77 replies to this topic

[Bishop Steiner]

Gorith, on 24 July 2012 - 02:13 PM, said:

Difference of view to me the one you posted while looking like a nice weapon it doesn't look bulky enough to be a heavy Looks a little flimsy and frail to me... a combination of the two would be great weaponlike and bulky

It's about as bulky as the Madcat, minus the missle pods.

[Gorith]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

It's about as bulky as the Madcat, minus the missle pods.

I think it's the cockpit (seems oversized) and uper arms (not bulky enouth) that make it feel that way to me. Just my opinion while very well done and nice looking it feels like a lighter medium to me.

Edited by Gorith, 24 July 2012 - 02:34 PM.

[Dredhawk]

All the version posted look good to me im not picky person.....I think the second one looks the best out of the 3 posted....

[SyberSmoke]

Dredhawk, on 24 July 2012 - 02:34 PM, said:

All the version posted look good to me im not picky person.....I think the second one looks the best out of the 3 posted....

I agree that the second looks very good, probably original Fasa colored art. That cockpit would still just be hell to fight with.

[Rychard Starheart]

Otto Cannon, on 17 July 2012 - 11:48 AM, said:

Bishop Steiner, on 24 July 2012 - 12:21 PM, said:

or this.....


but thats only if you want one that doesn't look like a robot ostrich, or been or been spending too much time at an all you can eat buffet.

#1 Looks like a flat faced pug and has no menace to it as well as getting beating by a whole ugly tree.

#2. Fat. ***. It looks like someone straped a bunch of guns on fat albert and then beat him with a stick.

#3 Just screams "I will **** you up". Seriously. I would pay real money for one of these.

Edited by Rychard Starheart, 24 July 2012 - 02:48 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Well, I know that it will be impossible for one design to please all, and knew it when I started my quest. Heck, let's not forget the polarizing love/hate the Unseens generate period. I ain't looking for a one upmanship, but what I tried to do, was capture the feel and look of the originals, flaws and all, and rework them in a way that would be legality free, yet undeniably the offspring of the original. Some will like, some love, some hate, and some just not care. In truth, this version even I have added many suggestions from other members, but the upper arms were one of the few things that even though fragile, really could not change and stay true, as they are specifically described as a ball joint type linkage, meant to allow the Marauder a broader field of fire. I would also point out that the Clan Timber Wolf has those exact same spindly arm sockets, as do the original Summoner and Hellbringer. Aparently the "fluff" tradeoff was coonsidered worth it. Also specifically noted in canon was the poor visibility on vislight due to the armored hood and dalban hirez equipment, the weak spot where torso and legs met, and the potentially tenuous AC linkage. I change those elements, it is no longer a MAD-3R, no matter how you want to look at it. They can change a lot of those details on the PP version, because it IS a thoroughly reworked model, attempting to rectify the weak points.

The mech was described at various times as crablike (because of the gait and boxy forearms) and insectile, and generally, deceptively lean (one must remember that just the forward thrust canopy adds more weight than one might expect) then figure that the AC is 8 tons, each weapon pod holds 8 tons of weapons, and I have to try to proportion the rest accordingly. One other common adjective used with the Marauder was it's mere presence had an air of alien menace.

Whether the final result pleases folks or not, I would point out that my design stayed true to those key points of the mech, as I generally attempted to do with ALL my Unseen/Reseen re-designs. Quite simply, whatever aesthetic value is placed on the other designs posted, better or worse, they do NOT stay true to the Marauder.

For me, that was more important than anything else factored in.

[Tuvar]

While I'm a big fan of the Marauder I'm pretty certian it had copyright issues at one point with the Robotech series. My understanding is this included the LAM and Warhammer mechs and they lost the rights to use those models. Damn lawyers..... Added a pic so you can see the resemblance.

[Bishop Steiner]

Tuvar, on 24 July 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

While I'm a big fan of the Marauder I'm pretty certian it had copyright issues at one point with the Robotech series. My understanding is this included the LAM and Warhammer mechs and they lost the rights to use those models. Damn lawyers..... Added a pic so you can see the resemblance.

......hence the whole point of redesigning it........

[Rychard Starheart]

Tuvar, on 24 July 2012 - 06:36 PM, said:

While I'm a big fan of the Marauder I'm pretty certian it had copyright issues at one point with the Robotech series. My understanding is this included the LAM and Warhammer mechs and they lost the rights to use those models. Damn lawyers..... Added a pic so you can see the resemblance.

gee, I wonder why people are redesigning it...

[Tuvar]

Then it wouldn't be the marauder would it?

[Bishop Steiner]

Tuvar, on 24 July 2012 - 08:08 PM, said:

Then it wouldn't be the marauder would it?

so, when the Corvette was redesigned... or the Mustang or Camaro... they stopped being Corvettes, Mustangs and Camaros?

[juxstapo]

Since no one has done it yet, I'd like to take this moment to thank Anthony Scroggins (correct my spelling if needs be), aka Shimmering Sword @ deviantart, for a beautiful painting. Regardless of if you like his imagining of a MAD (I love it, it's been my wallpaper for nearly a month), you have to give props to his McQuarrie-esque style (hope that doesn't offend, can't help it, makes me think of Ralph) and masterful technique.

Now back to the original topic, its very important and interesting.

Note: Has anyone realized yet that when the devs release some reseens (and they will), our responses have virtually guaranteed that they will charge for them?

Edited by juxstapo, 24 July 2012 - 08:42 PM.

[Justicier]

Do want. Do so very much want...

[Glaive-]

The only thing that bothers me about Bishop's design is the double barrel dorsal gun.. Do you really need to change the design that much?

Personally I prefer Shimmering Sword's design (picture above this post) the most, but I suppose I could accept Bishop's if it was tweaked a little.

Really though, as long as we get the Marauder..

[Tuvar]

Don't get me wrong I'd love to see it included, but I don't think it's going to happen. There's little reason to risk getting dragged into a legal challange when there are plenty of other mech options. Also we are not talking about redesigning a car, even with varients we are only changing out weapon slots.

[Daetrin Voltari]

As much as I'd like to see the unseen in the game in some form it's exceedingly unlikely.

If you remember, the first trailer for the Mechwarrior reboot back in ’09 (then called Mechwarrior 5) featured a Warhammer. If you look closely, the model in that trailer is made entirely from original parts, but its silhouette was enough to engender a cease and desist order. (http://xbox360.ign.c.../1021437p1.html) That’s likely to be the problem for any of the unseen. If it’s close enough to be recognizable, it’s too close to risk for copyright infringement.

The argument is that a design like the one in the trailer, attempting to represent a design that has already been contested in court for Copyright Infringement, is likely to fail to pass the legal Threshold of Originality, even if it is composed entirely of original components. The obvious and stated intent is to reproduce an object that has already been declared in violation of Copyright. Back in ’96 the courts recognized that Harmony Gold had “acquired co-ownership [with Tatsunoko Production Company, Ltd.] of the copyrights in both the original Macross designs and any derivative works.” (http://alex.kaempen....ld_v._fasa.html)

It’s why the Project Phoenix mechs look so much different than the unseen. Not only can’t they use the Unseen, they can’t use material that is derivative of those designs.

I’m not saying whether Harmony Gold would win or lose such an argument. It doesn’t actually matter. If they brought an injunction the legal fees could quickly become crushing. I really doubt that Piranha Games would consider it worth the risk. Topps has basically already declared it’s not worth it for them. That is why old sculpts and kitbashes aren’t allowed at official events. If it looks like an unseen, leave it at home. Of course there is some hope that this will change now that Palladium Books has received permission to make Robotech miniatures in 1:285 scale, but I’m not holding my breath.

That being said, Shimmering Sword's design is gorgeous.

[Justicier]

You know, if sportbike manufacturers had as much of a burr up their butts as Harmony Gold, there would be a lawsuit over bike designs every freaking year...





"Oh it's got two side-by-side headlights...oh it's got an air scoop in the nose... it's got the same swingarm design as ours...BWAAAAAAH LAWSUIT!!"

Ok, in all honesty, yes, of course the two bikes have different designs for both frame and bodywork... but just looking at them they look VERY similar. Yet no lawsuits occur... but in Mechwarrior/Battletech... oh if it even looks REMOTELY similar to Harmony Gold's designs then they go nuts. It's really quite sad.

[miahbot]

Darn it, I really would like to pilot a marauder. I wish the people that cried about MWO using the unlicensed bits would give it up.

[Bishop Steiner]

most of us have felt that way about harmony gold for a good long time. It really ruins my ability to enjoy Robotech.

[Tristan Kell]

Sorry but the shimmering sword one MIGHT work as a marauder 2, but its just too fat and bulky to be a marauder. Dont get the hate on the double gun on bishops mech, could go with it either way, but dont get how it changes it "that much". Still instantantly recognizable as a marauder, which the first two are not. Shimmering zword one looks like the daisy duke of the dukes of hazzard reunion, while the last one looks like the daisy duke of the origonal show.