20 replies to this topic

[Navid A1]

Who thought this was a good idea?

If PGI wants to make omni mechs more similar to battle mechs, then how about unlocking everything?

So if i want to use machine guns, i MUST use VPR-C stock?... WTF?!... this is sad... this is so sad... i bought the Medusa in order to use it as my main viper + omni pods from other variants.

PGI... how about telling your customers about your brilliant ideas right from the start?

I don't know if I should be sad because machine guns are so garbage that you need quirks to be able to run them... or... Should i be sad about PGI who forces us using omni mechs as battle mechs instead of making quirks that apply to certain hardpoints.


And to top it all... they decide to test this great idea on an omni with only 8.5-9 tons pod space.

[Felbombling]

Navid A1, on 25 July 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

And to top it all... they decide to test this great idea on an omni with only 8.5-9 tons pod space.

Nova has the same restriction... gets some quirks with the Omni-pods as individual units, but have full set bonuses as well. I could go looking for other examples, but the Nova comes to mind right away.

[El Bandito]

Post it in patch feedback, and/or Russ' tweet. Since it is money related, PGI might take notice fast.

[Y E O N N E]

TBQH, the Viper doesn't even need the weapon quirks. The Medusa can zap a target 486 meters away without a TComp. That gives you enough reach that you have the 810 meter max range of the pre-nerf cERML again. Just...why? Why does it needs this? What deficiency does it have to make up for that a 10% range boost is warranted?

[Cy Mitchell]

It is the first Omni Hero Mech. You had to expect them to address the issue of changing arms between the Hero and the other variants. The weapon quirks are not that big a deal. You still have most of the mobility quirks. It simply puts you in the position of having to decide what is more important to you; The Hard Points or the Quirks?

This is most likely an indication of how they will limit the power of the Omni Mechs going forward with Heros scheduled for the Huntsman and Linebacker.

I do think it could stand some minor armor or structure quirks for the arms and legs if they are going to leave quirks on all the other Mechs.

Edited by Rampage, 25 July 2016 - 04:57 PM.

[SpiralFace]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 July 2016 - 04:29 PM, said:

TBQH, the Viper doesn't even need the weapon quirks. The Medusa can zap a target 486 meters away without a TComp. That gives you enough reach that you have the 810 meter max range of the pre-nerf cERML again. Just...why? Why does it needs this? What deficiency does it have to make up for that a 10% range boost is warranted?

My guess is that it forces both low mounts and arm mounts on locations made out of paper machete.

Yeah those arms are potent, but they fall off in one singular alpha blast. Most vipers I've seen have forgone the medusa arms to simply take the A torso's (sometimes on a C-body) and just make up the extra hardpoints elsewhere so they become a little bit more durable.

Medusa quirks are nice and all, but there are some SERIOUS give and takes with those bonus' given that it forces you to place armaments both on lower mounts and on non-ideal locations given the overall durability of the mech.

[Y E O N N E]

SpiralFace, on 25 July 2016 - 04:39 PM, said:

My guess is that it forces both low mounts and arm mounts on locations made out of paper machete.

Yeah those arms are potent, but they fall off in one singular alpha blast. Most vipers I've seen have forgone the medusa arms to simply take the A torso's (sometimes on a C-body) and just make up the extra hardpoints elsewhere so they become a little bit more durable.

Medusa quirks are nice and all, but there are some SERIOUS give and takes with those bonus' given that it forces you to place armaments both on lower mounts and on non-ideal locations given the overall durability of the mech.

But how is that any different from the Phoenix Hawk, which got no such love, or the Vindicator? Or even the Blackjack, in a slightly different way? They've been pulling down the quirks on all of these IS 'Mechs, reigning in the range and beam durations and then we get this Clan monstrosity which can do what they did/do from further away and with more speed and without the risk of isXL.

Even with the fragile arms, which are a bigger deal if what you want to do is small lasers, which by itself is another issue since you can mount up to 11, it's just not necessary.

Edit: And I would point out that the Viper's shape makes it one of those "face forward" 'Mechs, like the Crab, Storm Crow, and Marauder. People losing arms are doing so because they are making a hard torso twist or bouncing into the air while making a hard turn, and so the arm catches all the fire. Good for preserving the torso, not so good for preserving your firepower. Storm Crow technically has the exact same issue, but people have long since figured out how best to play it.

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 25 July 2016 - 04:47 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

Navid A1, on 25 July 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

Who thought this was a good idea?

If PGI wants to make omni mechs more similar to battle mechs, then how about unlocking everything?

So if i want to use machine guns, i MUST use VPR-C stock?... WTF?!... this is sad... this is so sad... i bought the Medusa in order to use it as my main viper + omni pods from other variants.

PGI... how about telling your customers about your brilliant ideas right from the start?

I don't know if I should be sad because machine guns are so garbage that you need quirks to be able to run them... or... Should i be sad about PGI who forces us using omni mechs as battle mechs instead of making quirks that apply to certain hardpoints.


And to top it all... they decide to test this great idea on an omni with only 8.5-9 tons pod space.

Man you, we are beta testers customers, you did sign for this when you were still a teenager 4 years ago, ok now you are a man but contract is still same xD


Well for back to the thread i don't know what are vipers quirks and i wouldnt understand the logic of pgi if they give massive quirks only if you have full same omnipods variant than CT...
Quirks for sell the new mech maybe even PGI dont really know if this new mech need or dont need quirks and how many.
It seem they try (again) something new but pretty sure, it's always the same way they decide >>>




Change "mech" by "quirks"

Edited by Idealsuspect, 25 July 2016 - 05:08 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 July 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

But how is that any different from the Phoenix Hawk, which got no such love, or the Vindicator? Or even the Blackjack, in a slightly different way? They've been pulling down the quirks on all of these IS 'Mechs, reigning in the range and beam durations and then we get this Clan monstrosity which can do what they did/do from further away and with more speed and without the risk of isXL.

Even with the fragile arms, which are a bigger deal if what you want to do is small lasers, which by itself is another issue since you can mount up to 11, it's just not necessary.

Edit: And I would point out that the Viper's shape makes it one of those "face forward" 'Mechs, like the Crab, Storm Crow, and Marauder. People losing arms are doing so because they are making a hard torso twist or bouncing into the air while making a hard turn, and so the arm catches all the fire. Good for preserving the torso, not so good for preserving your firepower. Storm Crow technically has the exact same issue, but people have long since figured out how best to play it.

/looks at medusa acccel/decel quirks + laser range n heat gen
/looks at Phoenix hawk accel/decel quirks + Structure + cooldown + LL range

huh? This is why I can't take IS fans seriously, you've got structure you've got range on 1 variant + missile CD, you also get structure but the medusa is amonstrosity? hue hue hue what?

[Y E O N N E]

Lucian Nostra, on 25 July 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

/looks at medusa acccel/decel quirks + laser range n heat gen
/looks at Phoenix hawk accel/decel quirks + Structure + cooldown + LL range

huh? This is why I can't take IS fans seriously, you've got structure you've got range on 1 variant + missile CD, you also get structure but the medusa is amonstrosity? hue hue hue what?

A.) I'm not an IS fan, my tag changes with the unit. That said, the Clans are one big Mary Sue in terms of game-play and I do think that is rather distasteful. When your construction rules can fit eleven 5-damage lasers on a single 'Mech and still have significant amounts of room for extra cooling and remain both very fast and very agile, it's time to put the c*caine away.

B.) Structure quirks of some sort are absolutely necessary on IS 'Mechs to offset the XL-kaboom phenomenon.

C.) That the PHX needs 80% accel/decel should tell you that something is very very wrong. Also, the Viper itself received various agility quirks, too, and those are mostly tied to the CT rather than the set bonus.

D.) I want you to take a good, hard look at the hard-points on those two Phoenix Hawks with meaningful laser range. I also want you to take a good, hard look at what else you can mount after placing a trio of large lasers on them and an XL 320 to match the Viper.

Go ahead. I'll be here.

Edit: Really, PGI? co caine is a bad word?

Edited by Yeonne Greene, 25 July 2016 - 06:11 PM.

[Lucian Nostra]

Yeonne Greene, on 25 July 2016 - 06:08 PM, said:

A.) I'm not an IS fan, my tag changes with the unit. That said, the Clans are one big Mary Sue in terms of game-play and I do think that is rather distasteful. When your construction rules can fit eleven 5-damage lasers on a single 'Mech and still have significant amounts of room for extra cooling and remain both very fast and very agile, it's time to put the c*caine away.

B ) Structure quirks of some sort are absolutely necessary on IS 'Mechs to offset the XL-kaboom phenomenon.

C.) That the PHX needs 80% accel/decel should tell you that something is very very wrong. Also, the Viper itself received various agility quirks, too, and those are mostly tied to the CT rather than the set bonus.

D.) I want you to take a good, hard look at the hard-points on those two Phoenix Hawks with meaningful laser range. I also want you to take a good, hard look at what else you can mount after placing a trio of large lasers on them and an XL 320 to match the Viper.

Go ahead. I'll be here.

Edit: Really, PGI? co caine is a bad word?

Ah thank you found your issues

A.) you think the Viper fits 11 smalls with "significant amounts of room for extra cooling" yeah no.. I run 8 and its still damn toasty

B.) Oh sorry I didn't notice that arm CT, and leg structure offset XL death

C.) You think that the Viper keeps any quirk levels worth a damn if it changes pods (CT is only worth 15%)

D.) Trying to Run a trio off LLs on a Phawk while trying to move the same speed as a Viper which relies on Smalls due to lack of tonnage.

edit: stupid B coming up as sun glasses

Edited by Lucian Nostra, 25 July 2016 - 06:44 PM.

[Lykaon]

Navid A1, on 25 July 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

Who thought this was a good idea?

If PGI wants to make omni mechs more similar to battle mechs, then how about unlocking everything?

So if i want to use machine guns, i MUST use VPR-C stock?... WTF?!... this is sad... this is so sad... i bought the Medusa in order to use it as my main viper + omni pods from other variants.

PGI... how about telling your customers about your brilliant ideas right from the start?

I don't know if I should be sad because machine guns are so garbage that you need quirks to be able to run them... or... Should i be sad about PGI who forces us using omni mechs as battle mechs instead of making quirks that apply to certain hardpoints.


And to top it all... they decide to test this great idea on an omni with only 8.5-9 tons pod space.

My opinion is clan mechs should not have weapon based quirks at all.

Clan MG quirk is they are half the weight of an I.S. machine gun.

Quirks for clan mechs should be focused on making poorly designed mechs with sub optimal geometry or hit boxes more competitive.

Clan tech weapons should be "quirky" enough with higher damage,range,lower weight or smaller size. (of course this would require de-nerfing some clantech weapons to restor their "quirks")

[Snowbluff]

Set bonuses are entirely ******** from a balance perspective. It really should be put on an empirical scale, rather than an arbitrary one. IE, the pods with less guns than the pods with the most guns should have better quirks. Is that really too hard? >:0

Also, ******** is censored. I need a better way to explains how ******* **** this nonsense is.

Edited by Snowbluff, 25 July 2016 - 07:51 PM.

[Foxwalker]

While I am not sure I agree with Lykaon, that Clan mech should not get quirks, this mech does fine either way. For example, after pulling out the Ballistics and just mounting 6 ER smalls or 6 small pulse with Targerting computer and more heat sinks, the thing (C Variant) rocks with 0 quirks.
Not all of the Clan mechs are equal though, there are a few that could use some quirk help, but not the Viper. The Viper is a lot easier to level than the Phoenix Hawks were, by a long shot. I am not complaining about it at all at this point, loving the thing.

Edited by Foxwalker, 25 July 2016 - 08:43 PM.

[LordNothing]

give them money to be their guinnea pig. they compensate your time with a 3rd rate mech that pops every time i shoot one.

[jjm1]

Meanwhile I'm running around in a 4 spl Myst Lynx because I see all these vipers around and want to be cool too.

[The Zohan]

Yeah create another thread on a topic that is already discussed ad nauseam. Search function is apparently op *rolls eyes

[DrxAbstract]

The Zohan, on 26 July 2016 - 12:16 AM, said:

Yeah create another thread on a topic that is already discussed ad nauseam. Search function is apparently op *rolls eyes

'Search' is currently disabled. Brains are apparently op.

[PyckenZot]

Navid A1, on 25 July 2016 - 03:51 PM, said:

Who thought this was a good idea?

If PGI wants to make omni mechs more similar to battle mechs, then how about unlocking everything?

So if i want to use machine guns, i MUST use VPR-C stock?... WTF?!... this is sad... this is so sad... i bought the Medusa in order to use it as my main viper + omni pods from other variants.

PGI... how about telling your customers about your brilliant ideas right from the start?

I don't know if I should be sad because machine guns are so garbage that you need quirks to be able to run them... or... Should i be sad about PGI who forces us using omni mechs as battle mechs instead of making quirks that apply to certain hardpoints.


And to top it all... they decide to test this great idea on an omni with only 8.5-9 tons pod space.

The logic is present in this new mechanic. Either you use a stock set and get quirks or you build a lazor vomit boat and lose one advantage to gain another. Choices need to be made.

The one thing I do agree on is that PGI should have told us upfront.

LordNothing, on 25 July 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

give them money to be their guinnea pig. they compensate your time with a 3rd rate mech that pops every time i shoot one.

Medusa. Current stats over 40 matches: W/L 1.79 (25 vs. 14) K/D 2.63 (63 vs. 24)
I believe you may be vastly underestimating the VPR. It's one of the most fun mechs I've played in a while!

Edited by PyckenZot, 26 July 2016 - 12:48 AM.

[The Zohan]

Seems to work for me. But you know, one could always go one or two pages back in this very section of the forum and find what one is looking for. But I get it, would take effort and thats not what kids nowadays are used to.
ggthx, effortop