86 replies to this topic

[C E Dwyer]

Kithmar, on 27 July 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

Hey everyone. I've been wondering just how good or bad of a pilot I am in MechWarrior Online. I'm finding it hard to find a point to judge myself against.
I don't play terribly to often, maybe 2-3 times a week doing a 3-4 matches each session.
I tend to win more often than I lose, my KDR is near 1.00. The last two weeks I've been doing about 350-400 damage each match with the same 'Mech. A slightly altered Summoner Prime.

I don't care about the "meta" or what build is better, or what 'Mech is better. I don't care if LRM's are for noobs, or the LB-X 10 is bleh. My 'Mech builds aren't in question,
I'm just looking for some help in finding a direction to judge my personal improvement as a pilot.
So let me know, what stats or game play elements do you look at to judge yourself?

Are you enjoying it, if so why worry.

[PhoenixFire55]

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 July 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

But one thing I understood early and that is tiers have a lot to do with luck. Lucky to be good at twitch. Lucky to have a good internet connection. Lucky to afford the best gaming system and peripherals.

LOL ... must be really sad to believe in such BS.

Lucky to be good at twitch? Its like saying someone is lucky to be good at sports or studying or whatever ... it takes work, lots of practice, luck has nothing to do with it.
As for "gaming system" and what not then for example I'm playing on a 6 years old PC, it has zero impact on how good or bad I can play this game. Having all the useless fluff turned off might actually be helping.

So please, stop bringing more nonesense about how being good at something is luck.

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 July 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

I certainly don't buy the whole skill thing as I have killed many 1s and 2s including big names here on the forums with their fancy badges and team destinations.

In a fully fresh mech when they were red cored everywhere maybe ... barely ... lol

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 July 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

If I listen to many of you it is said every one gets to tier one eventually so how is that skill?

Well ... here is the deal. PSR is biased towards going up in ranking when your performance is average. If it is below average you are either not going anywhere or going down. I.e. anyone who had played 500 or so games and not yet reached tier 1 is simply a below average player. T1 isn't saying anything about skill, but not being T1 at this point says it all.

Mudhutwarrior, on 28 July 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

I just think many are short in the waistline and need to make up for it being big man in a video game forums. The problem with most of you guys that despise me is I see through all the bluster and posturing. I know what most of you really are in context and I hold the mirror. Pretty fun too. almost as much as in game.

LOL ... whatever if it makes you feel better really. Once again you are making silly assumptions about people around you knowing absolutely nothing about any of them. You are content with being bad in this game, and thats fine, but stop dissuading others from improving with your useless moaning. Just stop.

[ShoeKush]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 July 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

LOL ... must be really sad to believe in such BS.

Lucky to be good at twitch? Its like saying someone is lucky to be good at sports or studying or whatever ... it takes work, lots of practice, luck has nothing to do with it.
As for "gaming system" and what not then for example I'm playing on a 6 years old PC, it has zero impact on how good or bad I can play this game. Having all the useless fluff turned off might actually be helping.

So please, stop bringing more nonesense about how being good at something is luck.



In a fully fresh mech when they were red cored everywhere maybe ... barely ... lol



Well ... here is the deal. PSR is biased towards going up in ranking when your performance is average. If it is below average you are either not going anywhere or going down. I.e. anyone who had played 500 or so games and not yet reached tier 1 is simply a below average player. T1 isn't saying anything about skill, but not being T1 at this point says it all.



LOL ... whatever if it makes you feel better really. Once again you are making silly assumptions about people around you knowing absolutely nothing about any of them. You are content with being bad in this game, and thats fine, but stop dissuading others from improving with your useless moaning. Just stop.

Someone called the fun police and it's being trailed by the wahbulance!

Please continue telling us how being good at clicking things makes you interesting.

Edited by ShoeKush, 29 July 2016 - 04:09 AM.

[PhoenixFire55]

ShoeKush, on 29 July 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

Someone called the fun police and it's being trailed by the wahbulance!

Please continue telling us how being good at clicking things makes you interesting.

LOL, on the contrary, its this certain someone thats telling us how being bad at clicking things and using brains makes him special.

OP wanted a specific answer on how he can evaluate his performance coz he cares. He got his answer I believe. Thats all that matters. The terribads that crawled in afterwards crying how unfair it is are truly irrelevant, because a sure sign of a terribad is exactly that - wasting time on stupid whining instead of improving yourself.

[ShoeKush]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 July 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

LOL, on the contrary, its this certain someone thats telling us how being bad at clicking things and using brains makes him special.

OP wanted a specific answer on how he can evaluate his performance coz he cares. He got his answer I believe. Thats all that matters. The terribads that crawled in afterwards crying how unfair it is are truly irrelevant, because a sure sign of a terribad is exactly that - wasting time on stupid whining instead of improving yourself.

You have a half naked cartoon in your signature. I uh...won't be taking your advice to "get gud". I was 16 once and I closed down a few counterstrike teams in my day. Now I just, smoke my stuff, and drink my wine. (Also spend my days looking for a woman in kind.)

[Ghogiel]

ShoeKush, on 29 July 2016 - 04:08 AM, said:

Someone called the fun police and it's being trailed by the wahbulance!

Please continue telling us how being good at clicking things makes you interesting.

I don't speak potato.

[PhoenixFire55]

ShoeKush, on 29 July 2016 - 04:19 AM, said:

You have a half naked cartoon in your signature. I uh...won't be taking your advice to "get gud". I was 16 once and I closed down a few counterstrike teams in my day. Now I just, smoke my stuff, and drink my wine. (Also spend my days looking for a woman in kind.)

Suit yourself, my cartoon ain't any better/worse than your dude in a gas mask. Nor did I ever advise you anything, but keep making assumptions.

[Kithmar]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 July 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

OP wanted a specific answer on how he can evaluate his performance coz he cares. He got his answer I believe.

Yes and yes. Thank you. Thanks to everyone that contributed to answering my question.
I feel more confident in my ability to judge myself. With that said, I played a quick play match last night and did so AWESOME, until I turned a corner and ran into two Kodiaks and a Direwolf. I think I managed to hit one of them three or four times before I was blasted to pieces. lol

[Satan n stuff]

Kithmar, on 29 July 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

Yes and yes. Thank you. Thanks to everyone that contributed to answering my question.
I feel more confident in my ability to judge myself. With that said, I played a quick play match last night and did so AWESOME, until I turned a corner and ran into two Kodiaks and a Direwolf. I think I managed to hit one of them three or four times before I was blasted to pieces. lol

I saw a Kodiak today that did less than 20 damage, I'd say you're fine.

[Ghogiel]

Satan n stuff, on 29 July 2016 - 05:48 AM, said:

I saw a Kodiak today that did less than 20 damage, I'd say you're fine.

Today I saw a KDK that did 7 dmg. From a well known unit (The one that is the standard for mediocrity.)

He even raged at team for the loss.

[Mudhutwarrior]

PhoenixFire55, on 29 July 2016 - 12:25 AM, said:

LOL ... must be really sad to believe in such BS.

Lucky to be good at twitch? Its like saying someone is lucky to be good at sports or studying or whatever ... it takes work, lots of practice, luck has nothing to do with it.
As for "gaming system" and what not then for example I'm playing on a 6 years old PC, it has zero impact on how good or bad I can play this game. Having all the useless fluff turned off might actually be helping.

So please, stop bringing more nonesense about how being good at something is luck.



In a fully fresh mech when they were red cored everywhere maybe ... barely ... lol



Well ... here is the deal. PSR is biased towards going up in ranking when your performance is average. If it is below average you are either not going anywhere or going down. I.e. anyone who had played 500 or so games and not yet reached tier 1 is simply a below average player. T1 isn't saying anything about skill, but not being T1 at this point says it all.



LOL ... whatever if it makes you feel better really. Once again you are making silly assumptions about people around you knowing absolutely nothing about any of them. You are content with being bad in this game, and thats fine, but stop dissuading others from improving with your useless moaning. Just stop.

No one is dissuading anyone from getting better. You guys have built a box only a number can fit into. There is no progression. Its sink or swim and thats why so many have left and or leaving. It's a game after all and everyone from every skill lever should have a place to increase population and have a larger base so those that do improve can move up into high order games.

And yes people are lucky to be good at twitch. Some may get better over time but base reaction time is different for many people. Mine was taken away so I know I will never improve past a point. Can I not love the game and have fun too? I was actually told that people at my level should leave because we drag down other players. How will that increase population? You all talk about reducing buckets but the way it is going there will only be one bucket before the lights go out. PGI needs players to make money and keep it going yet over an over you guys push to make that not happen.

There is no progression here like in most sports/games. Got to any minor league games locally and see forty year olds playing. They love the game. They will never go pro. Should they leave or should they stop having minor leauges? How long would it last if they did?

[KHETTI]

New player makes thread asking for advice on how to improve, how to gauge his/her progression.
Vets turn thread into their personal smack talk thread!.

[Satan n stuff]

KHETTI, on 29 July 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

New player makes thread asking for advice on how to improve, how to gauge his/her progression.
Vets turn thread into their personal smack talk thread!.

You might want to check which forum this actually is before you start complaining.

[KHETTI]

Satan n stuff, on 29 July 2016 - 07:52 AM, said:

You might want to check which forum this actually is before you start complaining.

Not complaining, just pointing out the counter-productive.

[Mudhutwarrior]

KHETTI, on 29 July 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Not complaining, just pointing out the counter-productive.

As always. Sometimes it seems these guys go out to beat the homeless for kicks.

[Brain Cancer]

Quote

I was actually told that people at my level should leave because we drag down other players.

That you're being put somewhere in the skill range nobody like yourself should be isn't your fault. You're bad relative to other players, there's nothing you can really do about it, OK. No blame there.

The real blame lies in a PSR/MM system that thinks you're supposed to be average and doesn't push you down tiers and as far away from T1 players (who are supposedly "better") as possible. This leads to you ending in games you're not even remotely going to do much in, causing frustration in players who expect being in higher tiers should mean players of similar skill levels.

I'd be honesty interested in what would happen if they reset you to T5 and if you'd end up floating back to T3.

[Dresari Iain]

Well if you limit yourself to trial mechs, hitting those posted match scores, KDR and W/L is gonna be only at hand for the pro gamers (the top of the top of tier 1 pilots).

In other words, people don't mention enough having a good build. Take the Wubmaster and go from there. If you think you'll get to tier 1 in trial mechs and without groups, you're either in the literal top 10 of active players, or fooling yourself.

And that's the problem with tiers. It doen't account how bad your mech/build is. It tells you how your mech's performance, combined with yours, places you relative to OTHER pilots. Then again you could imagine a world where every mwo player is truly great (like theB33f for example). The ones with the bad builds would sink to tier 5 eventually, because of their builds.



Would they be green rookies? No. They're on the same level as theB33f. AKA very good.

Now imagine a world where every mwo player can't shoot straight at all and even gets confused between allies/enemies, have no proper positioning, scatter across the map, you name it.
The ones with the Dakka Kodiak 3 will rather outperform the ones with the awesome, the dragons, the vindicators, the "insert poor mechs here". The Kodiak pilots eventually get to Tier 1.

Does that make them elite? No. They're complete beginners in need of learning again from scratch and unlearn every bad habit they have. But they're on Tier 1, because everyone is bad (in that imaginary world).

Put Baradul in a STD 100 Locust V and tell him to reach Tier 1 from TIer 3 in quickplay no groups. With the competition on tiers 3 and, worse, 2, no matter how good he is, other elite pilots will end him before he manages to score enough match score to rank up. Or heck, maybe he could succeed (I don't see how given the opposition and a bad mech). Might as well take a decade to get there in that case. Hitting the milestones some people give here is rather impossible in bad mechs (like trial mechs).


FInally, the tiers don't tell you whether tier 3 is good, average or bad. Being average relative to other players that are competitive gamers means you're on a competitive level.

So Tiers only tell you how efficient you (AND YOUR MECH) are COMPARED to other pilots (AND THEIR MECHS).I'm pretty sure being Tier 3 today is better than the lore "Regular" skill level. But rather Veteran.
Pretty sure Tier 2 is Elite.
And Tier 1 Natasha Kerensky, Kai Allard Liao, Bounty Hunter. Oliver Twohorse. Gray Norton. The legends of Battletech.
Tier 4? Regular.
TIer 5? Green.

All provided you're using the best builds available.


I strongly believe that we, on average, are way better pilots than our lore equivalents. Not because of some hidden talent mind you. We just get to practice, practice. A lot.

Not certain they have this much frequent combat practice.

[Dresari Iain]

XX Sulla XX, on 28 July 2016 - 11:52 AM, said:

Uhh OK. But between leaderboards and other information we have including the forums its pretty easy to get a feel for how you are doing. I think average KDR is .80. The very top people on the top teams tend to have KDRs that are high like 4-6 range along with top players even if they are not on top teams. What I consider good players should be able to keep KDRs around 2.0 and up. There will of course be some extreme outliers higher in the 10 or so KDR range. (Not counting the people playing a tiny number of games or doing secondary accounts to get extreme KDRS.) And yes KDR and win loss ratio is probably the best indicator if you play lots of games.

We have a huge tournament going with a large number of teams and we have a leaderboard with every players stats. And we have people on the forums that have gone through the stats and got the averages etc. So ya its not that hard to tell how you are doing compared to the rest of the player base.. Shoot you can even compare how you are doing by weightclass. And in future probably by mech.

Oh and as for getting better the simple trick is to find top players in the game and ask for help and take their advice. I have seen several players come in to this game and get with the right group of people and take advise and play smart and make amazing progress. Many groups like Emp also have special times and days when they help any one who wants to stop by and play with them. And most of the top players are more than happy to help any one that asks for it.

Also most of the people I see not improve do so because they choose not to. They choose not to seek out good advice. Or they tend not to take good advice. Or they are playing with some self imposed handicap like only wanting to play 4th rate builds and in a very noneffective way. Although if it makes some one happy to play that way fine. Although I have seen lots of people playing that way claiming its the best way to play and telling new players its how it should be done.

If the KDR must be a minimum of 2 then, by your definition, Baradul is a not a good pilot. Which is obviously not true.
https://leaderboard....earch?u=Baradul

Also it doesn't make sense expecting anyone to make 2 KDR consistently while fighting your equals. Because they're just as good as you are and, therefore, the KDR will be closer to 1.
True, tier 1s do fight tiers 3, which is a matchmaking mistake (but whatever); and that's the KDR farm.
Still, that's (see jarl list link above) not enough to get to a solid, consistend 2 KDR.

In other words, let's go with more reasonable expectations, shall we?
I'm personally doing 1.44 KDR lately. I don't feel like I'm doing poorly, especially given my STD-195 engine Mauler everyone ditches at every match start.

Also, achieving a 2 KDR while being Tier 5 means you're progressing. Given the opposition however, I would not have a smug face with a 2 KDR at that level, particularly in a good, 91/91 Wubmaster.

Edited by Dresari Iain, 25 March 2022 - 08:53 PM.

[Kanil]

Bruh this thread is 6 years old and the guy you're quoting hasn't been here for nearly two. wtf?

Also, 6 years ago was well before the PSR rework, where being tier 1 totally didn't mean you were fighting people of comparable skill levels to you, because getting to tier 1 was a matter of time, not skill. It's sure a lot easier to maintain 2 KDR when the matchmaker figures this potato who's potated for 4000 games and still hasn't learned anything is a valid player for the opposing team in T1.

Edited by Kanil, 25 March 2022 - 08:46 PM.

[Dresari Iain]

Kanil, on 25 March 2022 - 08:43 PM, said:

Bruh this thread is 6 years old and the guy you're quoting hasn't been here for nearly two. wtf?

Also, 6 years ago was well before the PSR rework, where being tier 1 totally didn't mean you were fighting people of comparable skill levels to you, because getting to tier 1 was a matter of time, not skill. It's sure a lot easier to maintain 2 KDR when the matchmaker figures this potato who's potated for 4000 games and still hasn't learned anything is a valid player for the opposing team in T1.

I'm not quoting to argue with the guy but rather help any newbie that happens to find false/outdated information.
DIdn't know getting 2 KDR was common then. Then again it doesn't matter.
What matters is what the game is now, and whether this thread, (which is just as valid a question today as it was then) gives up to date information. Which it did not, hence my input.
There, I justified the point of my previous two posts. Not that I had to either.