111 replies to this topic

[xTrident]

GRiPSViGiL, on 03 August 2016 - 06:28 AM, said:

The war on drugs is definitely not about stopping drugs anymore. It used to be more of a political hot button and has royally failed here. I think ALL drugs should be legal letting Darwin sort out those who choose to use. The money funding DEA and other agencies should be reallocated to something useful like public school systems.

To address the topic it as far as a FPSer goes I can't explain why so many bads play it but it is obvious when comparing it to other FPSers that is the case. I would blame age for reduced reaction times and such but plenty of the best twitch shooters here are advanced in age. If I were to blame anything or find a reason it would be that most people who grew up playing MW based games probably played PvE more than the PvP.

While I didn't play that much multiplayer back through MW4 or Mercenaries the big difference for me from then to now was that I was involved with a unit then. The communication/coordination was through the roof compared to what I get to in QP.

I think a huge problem is that it's 12 v 12. Snowballing is a very big problem. Just the other day I saw a Kodiak walk around a corner on Viridian Bog and was gone in about a second flat from everything that wound up hitting him. I was honestly shocked that he went down THAT quick. With less players per match I would assume the focus fire would drop, people would last longer and that might make for some much more involved battles.

Edited by xTrident, 03 August 2016 - 06:48 AM.

[JC Daxion]

This biggest issue in PUG's is lack of communication.. Often people don't talk, or respond, or even listen to the most basic of commands for minor strats..


For example on alpine yesterday, I was on a team, and everyone balled up at one of the bases of the hill, and the entire other team was just around the corner in another ball. UAV was up over their head the whole time. As 2 other people on the team ran into me trying to climb on top of the hill, which i have no idea how 2 people can run into a stationary mech..

I got kinda annoyed and me and one other ran around the other side of the hill to flank to get decent fire lines and distracted them. Well they took the bait, and turned towards us, all of them! they kept firing at us.. and for well over a min, me and the other guy kept saying PUSH, they have their backs to you.. called locations of who we where talking to, go,, you have free shots.. Nothing.. they never moved.. You can only keep mechs distracted for so long in a medium, and after nearly 2 mins of trying to talk the team into moving around the corner for some free back shots, a couple of fast movers caught us after we had been battered for 2+ mins.. The guys on the top of the hill never pushed over to shoot down, and the assaults and heavies around the corner never moved out.. we died, then they pushed um and game over..

hardly a deep strat, just any kind of group movement it would of been an easy victory.. But who knows if they even had on voice, or read chat.. or what.. I was pretty annoyed but another on the team was down right irritated. I didn't say much at that time, what is the point?

as far as a few people wandering off,, It's a pug,, it happens to both sides every match..


For a game that is all about communication, it is very surprising how few people actually communicate even a word... It's almost a shock when someone calls out a target these days.


But PUG life.... what are you gonna do..


I will say last summer, people were much less likely to play the peak and poke game, and much more likely to move, and brawl.. No clue why this has been such a change

Edited by JC Daxion, 03 August 2016 - 06:49 AM.

[LowSubmarino]

Silra, on 03 August 2016 - 05:52 AM, said:

Insulting the intelligence of fellow players isn't a good way to try and get constructive conversation going.

First thing to realize is that no one is able to read minds (as far as I know anyway), and so what to you might look like a completely silly and weird move to make in a game may be a successful plan for someone else.
Good example of the above is a brawling assault mech, Atlas for example, pushing into the enemy team to lead the charge... for everyone who is afraid of getting into brawling range of the enemies this seems like nothing but pure suicidal sillyness.

Now if we talk about game mechanics themselves which create this kind of behaviour, there's a whole list of things...

You need the Basic Pilot Skills on three of same chassis to unlock Elites. For some chassis there are variants which aren't very good, so some people are quite willing to just suicide the mech and get some exp out of it while actually playing another mech they enjoy playing.

Double exp for first win of the day also creates general issue of people playing a variety of mechs, to try and chase that double exp win... this means that they don't spend as much time consistently playing one mech, to learn that mech inside and out.

C-Bill income is another possibility, especially so if you have Hero mechs available. It can be much faster C-Bills per hour to suicide a mech, especially Hero mech and rinse-repeat through your entire garage of mechs than trying to play each game at your best.
All you have to do is touch as many enemies as possible with a laser beam to get the kill assist C-Bill bonuses for them when someone finishes the mechs off...

Finally we can talk about bots. I don't want to go there though, don't honestly care to.

What you write doesnt make any sense.

That is supposed to be an answer as to why mechs suicide alone in 1s and 2s into the entire enemy team?

After sitting down and thinking about the question this is what you came up with?

Disappointing.....

[MadcatX]

oneda, on 03 August 2016 - 05:27 AM, said:

Id like to understand because if i knew the real motivation behind it I could find good arguments to counter that impulse in the beginning of the game.

SO far what I said (eg: you cant disengage in that mech, dont engage alone, thats suicide) wont stop ppl. Even pointing out that two mechs just died and running single file is suicide usually doesnt convince anybody.

How do you guys react or how to you manage to stop ppl from doing that?

Honestly I don't even try to understand "the bads" and there's no point in finding any sort of motivation since arguing with them is pointless. They'll get good if they choose to, not if someone tells them to.

[Skoll]

Lol OP, most people gave up on this game being anything besides an arena shooter looonnnnng ago. There's no point in actually trying, I'd rather just make stupid builds, get f-ucked up, and do drops with my friends, and talk crap to other people. There is zero depth to this game and pissing off tryhards in QP is more fun than the actual game itself.

[xTrident]

JC Daxion, on 03 August 2016 - 06:48 AM, said:

This biggest issue in PUG's is lack of communication.. Often people don't talk, or respond, or even listen to the most basic of commands for minor strats..

I won't deny communication being important. But it still boggles the hell out of my mind how even the basics many players don't seem to grasp. This game is primarily all about strength in numbers and most of my losses are the opposing team had numbers on us at some point throughout the match. Typically the matches I'm in go something like we have four to six players off trying to do something on their own or they're all split doing their own thing. While this is going on the other six to eight of us are balled up and the enemy team is pretty much all together, pushes us and we die pretty quickly leaving the other four to six players vs at least ten. It's game over.

My point when it comes to the basics is "common sense" to me. I truly feel like there are a lot of players who simply don't even glance at the damn mini map. I look at the mini map nearly as much as I'm looking out my cockpit because knowing where my team and at some point the opposing team is, is extremely important.

But it doesn't take the best players in the world on this game to realize the importance of strength in numbers. And I'm currently in tier 2 now and the way I described my matches typically going combined with my current tier - meaning I shouldn't be playing with new players, only adds to the frustration.

Edited by xTrident, 03 August 2016 - 07:14 AM.

[Coolant]

OP, what you are describing is bad tactical choices, not necessarily bad players. There is a difference. It's quite possible that a good player that has made a bad tactical choice (such as running off by themselves) will still be able to take our a couple of mechs be themselves before dying.

Your title should read something similar to "replaying to why are players making such poor tactical choices".

[Zen Idiot]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

It starts to make sense when you consider how many Americans play this game while they're drinking or smoking weed. For a country engaged in a "war on drugs", they certainly don't like to be sober.

the gov't is engaged in that war, not the country.

[Bud Crue]

"Why Are Players So Bad In MWO?"

Many reasons: some of us are not that bright, nor good at any twitch style video games, including this one. Add to that the folks playing on potatoes. Add to that folks who play this game for the mech lab more than the actual combat. Add to that the folks that actually enjoy variety in their builds and often that variety is terrible for this game but maybe are lore friendly or just fit all the hard points perfectly (or whatever trips your trigger build-wise). Add to that the players who are clearly intoxicated when they play. Etc. Add all those folks up and you have a pretty good chunk of the population of an already low population game.

With the MM clearly broken (due I think to that critically low population), the chances of you good players coming across bads, such as myself, is alas, inevitable and unfortunate for us both.

[WarPickle]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

It starts to make sense when you consider how many Americans play this game while they're drinking or smoking weed. For a country engaged in a "war on drugs", they certainly don't like to be sober.

Hey .. I am an American and I take offense to this.... you forgot that we take a lot of prescription medications also..... sheesh

[SWANN]

durr hurr hurr everyone else is the problem. People disagree with me so they must like CoD (because there is something wrong with that, apparently). I hate this forum.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Also people have alot of different ideas about a "good build". The advice of better players is often dismissed when you can build your own mech. The amount of bad builds out there is exceeding my comprehension!

[Bilbo]

ugrakarma, on 03 August 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Also people have alot of different ideas about a "good build". The advice of better players is often dismissed when you can build your own mech. The amount of bad builds out there is exceeding my comprehension!

You assume they think the build is good. They may just want to try something different every now and then. Let's face it, there is not much variety in the "good build" department.

[Chrithu]

I do it on purpose to annoy people.

[Reza Malin]

meteorol, on 03 August 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

It's the opposite, really. This game is full of 40+ year old neckbearded tabletop grognards who are terrible at playing videogames. That's really it.

I have to say, this comment made me laugh out loud at work.


My take on this is quite simple. Most games play out as follows:

Dropship: 80% of people press ready. Some salutes or GLHF's pop up on chat. Sometimes inane babble from weird mofos.

Drop: The majority of the team starting walking forwards, without any idea where or why, they just do, because W is power. 1 or 2 people won't move because they are off drinking a quick Jagerbomb or something before they can be bothered to play. At this point, no one talks, or one dude will say something that is quite obviously a noob move.

Battle: People start dying. If its blues, it usually becomes a roflstomp. If its red, that guy, yes that guy, will start nerdraging about how bad the team is, and that we all ******* suck and didnt stick to the plan.

Wait what? What ******* plan son?

Aaaaaaaaand everyone waits to check out how much damage/kills they racked up, and then exit the match thinking they are ******* chocolate if they won and scored high unless they are terrible, and if they lost,, 50% of people think either their mech sucks or there build sucks.

What i have noticed, is more people actually speak on the US servers. Often i find on the US servers, if one half decent person calls the match, it makes an exponential difference to the result. Of course, there is always some other douchebags, that don't follow the drop caller, because you know, they are edgy and cool and dont take "orders".

TLDR: Don't drop and assume everyone knows some mysterious plan, then nerd rage when you lose because everyone didn't stick to said mysterious plan. If you want people to follow a plan and have more chance to win, man the **** up and plug your mic in.

Edited by Fade Akira, 03 August 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[Jman5]

The subtle inflationary tendency of PSR combined with the artificial ceiling at Tier 1. We're approaching the 1 year anniversary of PSR becoming public and over a year and a half worth of games counted. I think the problems are just becoming more and more apparent as time goes on.

Essentially PSR is operating under the false assumption that players stop improving once they hit Tier 1. So you have all these guys who were Tier 1 since last September being paired against guys who just recently arrived. Both players were improving, but one had no where else to climb.

Edited by Jman5, 03 August 2016 - 08:12 AM.

[Kubernetes]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

It starts to make sense when you consider how many Americans play this game while they're drinking or smoking weed. For a country engaged in a "war on drugs", they certainly don't like to be sober.

Wtf dude have you been playing the entire time in Training Grounds?

Play with people on TS some time and maybe open your eyes to how many people from every part of the world are playing drunk or stoned. Americans only or primarily? Dude, you have no clue.

Edited by Kubernetes, 03 August 2016 - 08:16 AM.

[Bishop Steiner]

Alistair Winter, on 03 August 2016 - 05:36 AM, said:

It starts to make sense when you consider how many Americans play this game while they're drinking or smoking weed. For a country engaged in a "war on drugs", they certainly don't like to be sober.

LOL!

Dude, the unit I'm assigned to is European. They are every bit as drunk and stoned, if not more, than my old USA unit was. You don't have Straight Edge, Tee-totallers and Bible Thumpers much across the pond anymore.

It's funny you say this, yet quality of play and competition goes up dramatically in USA primetime windows.

You want to talk about obesity, bad music and banal television, I'll totally agree with you. But for drunks and junkies? That's laughable hypocrisy.

Jman5, on 03 August 2016 - 08:05 AM, said:

The subtle inflationary tendency of PSR combined with the artificial ceiling at Tier 1. We're approaching the 1 year anniversary of PSR becoming public and over a year and a half worth of games counted. I think the problems are just becoming more and more apparent as time goes on.

Essentially PSR is operating under the false assumption that players stop improving once they hit Tier 1. So you have all these guys who were Tier 1 since last September being paired against guys who just recently arrived. Both players were improving, but one had no where else to climb.

Tier 1 should unlock a new set of weighted tiers. Or...you know..they could make PSR itself something meaningful, but we know how much PGI loves to admit their ideas don't work, so I don't see that happening.

[EvilCow]

meteorol, on 03 August 2016 - 06:14 AM, said:

It's the opposite, really. This game is full of 40+ year old neckbearded tabletop grognards who are terrible at playing videogames. That's really it.

Splitting queues by age would be a good idea. I think most of us 40+ neckbeards would agree and pay an extra for that.

[ThreeStooges]

I blame throwing vets in with the news and lack of game mode tutorial. Half the team has no clue how to win and the other half just wants to blow up the other team. Throw in piss poor map design that heavily favors one team especially in domination aka dumb *** mode or choke point heaven in fw and it's no surprise people suicide into the enemy team.