respectively, it needs to reset or something. I'm already lvl 6 merc since FP3 and I don't play regularly as many others.


Scouting Mode - It's simply not worth the time, rewards are well below expectation. No one scouts outside of an event, because of LT, no one wants it for a start and the earnings are poor.

• Gathering an intel point should be worth at least 20k cbills each. Currently I can earn more in a 5min QP than a 5min scouting match. If you want players in Faction Play / Scouting - it's gotta reward them better and actually reward, scouting/gathering of intel etc.
  
• Lower tonnage to 45T. The non-unit/organised players just seem to be unable to counter Streak based stormcrows, even though they are one of the worst mechs to bring to this mode.

Long Tom - in it's current form kills Faction Play queue's on a planet when it comes along in less than 20mins. That in itself should tell PGI all it needs to know - it's no good. Even the current nerf is nowhere near enough.

I can see a clear resistance from PGI to remove LT. So lets keep it, make it workable.
It should be adjusted along the lines of:

• A larger/more powerful Arty Strike. Buff a normal Arty by 20% in damage and AOE and leave it at that.
  
• Once scouting reaches 90% - a 15% cbill earning bonus applies to end of Invasion/Scouting matches.

MC for planet capture - This does not encourage the general populace to participate. While it's good for active units who tag etc. There needs to be more incentive for the people that are essentially PUG dropping, to drop.

• For a successful match win (not ghost drop), there needs to be a reward. Say 2.5MC per player that participates. This would encourage all players to get in. I mean make it whatever MC really, just something to really incentivize people to the mode
  
• Maybe even give 1MC for a loss or something? So at least, while not a lot - you're working towards that Mechbay or whatever you want.
  
• Leave planet MC for unit tags etc. All inclusive that way.

Single attack lane per cycle - I get the idea behind it, it stops larger units spamming across 6 planets in a cycle. That said one planet per cycle does not work either. This is one of the reasons that has really hurt IMO. If you get a planet to 100% in 3hrs, what do you do for the next 3hrs? Nothing... There is literally nothing to do once defenders stop showing and once a planet is 80%+, that is what seems to happen a lot.


Maps - Maps need attention. We need new maps. Not Frozen City style which went from a really good brawler map to long range skirmish.

• Maybe 6-7 gates and less chokes just inside them that will essentially stop the deathball at the gate and actually let attackers, get in to attack.
  
• More 270 degrees of entry points/gates rather than the funnels that exist now on most maps
  
• More map dynamics like some tunnels that only a Med/Light can fit through and dropping a gen opens the gates to it. Would potentially add a dynamic
  
• Even tie in 90% scouting with 3-4 extra turrets and an extra gen (I think that's been raised also).
  
• I would be careful adding things like ECM towers, UAV towers etc. I've seen them touted and just adding them to existing maps - in many areas, simply would break maps further.

Merc Contracts / Faction Population - The percentages are absolutely up the creek and there was never a paddle for this one.

• Faction percentage should only count X number of days. I would say between 30 and 45 days is probably a good number for population calculations. I realise the danger here for PGI is that it will show up how inactive some populations are - but - the users already know this anyway from playing.

In-game friend list - minor tweaks

• Show unit tags next to people. I for one, have 200 people - I can't work out half the time who is who to Team Speak hop/find matches etc. This simple change would help a lot for many people
  
• Let you create chat groups (outside of forming an actual group). So that you can discuss things with as bunch of people.
  
• The list never updates properly when someone logs off. Often I have 50 people online, I try to start a chat window "cant send, user is offline". They have probably been offline for hours for all I know. It's not accurate in terms of what is active
  
• For units tab, show a number next the user that tells you how many days since last faction play match. Unit Leaders can then work things out

Now what I must stress is a lot of these issues are directly related to another and changing one, will potentially affect another. Some greatly, some not so much. Careful decision overall needs to be made and discussed/thought out.

Some ideas above are mine and some are what I've seen many discuss the last few months, just to be clear. I may have repeated some as well, apologies if I have.

I could keep going but this post is getting quite long.

Cheers.

Edited by R31Nismoid, 23 July 2016 - 06:08 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Agree with the guys, there needs to be something more to look forward to other than leveling to 10/20...

You could repeat the LP/MP requirements of your top level and earn a Star or a new title or something (along with the top level bonus again).

Perhaps once you hit level top level, you can convert LP/MP to another faction, or you get credit for your attacks/defense on behalf of the attacking/defending faction as if you were a loyalist in that faction (or choose to put it towards merc)


Heck how about make level 11/21 RIDICULOUSLY hard and when you get it, you get a new planet named after you, on the map.

Edited by MovinTarget, 23 July 2016 - 06:17 AM.

[Idealsuspect]

My solution in 2016 for improve FW? Give us a solaris mode.

Well me and many others did gave ours " advices" in 2013, 2014, 2015 and the final answer from PGI was " only PGI know what is good for MWO " ( well it could be true if PGI did play MWO/FW ) and what we did got a skirmish scout mode, LT nukehammer and Loyalist contract so painfull to grind ( no LP bonus but LP malus for break contract GG ).

Huum thank .

[Koniving]

Mcgral18, on 22 July 2016 - 06:50 PM, said:

Why is the Long Tom a MOAB/Tactical Nuke?

Source damage is limited (30, not 1320), and saturation was a bigger factor than instantly killing everything in a given radius.

Why was this ever a thing?

Agreed.

30 within 30 meters of impact, spread to 6 areas of 5 damage each.
20 within 60 meters, spread to 4 areas of 5 damage each.
10 within 90 meters spread to 2 areas of 5 damage each.
270 to 19 Mechs was the max possible.
We can double this for a total of 540 damage total, or keep a strict 30/20/10 or doubled (60, 40, 20) per area with no max limit.

Perhaps a near insta-kill in dead impact?

But the design of this thing really shows a clear look into theatrical pizzazz and not lore.

[TheLuc]

Heck guys why trying to fix a Faction play mode when it will fail all the time, faction play should be the bread an butter for pgi to make players actions matter, thats why PVE is so much needed.

Warhammer the reckoning failed because of that, Savage did fail due of lack of AI, sorry but keeping the game only PVP it will fail all the time.

Edited by TheLuc, 23 July 2016 - 06:57 AM.

[Wintersdark]

Realistically, as much as I'd love to see things like UI improvements and such, what's necessary first is improving faction play gameplay. The best UI in the world won't really help when the core gameplay isn't engaging.

On the other hand, you can't expect PGI to build a whole new game either, that's just not practical. So, there is no chance of logistics, production, trading, factories, etc: as much as I'd love to see a persistent universe, economy, etc, that's asking for a whole new game to be designed that uses MWO as it's combat system. Cool, but not an option.

With that said, what can realistically be done to improve the Faction Play experience:

1) Long Tom has to go. Any feature that literally empties queues because people don't want to play against (or even with!) it is an irredeemably broken feature. Replace it with 100% battlefield wide UAV coverage (representative of total Intel superiority) - that's an immensely powerful advantage, but unlike Long Tom, it can't win games for you. You have to USE the tool, not just watch it murder the OpFor.

2) We desperately, DESPERATELY need open maps. The corridor design of current maps is terrible and stifles gameplay. MWO is not a MOBA. Polar Highlands. Massive city map. Not necessarily full open, but not lane/chokepoint based.