12 replies to this topic

[vocifer]

Let's talk about objective gamemodes in MWO and why they suck.
I also have some suggestions below.


So MWO is a niche game with it's unique mechanics of building a mech, using different weapons in different components and ability to shoot off those weapons/components in battle.
It is a core feature which makes this game survive and is really important. People come here to kill robits by shooting off components.

The mechanics like this I call a "complicated killing mechanics". The player needs to be able to focus enemy mech's components in order to play effectively. This requires rather slow engine speeds and low TTK (hence we all often mention it). But when a game runs slow like that it's not good for dynamic objectives like "capture the flag" or "conquest", just not enough dynamics.

The other games, which have an "arcade killing mechanics" (no components, enemy is just a single big hitbox), like StarConflict, do not require focusing components and have to run on higher speeds, have less TTK compared to MWO to meet good skilled/potato shooter balance. Higher speeds and low TTK also gives the ability to use respawns. All of these vastly increase the quality of objective gamemodes compared to MWO.

There are also games with no killing mechanics, like RocketLeague, which can run on even higher speeds and are more entertaining in scope of objective gameplay...


So. We have what we have. The non-deathmatch gamemodes suck and there's nothing really we can do to improve them. If you really into those types of gamemodes, probably other game would suit you better.

But the things are not as bad as they might seem to. We actually have an objective in MWO (the game can't be without an objective by definition), and the objective is...... Killing robits through shooting of components! That's the only objective. BUT, we can have different gamemodes based on that single objective.


Now here are my examples:

1.Kill the commander.

Same deathmatch but killing the particular mech (commander) gives you an edge in combat. For example disable all InfoTech features (no minimap, no command wheel, you can only see your own targets).

2.Salvage.

Again, same deathmatch, but you only get XP/Cbills from salvaging enemy mechs (killing them without destroying the engine).


I admit those are pretty close to deathmatch but you can think of maybe a better type, but remember: it should focus you on shooting of components/killing mechs, because it's gonna happen anyway.

So, what you think?

[Baulven]

I think you have fallen into the pit of stompy robot shooter instead of what a battletech game is supposed to be. Objectives are the point of the entire franchise not to genetically drop random bots to beat on other random bots. With few exceptions people are fighting for objectives, and killing things leads to those objectives being accomplished.

[vocifer]

Are you talking about lore stuff? Do we really have a lore in MWO? Yeah, the characters in those stories may agree with you about importance of the objectives.
But it's a game and games are being played for the sake of being played. The gameplay is primary and all other things like lore and objectives are made up to guide you through the gameplay, which is shooting dam robits.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I think its great everyone is creating their own thread to discuss the same thing. Must be 75 on this subject alone this week.

Do you think we can convince PGI by muddying the waters?

Narcissism is the only reason i can find for it but I am open for suggestions otherwise.

[Osteo2001]

I'd love to see an "escort the VIP" where you have to get one mech from dropship to a specific objective, or a "move an objective from one point to another". Perhaps having the objective dropped when the carrying mech is destroyed, only to be able to be picked up by another mech.

If you make completing the objective "worth it" with better bonuses or c-bills, it may make it more attractive for the Puglandia folks like me.

I know, not canon, but it would give some objective based missions and move us away from just killing anything we see.

Edited by Osteo2001, 24 July 2016 - 06:16 AM.

[Battlemaster56]

Your ideas, is nice in and all but tbh I've seen the same suggested many times before. And also some people like objective gameplay it mixes things up and just simply shooting robots can get boring fast if that's the only objective, the problem with other game modes that's not skirmish and domination,is that players simply base rush and the team don't do **** or ingrore all the cap points and try to kill the enemy team while they're winning in both cap points and kills.

[Xelos]

Baulven, on 24 July 2016 - 05:24 AM, said:

I think you have fallen into the pit of stompy robot shooter instead of what a battletech game is supposed to be. Objectives are the point of the entire franchise not to genetically drop random bots to beat on other random bots. With few exceptions people are fighting for objectives, and killing things leads to those objectives being accomplished.

Would you still be for these objective-based modes if deathmatch brought in more players? I'm not saying no objective-based modes, for organized play that stuff works fine because of higher levels of communication but when people want to learn a game in casual modes it isn't ideal. It adds an additional layer of complexity to an already quite complex game.

The concept of "objectives" are kind of nonsense from a pseudo-realism standpoint which MWO attempts to replicate. If we have two forces, one force suddenly doesn't win after sitting in some objective it has to do with actual forces in an arena and their ability to respond to an attack. Any mechs in the game remaining are able to counter attack so the option to fast cap shouldn't be an option. This is why a pure death-match on a battlefield is more representative of actual combat objectives. If certain mechs are only particularly useful for capturing and such then they should be buffed to be combat equivalent of rest.

The objective approach should be rethought in my opinion to something that keeps people engaged in combat part of the game at least for the casual players.

Edited by Xelos, 24 July 2016 - 07:48 AM.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

FP Raid mode.

Active only for Prime time in each of the different server time zones.

Smash and grab for various supply caches. Have the current MC open one and perhaps a generic one that is free to open, but only has regular equipment and weapons.

Attacker and defender. If defenders fend off the attackers they get the surviving supply crates. Attackers need to get the caches back to a drop ship. Have secondary objectives as well for extra match rewards.

Perhaps 2 mech spawns, for hot drops near mechs currently on the battlefield and not a static drop zone.

Raiding planets for mech parts is a very battletech theme.

A reason beyond fighting for the frack of it would be cool.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 24 July 2016 - 08:36 AM.

[Baulven]

Xelos, on 24 July 2016 - 07:44 AM, said:

Would you still be for these objective-based modes if deathmatch brought in more players? I'm not saying no objective-based modes, for organized play that stuff works fine because of higher levels of communication but when people want to learn a game in casual modes it isn't ideal. It adds an additional layer of complexity to an already quite complex game.

The concept of "objectives" are kind of nonsense from a pseudo-realism standpoint which MWO attempts to replicate. If we have two forces, one force suddenly doesn't win after sitting in some objective it has to do with actual forces in an arena and their ability to respond to an attack. Any mechs in the game remaining are able to counter attack so the option to fast cap shouldn't be an option. This is why a pure death-match on a battlefield is more representative of actual combat objectives. If certain mechs are only particularly useful for capturing and such then they should be buffed to be combat equivalent of rest.

The objective approach should be rethought in my opinion to something that keeps people engaged in combat part of the game at least for the casual players.

You somehow believe we will have a massive boost to numbers in this niche, minimally viable, wearing the skin of a franchise game by adding in more TDM? Pretty much EVERYTHING we have now is TDM. The standard for every match once you hit tier three and above is deathball, push in for a lead and THEN do the objectives. If you to anything else you lose, and lose horribly I might add.

So in short I think that somehow adding in more TDM unless it is a thing requested (like Solaris arena but again that is a lore existing venue) will not help this game.

[vocifer]

Baulven, on 24 July 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Pretty much EVERYTHING we have now is TDM.

Because it's a TDM game, and is not about standing in a red square? What is the point of adding another non-TDM gamemode where objective WILL be ignored most of the time?

Quote

The standard for every match once you hit tier three and above is deathball, push in for a lead and THEN do the objectives.

You can break the deathball by adjusting drop locations so that any lance has to fight it's way through the enemy forces to get to their teammates. But screw this, it's another TDM ****! Yellow squares around the map should work better for dealing with deathballs, right?

[vocifer]

Battlemaster56, on 24 July 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

Your ideas, is nice in and all but tbh I've seen the same suggested many times before. And also some people like objective gameplay it mixes things up and just simply shooting robots can get boring fast if that's the only objective, the problem with other game modes that's not skirmish and domination,is that players simply base rush and the team don't do **** or ingrore all the cap points and try to kill the enemy team while they're winning in both cap points and kills.

You can work on gamemodes which require players to do same things but in a different way, - shoot different components or protect a certain teammate.. Things, which make you go to mechlab and work on a build for that gamemode. Because MWO is not only a fight, it's also a mechlab. And a gamemode should provide some mechlab experience too.

[Besh]

vocifer, on 24 July 2016 - 05:20 AM, said:

[...]components and ability to shoot off those weapons/components in battle.
It is a core feature which makes this game survive and is really important. People come here to kill robits by shooting off components.[...]

vocifer, on 24 July 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

[...]shoot different components[...]

I am afraid you overestimate the average MW:O Player(s) if you assume they are able to target a specific location on an enemy 'Mech in the heat of Battle . Heck, many have Problems to simply hit, "R" cos of all the !pewpewzapzap! . Requiring them to shoot a specific location on a moving Target while moving themselves would probably mean to ask for too much .

Not kidding actually .

Edited by Besh, 24 July 2016 - 03:10 PM.

[Battlemaster56]

vocifer, on 24 July 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

You can work on gamemodes which require players to do same things but in a different way, - shoot different components or protect a certain teammate.. Things, which make you go to mechlab and work on a build for that gamemode. Because MWO is not only a fight, it's also a mechlab. And a gamemode should provide some mechlab experience too.

Making a build for a specific gamemode is really not the best thing to do since you have like what a 20% of seeing that gamemode more or less getting, I generally build my mechs base off their stock mostly and just try to improve it, I only do a complete change to the build if necessary. And usually it something I know I can bring in most modes not a single one.