9 replies to this topic

[cazidin]

Greetings Mechwarriors. Today I have a simple question. Which of the following two mechs is stronger? The Phoenix Hawk VS the Vindicator!

[LT. HARDCASE]

Team Phoenix Hawk. The quirks don't save the Vindis from their sadly low engine caps (-1AA is decent) and terrible hardpoints.

There are more decent PHXs than there are VNDs.

Disclaimer: I've mastered all of both, the Vindis are in mothballs while I still put the PHXs out for a fun ride.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Honestly, they are about equal, the PHX-1B and VND-1AA feel about equal at least in PUGs (and those are the best variants imo). The VND-1AA has the DPS while the PHX-1B has the ECM and better mounts.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 26 July 2016 - 05:41 PM.

[SpiralFace]

Apples and oranges as far as I'm concerned.

PHX has a high engine cap, nimble as heck, rolls damage a bit too well (as it leads to arm destructions,) But is very light on weapon quirks and the durability quirks it does have seem to be mostly there to counteract the fact that the arms attract a LOT of damage that can lead to nutering. And for an IS mech, it's weapon quirks are virtually non-existent.

I do find it good as a great flanker / mid ranged poker with Large lasers. I see some people using it as a super big "light mech" sometimes, but I don't really see the apeal in it, as it doesn't seem to do it as well as other mechs out there.

Vindicator is bad, but I find it not as bad as many lead it to believe. There is a lot going for it, but sadly, its not a mech that conforms to the current "meta" and as a result, its not seen all that well.

Its slow for a light Medium mech, Its hardpoints are low, most of its primary armament is arm mounted, and the hardpoints are scattered across the body and worst of all, its primarily a PPC focused mech in many variants that is simply not meta at the moment.

But past that, its probably one of the most quirked mechs in the game. With the highest amount of structure quirks in the 45 ton range, a good amount of offensive quirks, and mobility quirks that at least make it "feel" like a medium mech despite its slow speed.

The slow speed, low hardpoints, and its focus on PPC quirks in many of the best variants makes it despised by a lot of players. But if you learn to utilize what its got, it can work. You just need to play it more like a support heavy trying to keep a good arms' distance from your foes. As its not that good at brawling, or long range poke wars. But it does make for a very good mid ranged PPC platform.

[Deathlike]

Quick summary:

Vindicator-1X said:

y u do dis PGI?

Phoenix Hawk said:

Look ma, no arms!

Somewhere in the Inner Sphere, a BJ said:

No Paul NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[FupDup]

In the battle of mediocrity, who shall win (lose?) the title of the worst medium gundam?

[MeiSooHaityu]

I used to think the Phoenix Hawk was better, but after extensive seat time with the PXH Standard pack (now fully elited), I'm going to say the Vindicator is superior.

Essentially the Phoenix Hawk still lacks durability in it's limbs (where as the Vindicator seems to have more robust durability quirks).

A really high engine cap is mostly irrelevant because many builds still seem to keep you in the low 100kph to high 90kph range. Basically, you will be configuring Phoenix Hawks to run at VND-1AA speeds.

Lastly weapon quirks are almost nonexistent. The PXH-1B gets nice PPC quirks, but often other chassis see rather weak quirks or MG RoF quirks.

For instance, the PXH-1K with 8 energy sounds amazing on paper, but it runs too hot with 8 MLasers and tonnage used for a big engine is eaten up by DHS. If you want to use speed and run cooler, you can use SLasers or SPLasers, but your arms fall off at such close ranges (where 6 of 8 of your weapons are mounted). Best I can run is 6 MLasers, 1 LLaser, but it is lack luster.

Now, I can run a VND-1R with 2 LPLasers and 3 MLasers. I get far more structure quirks, I get awesome energy cool down and heat gen quirks allowing 2 LPLasers to be cool enough, and I'm still doing 90kph. Yes it is 10~20kph slower than I'd normally run, but my arms stay on and my mech stays cool.

About the only PXH I like over the VND is the 1B. I prefer the 1B over the 1AA because it does the same task for me, but I scrub some speed for an ECM and one torso high mounted energy.

Other than that, if I had to pick between the 2, I'd pick the Vindicator.

[MeiSooHaityu]

FupDup, on 26 July 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

In the battle of mediocrity, who shall win (lose?) the title of the worst medium gundam?

Yeah, basically :/. I still like them regardless though. I guess I'm a robot masochist.

P.S. The PXH-1's hard points are a train wreck. It's like throwing a VND-1X in a blender and just seeing where the hard points fall. At least the PXH-1 can run 3 LLasers ok (a VND-1X cant do that)...3 LLasers...ugh.

[Bud Crue]

FupDup, on 26 July 2016 - 07:42 PM, said:

In the battle of mediocrity, who shall win (lose?) the title of the worst medium gundam?

The Victor...it may not be a medium, but several mediums can out perform it, are tankier than it, and come close to out gunning it.

[jss78]

They're so different that the answer is probably "the one that suits your play style better".

Vindicators are tough to generalize on, as the 1AA is so different -- and massively better -- compared to the rest.

The 1AA with 2xPPC + 6JJ is as good as you are with the PPC's. It's a nice 'mech for a very niche role. I prefer it slightly over the PXH-1b, as the heat quirks are to me more essential than the ECM. I'd reconsider if the PXH-1b could put both PPC's in that shoulder mount.

The other Vindicators are, due to the lower engine cap, exactly what they are in tabletop: poor man's heavies. They do nothing a heavier 'mech wouldn't do better. They make sense in TT campaigns, but not in MWO where resources aren't an issue.

The other Phoenix Hawks (the ones with all armaments in arms) are fun with the agility and great jumping, but not very good. I like them best as medium-range skirmishers. In close quarters they get gunned down quite quick.