78 replies to this topic

[Deadeye254]

My highest scoring match is 3642 against puggys my 2k average I was counting is against 12mans I don't count pug stomping as being good at the game. I don't run long range in CW btw I use mid range builds and I never hide because I am the DC and in clans there leaders lead the charge that is the way I prefer to lead I wish some of my Ghost Bear brothers out there would back me up here and confirm this but it really doesn't matter because you guys will not listen to reason you would just come up some other insult this is why PGI pays no attention to these forums.

[Bud Crue]

Deadeye254, on 03 August 2016 - 03:57 AM, said:

I don't understand why so many people hate LT good god people this is the crybaby center of the universe grow up LT is available to both side there is no such thing as unbalanced when either side has an = chance of getting it just quit playing the game already I'm so tire of waking up every morning to the same crying over and over again don't you ppl ever get tired

Deadeye254, on 04 August 2016 - 03:59 AM, said:

I'm done arguing with you so called vets but I can understand why PGI refuses to listen to you I just wish they would have chose to stop listening to you crybabies years ago we would still have poptarting in the game I like a challenge I welcome LT is fun to drop against its a great equalizer for pugs vs units which in my opinion is exactly what this game needed if you just want to shoot **** play quick play or find another game for the love of god stop trolling up the forums with your crying.

Deadeye254, on 04 August 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

lol I bet I'm way better of a pilot than all of you Tier 1 btw incase you are interested and I average above 2k a match in CW so yeah I must be bad at the game what does that make you

Deadeye254, on 05 August 2016 - 04:15 AM, said:

My highest scoring match is 3642 against puggys my 2k average I was counting is against 12mans I don't count pug stomping as being good at the game. I don't run long range in CW btw I use mid range builds and I never hide because I am the DC and in clans there leaders lead the charge that is the way I prefer to lead I wish some of my Ghost Bear brothers out there would back me up here and confirm this but it really doesn't matter because you guys will not listen to reason you would just come up some other insult this is why PGI pays no attention to these forums.

Deadeye,

The discussion is about the long tom, the problems it represents as a game play mechanism and the detrimental effect it is having on the FP game play as well as the effect it is having in driving both pugs and units away from the mode as well.

Your statement above that you "welcome the long tom" suggests that you believe the long tom provides a benefit to the game in some manner, yet you have provided no support for this position other than to say you "like a challenge".

While your assertions that those with whom you disagree are "crybabies" may somehow be relevant, nevertheless you have yet to describe why you think the long tom is a benefit to the game. Most of your posts appear to have nothing to do with that issue and instead include repeated braggadocio regarding your own abilities at scoring. I believe all of us reading this thread fail to see what your personal skill level has to do with the long tom and its affects on the game.

Yet, despite your failure to actually discuss the presumed merits of the long tom, you conclude that those criticizing you "will not listen to reason". Well, as far as I can tell from your posts above, you have yet to actually state a reason why you believe the long tom is indeed a "welcome" addition to the game.

Please provide your rationale and then perhaps we might understand your point of view.

Edit: I'm terribad player and would sincerely like to understand how a Vet player such as yourself sees how the long tom could benefit someone like me. So any help you can provide in understanding this would of course be useful.

Edited by Bud Crue, 05 August 2016 - 04:53 AM.

[Hotthedd]

xengk, on 04 August 2016 - 11:15 PM, said:

Something out of the damage tangent.

Reinforcement
Supply chain is established and fresh mechs can be fly in to bolster the frontline.
At 90% scouting, all player on the controlling side get 1 destroyed mech repair every X minute.

Example; every 10 minutes, the first destroyed mech, counting from the right, in the drop deck is made available again.

Oh Hell No!

It is completely against the BT universe, any actual reality in physics, and terrible game design.

[Pat Kell]

Deadeye254, on 05 August 2016 - 04:07 AM, said:

Ask any Ghost Bear player I lead every push look it doesn't matter how good I am just because you disagree with my position I'm a baddy that's the dumbest thing I have ever herd Pat I really have a lot of respect for you and your unit but you are making it hard for me to continue this respect I have never dropped with you or against you but yet you seem t have passed judgment on what kind of player I am what ever happened to actually stating facts in a argument instead of bashing the guy that does not agree with you. The reason why I like LT is simple last night BNB hit New Oslo we smashed everything in our path had the planet to 46% then the Ghost Bear puggies woke up started dropping in less than an hour the lost every tile but the one we were defending down to 7% now I love Ghost Bear this is were I want to fight but I also want to take planets but with pugs as bad as ours we need an enabler so they don't lose all our progress so quickly yes I think it should be nerfed but not removed that's all I understand if you don't agree but there's no need to call me a bad player because of my position on this yes I called you whiners but it was because you were whining I'm not playing bad so why are you calling me a bad player. And BTW the reason why Ghost Bear is doing so much better is because of my unit and leadership ask any one of them they will confirm this.

Never called you a bad player. I was simply stating that having a 2k score doesn't impress me because there are several ways to get that score. If you lead from the front then that is fantastic but please understand it was not my intention to insult you, just pointing out that your score is achievable several ways and also that it really has nothing to do with the long tom.

If the Ghost Bear pugs are truly this bad, maybe we should spend some time allowing them into our drops and showing them the ropes. I appreciate you being able to admit that your true reason for long tom is based out of concern for yourself as I understand what it's like to drop a planet to 46% and then have it all taken away by people coming in and playing poorly, losing the tile. It is frustrating to the extreme. With that said though, I have spent the last 3 nights in ghost bear getting multiple (8-10) ghost drops a night while trying to help you guys out. Long Tom wasn't present at the time but I truly believe it was one of the things that have driven people away from fighting you guys. If you want matches and if you want a chance you help your pugs improve, you will need to stop getting long tom, they will have to remove it or else no one will come and fight you. Not sure what else to say about it. Hopefully we get to play in some drops together sometime and we can trade strategies.

[Baulven]

Pat Kell, on 05 August 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

Never called you a bad player. I was simply stating that having a 2k score doesn't impress me because there are several ways to get that score. If you lead from the front then that is fantastic but please understand it was not my intention to insult you, just pointing out that your score is achievable several ways and also that it really has nothing to do with the long tom.

If the Ghost Bear pugs are truly this bad, maybe we should spend some time allowing them into our drops and showing them the ropes. I appreciate you being able to admit that your true reason for long tom is based out of concern for yourself as I understand what it's like to drop a planet to 46% and then have it all taken away by people coming in and playing poorly, losing the tile. It is frustrating to the extreme. With that said though, I have spent the last 3 nights in ghost bear getting multiple (8-10) ghost drops a night while trying to help you guys out. Long Tom wasn't present at the time but I truly believe it was one of the things that have driven people away from fighting you guys. If you want matches and if you want a chance you help your pugs improve, you will need to stop getting long tom, they will have to remove it or else no one will come and fight you. Not sure what else to say about it. Hopefully we get to play in some drops together sometime and we can trade strategies.

Primarily out pigs in CGB are bad for two reasons. 1.) Standard new guys and fresh in the game guys (which is fine all they need is some help and guidance), and the one I actually find most aggravating 2.) Our experienced pugs don't play FP normally because 80% of the clan refuses to attack wolf.

He'll the people in group 2 were whining we weren't attacking wolf when they had no planets to take, which would have done precisely nothing to help us advance or perform. If you want examples of it check the CGB archives for the last couple of months.

[DaFrog]

I really really really.... don't care anymore .

[Deadeye254]

Well said Pat now that everyone has calmed down we can continue this discussion if long tom was to be removed the reward for reaching 90% would have to be great because otherwise it would make scouting worthless there has got to be some way to nerf it without killing it. That was the point I was trying to make.

[Pat Kell]

Deadeye254, on 05 August 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Well said Pat now that everyone has calmed down we can continue this discussion if long tom was to be removed the reward for reaching 90% would have to be great because otherwise it would make scouting worthless there has got to be some way to nerf it without killing it. That was the point I was trying to make.

It might be too late to so any kind of nerf that would be accepted by more than a few. I agree that getting to 90% should be powerful and worth spending the time needed to get it but I don't think it should be something that decides the victors of 95%+ of the matches it is involved in.

[Sjorpha]

Deadeye254, on 05 August 2016 - 09:07 PM, said:

Well said Pat now that everyone has calmed down we can continue this discussion if long tom was to be removed the reward for reaching 90% would have to be great because otherwise it would make scouting worthless there has got to be some way to nerf it without killing it. That was the point I was trying to make.

I'll repeat myself here, but the main problem with the Long Tom is that you can't avoid it with anything except the fastest light mechs, and even then you'll have slower teammates getting killed so it makes no difference.

If you had enough time to get away and/or could use cover to avoid the blast then it would be ok to have Long Tom stay very powerful, because it would be up to the players to avoid it and you could rightly blame yourself if you get killed by it.

So that is the way to fix Long Tom without nerfing it, make it interactive so that you can counter, avoid and play around it properly. Simply make sure that players never feel that: "there was nothing I could do"

Edited by Sjorpha, 06 August 2016 - 12:52 AM.

[MischiefSC]

Pat Kell, on 05 August 2016 - 11:30 PM, said:

It might be too late to so any kind of nerf that would be accepted by more than a few. I agree that getting to 90% should be powerful and worth spending the time needed to get it but I don't think it should be something that decides the victors of 95%+ of the matches it is involved in.

Why.

I mean it.

Is scouting just terrible, unfun and nobody would want to play it if it didn't give a big reward in Invasion?

Because no matter what it does if it's decisive or even really significant it'll do the same thing. Empty invasion queue. Given that 4v4 will never be as balanced as 48v48 scouting should fill the same role in FW that Conquest/Domination/Assault fill in QuickPlay. It's another gamemode to play. You don't make people win 90% of Domination matches get a critical advantage when they play Skirmish, right?

If scouting provides a decisive or even really strong advantage then the results will be exactly what they are now.

[Pat Kell]

MischiefSC, on 06 August 2016 - 06:01 PM, said:

Why.

I mean it.

Is scouting just terrible, unfun and nobody would want to play it if it didn't give a big reward in Invasion?

Because no matter what it does if it's decisive or even really significant it'll do the same thing. Empty invasion queue. Given that 4v4 will never be as balanced as 48v48 scouting should fill the same role in FW that Conquest/Domination/Assault fill in QuickPlay. It's another gamemode to play. You don't make people win 90% of Domination matches get a critical advantage when they play Skirmish, right?

If scouting provides a decisive or even really strong advantage then the results will be exactly what they are now.

The whole point of a scouting mode was to provide a means to have an outside effect on Invasion mode. I understand and agree with your arguments on balancing but I am also aware of the fact that PGI is not going to get rid of it's impact on invasion. So my next step is to try to limit it to something that can be overcome somewhat successfully. Long Tom requires a lot of coordination to overcome, something that most teams won't be able to do plus it is just not fun to watch the computer kill all the enemies for you. I guess I have accepted that scouting is here to stay and the only way I can get rid of long tom is convince PGI that it can be replaced with something powerful but not game deciding...if that makes sense.

[blackbullitt]

i believe it was best said by a clan outfit at the round table, i have never had to face long tom! well wonder why? op clan vs is mechs duh! scouting broken, way one sided advantage. yes long tom failed experiment, stupid get rid of it. russ so happy with the mushroom cloud it is so cool, wow sounded like a teenager.
also they are not getting any more of my money till there is a concentrated effort to level playing field. i have both types of mechs and it is easy to see the clan advantages. if you say there is not you are either lying or delusional.
this is and can be a great game but they are killing it with their emotions over logic.

[BearFlag]

Pat Kell, on 06 August 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

The whole point of a scouting mode was to provide a means to have an outside effect on Invasion mode. I understand and agree with your arguments on balancing but I am also aware of the fact that PGI is not going to get rid of it's impact on invasion. So my next step is to try to limit it to something that can be overcome somewhat successfully. Long Tom requires a lot of coordination to overcome, something that most teams won't be able to do plus it is just not fun to watch the computer kill all the enemies for you. I guess I have accepted that scouting is here to stay and the only way I can get rid of long tom is convince PGI that it can be replaced with something powerful but not game deciding...if that makes sense.

PGI's belief that players need a compelling "reason" to play Scout is misguided. I play it because it's a blast, it's FUN. I have somewhere around 1100 Scout missions. Not everyone agrees it's fun, but then I (and 90% of players) can't stand Invasion/CA for its imbalance, double death, chokepoint carnage, spawn camping, repetitious "mode" silliness. Even so, I play it now and then and during events (about 400 matches).

I understand (and agree) that Scout should have some impact on Invasion (FW is ~supposed~ to have integration), but...

The effect that 90% Scout advantage has on the battlefield - and everyone but Russ agrees - is:
1) way too potent (Game impact way out of scale)
2) too random (It can fall any where - but seems to target players whose name starts with 'B')
3) too impersonal (It is RNG NPC Sky God death)

Some of the intel solutions to intel victory are good ones and some can be combined for greater affect if Russ still believes it should be BIG. But I think a variation of the global UAV idea is potent enough.

Simply extend the satellite sweep. For each percentage of Scout advantage over 70% add one second to the sweep up to a maximum of 35 seconds. This is graded proportionally to 100% but falls short of the permanent UAV idea. I think most would agree that this is a huge advantage. As it is the five second sweep tells you what, how many and where the enemy is. Pretty useful.

As it extends, LRMs (presently an uncommon sight) would become more useful to the advantaged team. Even without LRMs 35 seconds of 'eyes on' is huge. LRM damage is better, IMO, because:
1) it's player v. player
2) it's (usually) slight
3) it can be mitigated (stop, take cover)

At 15+ seconds would LRMaggeddon be a problem? Maybe. But I'd rather hunker down through the storm than get killed by Sky God Tom. The cost to the disadvantaged team of LRM storm is either damage (ignore it) or disruption (take cover). Seems reasonable.

Edited by BearFlag, 07 August 2016 - 02:38 PM.

[Pat Kell]

BearFlag, on 07 August 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

2) too random (It can fall any where - but seems to target players whose name starts with 'B')

LOL, that's funny right there.

[Zauberberg]

Cazidin, you are a useless and incompetent troll. You have played 5 FP Games since Phase 3 and have no clue what you are talking about. The new Leaderboards are a nice thing!

cazidin, on 02 August 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

Fix the Long Tom. You don't need to remove it.

Edited by Ingenieur, 07 August 2016 - 03:29 PM.

[MischiefSC]

Pat Kell, on 06 August 2016 - 08:53 PM, said:

The whole point of a scouting mode was to provide a means to have an outside effect on Invasion mode. I understand and agree with your arguments on balancing but I am also aware of the fact that PGI is not going to get rid of it's impact on invasion. So my next step is to try to limit it to something that can be overcome somewhat successfully. Long Tom requires a lot of coordination to overcome, something that most teams won't be able to do plus it is just not fun to watch the computer kill all the enemies for you. I guess I have accepted that scouting is here to stay and the only way I can get rid of long tom is convince PGI that it can be replaced with something powerful but not game deciding...if that makes sense.

My concern is that if whatever replaces it is just as relevant we'll be right back here just with a 'well, we tried, you guys just hate everything' factor to attempting to resolve it further.

Scouting should have an impact, it just can't have a significant one or we're going to be right back here. Nobody will want to play against 'IT', whatever 'IT' is if it's comparable to LT. Even if it does no damage but largely ensures a win for whoever has it.

I do not have any reason I can identify why I should trust that the changes PGI implements will work out well when left to their own devices. There's no historical basis involved here for me to say 'well, we've told PGI we don't like LT so whatever they put in will work out fine'.

[Pat Kell]

MischiefSC, on 07 August 2016 - 11:19 PM, said:

My concern is that if whatever replaces it is just as relevant we'll be right back here just with a 'well, we tried, you guys just hate everything' factor to attempting to resolve it further.

Scouting should have an impact, it just can't have a significant one or we're going to be right back here. Nobody will want to play against 'IT', whatever 'IT' is if it's comparable to LT. Even if it does no damage but largely ensures a win for whoever has it.

I do not have any reason I can identify why I should trust that the changes PGI implements will work out well when left to their own devices. There's no historical basis involved here for me to say 'well, we've told PGI we don't like LT so whatever they put in will work out fine'.

I am afraid of just this thing as well and I think you may be right about it's possibilities as when during the town hall Russ said that scouting must have a 90% bonus that is powerful. I know there are several balancing things that can help as long as they start out minor and don't do the whole major swing to one side or the other that they have been prone to do in the past. I also agree that if it's so powerful that it decides 95+% of the matches it's in, it will be too powerful but I think there is a way for it to be powerful and still not decide most of the games it's in, whatever "it" is. I hope that's the case but yea, I understand your hesitancy to believe it's possible.

[Spartan 04]

I haven't played Faction Play since I stopped playing MWO many, many moons ago (not that I played a lot...), but this Long Tom thing sounds terrifying. If I understand correctly, it's like a pocket nuke, detonated at regular intervals? Man, I'm all for rewarding good teams that spent time and credits taking objectives, but that would kill interest in FP play right quick for me (as someone who only has time for sporadic casual play and wouldn't want to sign up just to have unspeakable things done to him from orbit...)

Completely outside my element here for game mechanics, but would something like the Mavor from Supreme Commander work? Like a semi-constant, delayed impact artillery/rocket bombardment that can be directed from... someone? Good for pushing area denial and/or confusion amongst the ranks?

[Tavious Grimm]

I've suggested this in another thread, replace the Long Tom with the Arrow IV Missile Battery. When you unlock it you are given 8 missiles, (2 per wave) The drop commander has full control on when and at whom the missile is targeted at. In order to actually fire it, you must maintain no less then a 10 second lock to guide it in. (Or use Tag?) Not as devastating as an LT strike, more of a precision strike.

Just my two C-Bills worth.