120 replies to this topic

[dario03]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

@moneyBURNER
lets not pretend SSRMs are some Great weapon system,
a Full Face Tanked SkillCrow Volley cant even Kill a Face tanking LCT in one hit,
and then you have 4 seconds to get away, most lights can do it,
(Lights < SkillCrow < Heavies < Assaults < Lights)
Edit- Spelling,

Unless they changed something streaks hit randomly. So that is going to depend on the locust and RNG. A locust 1e has at the very most 30hp on its side torso so if half of the streak missiles hit that spot its dead if xl. Maybe not very likely but it could happen and not everybody runs zero back armor. Plus if it doesn't kill it can very well almost kill so even if you run away you might die the next time someone looks in your direction.

Also
lights<assaults

Edited by dario03, 30 July 2016 - 02:24 PM.

[Kadreal]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

@moneyBURNER
lets not pretend SSRMs are some Great weapon system,
a Full Face Tanked SkillCrow Volley cant even Kill a Face tanking LCT in one hit,
and then you have 4 seconds to get away, most lights can do it,
(Lights < SkillCrow < Heavies < Assaults < Lights)
Edit- Spelling,

Are you thinking of a different locust, or a different weapon? I've been one shot by a Skillcrow Lite (only 4 SSRM 6s) while face tanking him. 5 X 6 X 2 Damage each is 60 damage in a single volley. Even the Locust's center torso (with max front armor) caps out at 36 Hit points. The sides clock in at 30 Hit points. That is well within the range of getting one shot if you get unlucky spread, and you are unlikely to survive a second volley.

Also, run away while face tanking? Let's do some quick math on Keeping your torso directly facing the Skill crow while you run full tilt. Since the Locust doesn't have 180 degree torso twist, it won't be able to take full advantage of it's speed while fleeing with it's torso facing directly at the skill crow.

My mastered Peanut Butter has 126 Degree torso twist. So the angle of disengagement from the skill crow is going to be 180 -126 or 54 degrees.

To find what component of our velocity will be moving aware from the skill crow instead of tangent, we take the Cos.

Cos(54) or 58.8%

LCT speed with Speed tweak = 165.4

Total disengagement speed = 97.2 KPH

Which surprisingly enough, is exactly the base speed on the Storm Crow.

Now, you could simply turn to face tank only when you know he is about ready to fire. But he can also hold his fire until he sees you turn away. A Speed tweaked Skill Crow will actually GAIN on you while you are face tanking.

And if the Skillcrow catches you with a side shot, you are probably going to die since the tiny arms don't protect the side torso very much.

Edited by Kadreal, 30 July 2016 - 02:42 PM.

[Brain Cancer]

LordNothing, on 30 July 2016 - 04:22 AM, said:

is streaks are still useless. i put 9 of them in an archer and didnt get one light kill with them. i put back my srm4s back on and started smashing mechs again.

Math makes that pretty obvious. You have 60% of the firepower of a Streakcrow on something 15 tons heavier. IS Streaks favoring torso hits would make them somewhat more effective, and Streaks targeting becoming more and more torso-favored as the target gets bigger would make all Streaks better. 36 damage scattered over every location on a heavy isn't much, but the same amount mostly hitting center-left-right torso would actually be noticeable.

[Andi Nagasia]

dario03, on 30 July 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Unless they changed something streaks hit randomly. So that is going to depend on the locust and RNG. A locust 1e has at the very most 30hp on its side torso so if half of the streak missiles hit that spot its dead if xl. Maybe not very likely but it could happen and not everybody runs zero back armor. Plus if it doesn't kill it can very well almost kill so even if you run away you might die the next time someone looks in your direction.

Also
lights<assaults

Streaks dont hit really hit Randomly,
Streaks will never aim for the Head Location,
and they are programed to lockon to the Mechs remaining 6 Locations,
it is possible for them to over lap but no more than 2 missiles can go to a singe location,
so in that no more than 4 damage can be dealt to a single component with a single SSRM6,
thats no more than 20 Damage Max into your ST if you get very unlucky, so how do Streaks Easily Kill Lights?
when a Light Pilot Twists it forces all the Torso Aiming Streak(could be 10-30damage) into one ST,
so its the Light Pilots own Survival Instincts that cause Streaks to be overly Effective,

go into testing grounds with a Streak Crow,
face a Target Head on and Fire at it 1SSRM6 at a time into the target and you will see:
1) the HD location is never hit,
2) no more than 2 Missiles will ever hit a single Location,

move to the side and repeat,
you will see the Difference, its best to Face a SSRM mech,
not Charge them, but always look at them as the missiles fly at you,

[Stone Wall]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Streaks dont hit really hit Randomly,
Streaks will never aim for the Head Location,
and they are programed to lockon to the Mechs remaining 6 Locations,
it is possible for them to over lap but no more than 2 missiles can go to a singe location,
so in that no more than 4 damage can be dealt to a single component with a single SSRM6,
thats no more than 20 Damage Max into your ST if you get very unlucky, so how do Streaks Easily Kill Lights?
when a Light Pilot Twists it forces all the Torso Aiming Streak(could be 10-30damage) into one ST,
so its the Light Pilots own Survival Instincts that cause Streaks to be overly Effective,

go into testing grounds with a Streak Crow,
face a Target Head on and Fire at it 1SSRM6 at a time into the target and you will see:
1) the HD location is never hit,
2) no more than 2 Missiles will ever hit a single Location,

move to the side and repeat,
you will see the Difference, its best to Face a SSRM mech,
not Charge them, but always look at them as the missiles fly at you,

that's good to know. i learned something today.

[dario03]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Streaks dont hit really hit Randomly,
Streaks will never aim for the Head Location,
and they are programed to lockon to the Mechs remaining 6 Locations,
it is possible for them to over lap but no more than 2 missiles can go to a singe location,
so in that no more than 4 damage can be dealt to a single component with a single SSRM6,
thats no more than 20 Damage Max into your ST if you get very unlucky, so how do Streaks Easily Kill Lights?
when a Light Pilot Twists it forces all the Torso Aiming Streak(could be 10-30damage) into one ST,
so its the Light Pilots own Survival Instincts that cause Streaks to be overly Effective,

go into testing grounds with a Streak Crow,
face a Target Head on and Fire at it 1SSRM6 at a time into the target and you will see:
1) the HD location is never hit,
2) no more than 2 Missiles will ever hit a single Location,

move to the side and repeat,
you will see the Difference, its best to Face a SSRM mech,
not Charge them, but always look at them as the missiles fly at you,

I know streaks don't hit the head. But when was the no more then 2 missiles hit a single location put in?

[moneyBURNER]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 02:17 PM, said:

for a JR7 its even Easier as its a Larger Target, the SSRMs are more likely to spread about,
also to my Knowledge other than the JR7-O, JR7 Agility Stats didnt Change with the Rescale,
only their Movement Type Changed, which Only changed its hill Climb angle(40* to 35*),
also with this most recent Patch we saw almost all JR7s get another Agility Boost,

so your (giant walking toilet) should be more worried about Stuff targeting its CT,
not SSRMs that share the love no matter how big Certain Hitboxes are,

A proportionally larger CT makes it easier to catch those missiles.

Your logic seems backwards to me. Smaller, more compact hitboxes spread damage more effectively against many types of weapons.

And I'm very much concerned about an absolutely massive alpha wrecking my armor and destroying a weakened area that I would be trying to protect, from any random player that I wouldn't expect to instantly wreck me with superior aim.

[Andi Nagasia]

dario03, on 30 July 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

I know streaks don't hit the head. But when was the no more then 2 missiles hit a single location put in?

actually not sure when it was or if it was always there,
i noticed they dont, when me and my Unit where doing Stream Boat Tests some Months ago,
i just tested in in testing Ground to make sure thats still accurate and it is,

moneyBURNER, on 30 July 2016 - 02:51 PM, said:

A proportionally larger CT makes it easier to catch those missiles.

Your logic seems backwards to me. Smaller, more compact hitboxes spread damage more effectively against many types of weapons.

And I'm very much concerned about an absolutely massive alpha wrecking my armor and destroying a weakened area that I would be trying to protect, from any random player that I wouldn't expect to instantly wreck me with superior aim.

we arnt talking about Player Aimed Weapons but Guided weapons,
the Larger you are the more Wiggle Room you have for Tanking Streaks,
a very Small Mech will have to almost Face the Streak boat to ensure Full Spread,
a Larger Light can look more to the side as the Streaks aim for the Center Mass(HitBoxes)
Edit- Spelling,

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 30 July 2016 - 02:56 PM.

[moneyBURNER]

It's also very hard to facetank properly when you're trying to run away or turn for cover, which is what I meant by "unfortunate evasive maneuvers" in my first post when you catch missles in a weak location.

[Andi Nagasia]

moneyBURNER, on 30 July 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

It's also very hard to facetank properly when you're trying to run away or turn for cover, which is what I meant by "unfortunate evasive maneuvers" in my first post when you catch missles in a weak location.

Very True, its not in any way easy but when i happen across a Streak boat i listen for the Missile Sound,
then Turn to Face, let it hit me than turn back and get the hell out of the Area or behind an Obstruction,
i know once i hear the sound i have 4 seconds before they can fire again so i can relax & work on escaping,

[dario03]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

actually not sure when it was or if it was always there,
i noticed they dont, when me and my Unit where doing Stream Boat Tests some Months ago,
i just tested in in testing Ground to make sure thats still accurate and it is,


we arnt talking about Player Aimed Weapons but Guided weapons,
the Larger you are the more Wiggle Room you have for Tanking Streaks,
a very Small Mech will have to almost Face the Streak boat to ensure Full Spread,
a Larger Light can look more to the side as the Streaks aim for the Center Mass(HitBoxes)
Edit- Spelling,

Well in my experience it definitely hasn't always been that way since I've had almost all streaks hit one spot before. And if they didn't announce the change I wouldn't be sure that they did.

[Razorfish]

mariomanz28, on 30 July 2016 - 06:08 AM, said:

Pretty much every other weapon in the game is an anti-medium, anti-heavy, and anti-assault weapon.

Streak SRMs are the ONLY weapon that actually ignores lag shield. Light mechs and maybe the faster mediums (CDA, VPR, etc) are the only mechs in the game that get lag shield. Ever put an AC/20 round into the face of a moving light only for the paper doll to flash and the armor barely change color? Yeah no other mechs get that. So maybe when lights aren't the only ones in the game to get a shield due to poor netcode, then maybe we won't need things in the game like "anti-light" weapons.

Also SSRMs used to ALWAYS target the CT. It was bad. The only reason SSRMs are an anti-light weapon as was mentioned is because they counter lag shield, otherwise there is really no reason to use them because they do terrible damage compared to regular SRMs.

Nice post. Well stated.

[His Holiness Pope Buster]

Bush Hopper, on 30 July 2016 - 04:01 AM, said:

Since streaks hardcounter light mechs completely, how about making things fair? Let streaks hit automatically the CT of heavies and assaults. That way they take the same amount of salvos from them like light mechs.

If this sounds horrible to you then ask yourself why it is acceptable for a light mech to get blown up within 2-3 salvos by streak boats while it doesn't apply to the heavier mech classes.

What about giving lights structure and mobility buffs and maybe shrinking them a little?

[FupDup]

His Holiness Pope Buster, on 30 July 2016 - 03:46 PM, said:

What about giving lights structure and mobility buffs and maybe shrinking them a little?

That would be neat, but Pea Gee Eye won't allow it.

[dario03]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 02:56 PM, said:

actually not sure when it was or if it was always there,
i noticed they dont, when me and my Unit where doing Stream Boat Tests some Months ago,
i just tested in in testing Ground to make sure thats still accurate and it is,


we arnt talking about Player Aimed Weapons but Guided weapons,
the Larger you are the more Wiggle Room you have for Tanking Streaks,
a very Small Mech will have to almost Face the Streak boat to ensure Full Spread,
a Larger Light can look more to the side as the Streaks aim for the Center Mass(HitBoxes)
Edit- Spelling,

So at the end of a couple of matches I was able to test this out a bit in regular matches. I'm going to say that more than 2 missiles can hit a spot. I have had almost all missiles hit the CT on my Jenner IIc when face tanking the few times that I tried.

[Darian DelFord]

FupDup, on 30 July 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

Those two are the primary symptoms of the issue, but the true underlying issue (the "disease") is the combination of easy lock-on mechanics and hitbox targeting that is divorced from aiming. Those two launchers just benefit the most from the issue.

He gets it

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 12:18 PM, said:

so what id w Nerf Streak 4/6s?
now Streaks go from being viable against lights to not Viable vs anything?
the Whole lock on Targeting mechanic needs a rework, i think PTS Info Warfare needs to come back,

Not really.... I have no issue with streaks being great agisnt lights. I have an issue when one alpha can damn near cripple most lights.

I have an issue when a lock on mechanic that is bugged to all heck and back.

PhoenixFire55, on 30 July 2016 - 12:51 PM, said:

Game modes - yes. Objectives - yes. Weapons - no. Convergence - maybe. Lights are weak in a fight, as they should be. Lights are strong at moving around, spotting, scouting etc. as they should be. Once again, game should provide viable objectives for lights, not nerf everything and anything (including lights btw) to accomodate for their weakness.

PhoenixFire55, on 30 July 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

No. They work at limited range, noboby is forcing you to come into that range, just like nobody is forcing you to facetank mechs when you have regular PPCs or LRMs. Lights aren't supposed to leghump bigger mechs, deal with it please. You know well enough the a decent player in a laservomit mech will take your light our much faster than any streakboat and at bigger range, let alone someone with 2xGauss+2xERPPC Kodiak and hands growing from right places.

You seriously need to get some experience playing a light mech.... It is very obvious you do not

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 01:39 PM, said:

Face Tanking an SSRM Swarm can save your life,
even an LCT, can Face Tank 3 Alphas from a SkillCrow(5SSRM6),
thats 12 seconds of Skill Crow Reloading to Get away and save your self,

the thing is Lots of Novice Light Pilots dont have good situational Awareness, or how to handle SSRMs,
if you see, a Mech you think has SSRMs, Press® and see if it does, if it doesnt Avoid it like the Plague,
also if your getting shot at by SSRMs dont Twist, that will only Force all the Missiles to hit one side,

A locust can not face tank 3 alphas from a Streak Crow by no means. 1 alpha and he is almost useless depending on the RNG. The problem is due to light mechs tonnage restrictions to do any damage to the crow we have to be within weapons range. Smart streakers will save s abit of ammo incase there is that one light that is left. There is very little the light can do about it.

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

@moneyBURNER
lets not pretend SSRMs are some Great weapon system,
a Full Face Tanked SkillCrow Volley cant even Kill a Face tanking LCT in one hit,
and then you have 4 seconds to get away, most lights can do it,
(Lights < SkillCrow < Heavies < Assaults < Lights)
Edit- Spelling,

Ummmm you keep using a locust as an example. I am sorry but no..... Even a Jenner will be in trouble against a streak crow

The core of the streak issue is two fold.

1. Artemis gives them a free buff at absouteyly no penalty to the mech.

2. The sheer amount you can boat

3. The system iself is deadly against lights and can put a hurting on most other mediums. Though Mediums have the ability to close and survive. Lights do not have that option due to the way the targeting works

Andi Nagasia, on 30 July 2016 - 02:45 PM, said:

Streaks dont hit really hit Randomly,
Streaks will never aim for the Head Location,
and they are programed to lockon to the Mechs remaining 6 Locations,
it is possible for them to over lap but no more than 2 missiles can go to a singe location,
so in that no more than 4 damage can be dealt to a single component with a single SSRM6,
thats no more than 20 Damage Max into your ST if you get very unlucky, so how do Streaks Easily Kill Lights?
when a Light Pilot Twists it forces all the Torso Aiming Streak(could be 10-30damage) into one ST,
so its the Light Pilots own Survival Instincts that cause Streaks to be overly Effective,

go into testing grounds with a Streak Crow,
face a Target Head on and Fire at it 1SSRM6 at a time into the target and you will see:
1) the HD location is never hit,
2) no more than 2 Missiles will ever hit a single Location,

move to the side and repeat,
you will see the Difference, its best to Face a SSRM mech,
not Charge them, but always look at them as the missiles fly at you,

I think you need to retest that..... Other than the head.... they hit randomly... there is no hard cap to the number of missiles that can hit a certain location....

dario03, on 30 July 2016 - 03:16 PM, said:

Well in my experience it definitely hasn't always been that way since I've had almost all streaks hit one spot before. And if they didn't announce the change I wouldn't be sure that they did.

its still not

[dario03]

Darian DelFord, on 31 July 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

its still not

Yeah like I said I've tested it in game and they definitely can hit more than 2 missiles per launcher per spot. I've had almost all hit CT a bunch of times and just had almost all hit a single leg on a Jenner IIc (went from orange armor to no leg). And when I say almost all I mean almost all, as in a couple of other spots light up but they either don't change color or only do slightly.

[moneyBURNER]

I've been instakilled in a 100% fresh jenner with all SSRMs going to a single location (the most recent memory is losing a rear side torso).

[Andi Nagasia]

Darian DelFord, on 31 July 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

Not really.... I have no issue with streaks being great agisnt lights. I have an issue when one alpha can damn near cripple most lights.

I have an issue when a lock on mechanic that is bugged to all heck and back.

Agreed the infoWarfare PST had alot of good Fixes to the System, before it was Put on Ice,
Most Lights had an a (Radar Delay Time) Lights like the LCT & JN7 had 1-3seconds,
which means you had to look at them for 1-3seconds before a dorito would appear,

Darian DelFord, on 31 July 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

A locust can not face tank 3 alphas from a Streak Crow by no means. 1 alpha and he is almost useless depending on the RNG. The problem is due to light mechs tonnage restrictions to do any damage to the crow we have to be within weapons range. Smart streakers will save s abit of ammo incase there is that one light that is left. There is very little the light can do about it.

a LCT with out any Quirks has 30ST-Hp & 36CT-Hp, With Quirks its more,
a StreakCrow(5SSRM6) with Balanced RNGesus each location would take 10 damage,
so its possible to survive 3SkillCrow Alphas in a LCT, or perhaps a LCT can Survive 30Damage to its ST/CT,

Darian DelFord, on 31 July 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

Ummmm you keep using a locust as an example. I am sorry but no..... Even a Jenner will be in trouble against a streak crow

The core of the streak issue is two fold.

1. Artemis gives them a free buff at absouteyly no penalty to the mech.
2. The sheer amount you can boat
3. The system iself is deadly against lights and can put a hurting on most other mediums. Though Mediums have the ability to close and survive. Lights do not have that option due to the way the targeting works

i use the LCT as its the Smallest Light in the Game in so has the least Hp,
i also have all by 4 armor front loaded to that could also be effecting how i play,
-
not Many Mediums can Effectively Boat SSRM6 as the Weight and Ammo Problems,
SkillCrows are Lucky in that they can boat 5SSRM6 with Decent Ammo, but once that runs out their useless,

Darian DelFord, on 31 July 2016 - 06:27 AM, said:

I think you need to retest that..... Other than the head.... they hit randomly... there is no hard cap to the number of missiles that can hit a certain location....

i have Tested it out alot, tested with a Skill Crow(Striped Armor) 17Tons of ammo,
Chain Fired at an Atlas and recorded the video, played it back at 1/4 Speed and watched,
every volley had only 2 missiles at most hitting a single Component,
i used an Atlas as its the biggest and easiest to follow the missiles,

[Andi Nagasia]

moneyBURNER, on 31 July 2016 - 12:24 PM, said:

I've been instakilled in a 100% fresh jenner with all SSRMs going to a single location (the most recent memory is losing a rear side torso).

well than thats the Problem, my LCTs armor is mostly Front Loaded with only 2-4 on the back,
a stock JN7 has 8Rear armor and 16InternalStructure so thats Roughly 24 Total Health,
even my Tests 20Damage hitting the Back of your ST, that would only leave 4Hp left,
if you twisted you could have easily migrated 2-3missles from your CT into your ST,
24-26damage to your Back ST = Death,