277 replies to this topic

[Karl Marlow]

The mad 2c but no mad 2...

Meh. I'll I've to.think long and hard on This one. I bought the Kodiak but rarely play them. I'm IS in FW and in QP I tend to run IS to work with mechs I want to use in FW.

I've got the Cyclops to look forward to. As for clan side. Of I really wanted an 85 tonner I would play my warhawks. My Warhawk B is my favorite mech in MWO clan or is.

Edited by ThomasMarik, 08 August 2016 - 09:11 PM.

[Nightshade24]

tokumboh, on 07 August 2016 - 10:53 PM, said:

Here is my thoughts:
1. I think the lack of Cbills is a bad omen.
2. It seems that the better mechs are reinforcement mechs in the main
3. It seems that there is a overload of non lights in terms of mechs

I believe this slow shaving of rewards is poor from PGI but it must be the way they are going, so yes I am disappointed
Most of the time it make sense to buy the packs but it get harder and harder to justify them these days since before a basic and a hero would have given you a good spread of mechs now you have to buy US$70 a pop which if you did this every month would leave a serious hole in your pocket. So being a early adopter you pay quite a heavy price. compared to waiting

My problem is that it appears that mechs are the money maker not in game purchases and there is little incentive to put effort into improving other facets of the game. I have manged to listen to the FW round table and basically the problem FW has is not enough players, now reducing the bucket/queues helps immensely but we could have IS v Clan as we do on BoT which works well there needs to be a more radical approach which includes not only the queues but the rewards for playing I seem to play less and less these days because of samey game play. There is just a lack of variety in type of battles and objectives

1) And instead you get decals? You know ,things you can't earn otherwise in game normally? Not sure about you but C-bills is easy to get in game. You get about 100k-200k per match, approximately 10 minutes each match, 6 matches an hour, that's 600k-1,200k C-bills per hour of back to back play. Besides, many people out there already have millions of c-bills, having 0.5% more c-bills then they have now is not as interesting as a decal.

2) Not really, they only put the more unique ones there... for eg you can't be telling me the Kodiak 4 and Kodiak 5 were great. Kodiak 4's mostly is an LRM boat, and the Kodiak 5 is unspeakable... Marauder IIC?

IIC-D is hard to 'meta'-up. It can do dual gauss sure, but lower in the arms... and the missile hardpoint isn't anything in the eye of the meta and you have a lower engine cap bellow the optimal for speed, that only leaves ECM and 2 energy hardpoints (1 forced to be 1 slot).
IIC-C 2 ballsitics and 5 energy, sure. I guess you can call that meta... however one of the standards is 3 ballistic 4 energy. Just swap one of your lasers for a heatsink or nother ton of ammo and boom.

they are not the best, just the D being unique and the C being a mirror of the B to be honest.

3) Sure, let's add a new clan light mech!.... oh wait, there is no clan light mechs available in timeline for omnis and the only battlemech lights are not very popular since the jenner IIC is the most known- and most people do not care of light IIC's

We got the rare Commando IIC, the Locust IIC, and the Urbanmech IIC. AFter that we got the Piranha that has 12 mg's which PGI hates any light that has more then 4 machine guns. (quote: they nerfed MG's heavily because they fear 4-6 MG lights running around screwing assaults over. Unless we want MG's to do 0.001 damage per shot then no piranha)
and the howler: a light mech that's max speed will be the speed of mediums despite being a 20 tonner and it's main role is an LRM boat... as a 20 tonner... sure, 3 x SSRM 4 or 3+x SRM 6 boating could be fun but it's still a slow 20 tonner with no energy weapons besides 2 possible variants with only 1E arm stock...

You do not need to spend 70 dollars. you can spend 20 dollars and get 3 stock mechs and extras still. You get your moneys worth and you can get your basics and masters... even then- 15 dollars extra you get a hero, which 35 dollars of MC normally doesn't have enough to pay for a hero alone-ish (approximately 30 dollars for hero alone with MC, 35 dollars to get hero, 3 stocks, and extras with their own mech bays with pack)... also you didn't need to spend 20 dollars to begin with, it'll be released for c-bills later.. just wait for c-bill release if you are not keen on buying it. Boom... also 20 dollars works with early adopter.. 20 dollars a month isn't that bad. However you do not have to buy every pack out there... Just saying.

Well in game can offer only so much... but problem is, premium time doesn't work well if you got 200+ million c-bills and 20m+ GXP. Heroes do not matter if you do not like that variant/ mech... skins?... well not everyone has billions of mechs and want to skin all of them. If you got only 1 main chassis like a few people then there's no point getting more then 1, 2, or 5 skins on the same mech...
New objectives and stuff will be nice, problem is the vocal majority hate having more objectives then skirmish in MW: O. The other problem is like it takes lots of time and refinement... there are objectives involving large dropships like the union and overlord dropships for quickplay and factionplay respectively but it takes time. A lot of time if you do not want it to be another flavour of skirmish (invasion, counter attack, conquest, assault, domination).

My only problem is that I wish there is more unique packs available... like a pack that's exclusively say skins. like 10 dollars for a skin for all SLDF mech to get a "LosTech" based skin for all mechs in those time period (ie marauder, catapult, locust, battlemaster, etc) as well as a few C-bills, MC, prem time 1 week or so, and then like something like some cockpit items from the whole reseen mechs and Star league. as well as a unique war horn and stuff like that.

Something at 5 dollars that's similar like those cage bar things added to clan mechs that can support them for elementals*, Elemental decal, and some c-bills.
*no elementals in game, basically like the unique geo clan wave mechs in a way

Stuff like that so that people do not have to buy expensive mechs to support the game or mechs in general. Some people can only do so many mechs...
Personally if they release certain packs like this I would be quite happy.

[MovinTarget]

Actually for $20 and early adoption you get FOUR MECHS, not 3...

Thats part of where your 6.5 million cbils went. So sell it, keep the mechbay. You'll either at leat break even or be close to 6.5 within a few hours of playing...

[Gaden Phoenix]

Want to ask, is the preorder worth it?

Also which is the best value?
1. The Standard Pack
2. The Collector's Pack
3. Pack + Hero
4. Pack + Reinforcements

I usually only play 3 variants of a mech to level up. And 1~2 variants after. Love Dakka Dakka builds and Laser Vomit. Looking at the pages, not sure which variants are the best.

Can I just get the Standard Pack and Hero?
Or is the Collector's Pack + Hero worth it?
Is the Hero worth it?
Do I need the reinforcement pack?

Regards

[MovinTarget]

Gaden Phoenix, on 09 August 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Want to ask, is the preorder worth it?

Also which is the best value?
1. The Standard Pack
2. The Collector's Pack
3. Pack + Hero
4. Pack + Reinforcements

I usually only play 3 variants of a mech to level up. And 1~2 variants after. Love Dakka Dakka builds and Laser Vomit. Looking at the pages, not sure which variants are the best.

Can I just get the Standard Pack and Hero?
Or is the Collector's Pack + Hero worth it?
Is the Hero worth it?
Do I need the reinforcement pack?

Regards

You can always get the base package ($20 US), qualify for the early adopter swag and then wait to see if others are worth it.

[Fobhopper]

Yeonne Greene, on 08 August 2016 - 10:36 AM, said:

The Marauder never out-performed every other heavy. When it came out, the Black Knight was still the dominating choice for mid-range combat, the Grasshopper for extreme range, and the Timberwolf for short and long ranges. Then the Warhammer released with far and away superior weapon hard-points and quirks, trampling not only the Marauder but also the Black Knight. It is still the better 'Mech.

The Marauder is solid, and that is as good as it has been since day one. There is no specific role it can fill where there isn't a better option.

There are mechs that are better at 'specific' roles compared to the marauder, like the Catapult is better at being a missile boat than the 5D. The Warhammer is a better PPC sniper than the 3R. There are mechs that are better at being in a focused role, but what makes the marauder so good is that it is a good 'all comers' mech that puts it in league with the Timberwolf. The MadCat can literally be anything, missile boat, brawler, sniper, sexmachine, etc. The Marauder is almost on par, and the most balanced IS heavy, especially since more IS mechs are heavily specialized into a specific role (like the black knight laser show, catapult lost cause missile boat, catephract is an AC ***********). Marauder is just a good, balanced mech that anyone can pilot without much issue.

[Dee Eight]

That three of the marauders have jump jets doesn't hurt them either. And the one that doesn't has the most structure bonuses currently.

[Y E O N N E]

Fobhopper, on 09 August 2016 - 08:00 AM, said:

There are mechs that are better at 'specific' roles compared to the marauder, like the Catapult is better at being a missile boat than the 5D. The Warhammer is a better PPC sniper than the 3R. There are mechs that are better at being in a focused role, but what makes the marauder so good is that it is a good 'all comers' mech that puts it in league with the Timberwolf. The MadCat can literally be anything, missile boat, brawler, sniper, sexmachine, etc. The Marauder is almost on par, and the most balanced IS heavy, especially since more IS mechs are heavily specialized into a specific role (like the black knight laser show, catapult lost cause missile boat, catephract is an AC ***********). Marauder is just a good, balanced mech that anyone can pilot without much issue.

The Marauder is not in league with the Timberwolf, though. The Timberwolf is usually the master of all Heavies in any role you build it for with medium range laser poke and ballistics boating being the only exceptions, and even at the former it is not exactly struggling.

Unlike the Timberwolf, the Marauder does not have such a high standing in any role you build it for, which turns its flexibility into a weakness in this game. It is forgiving to play in that it is good at distributing frontal damage with minimal effort, but putting up the numbers takes more effort than in a better specialist. Lack of laser range quirks means you don't get as many opportunities to deal effective damage with them compared to, say, a Jester. Lack of ballistics cool-down means you have to stay engaged longer to get the damage out compared to a Warhammer. Having all of the ballistics in the right side also hamstrings build options compared to most ballistic-wielding Heavies when you want to bring an XL.

For league practice, the only time the Marauder was considered was when we could not bring another JM6-DD or WHM-6R/BW due to the match rules and, to be frank, I never found it to be satisfactory in the role of dakka+PPC power-positioning. It was too slow, had too long of a weapons cycle time, and was easily disarmed.

Don't get me wrong; I love my Marauders and they are my most commonly played Heavy, but they do as well as they do purely due to piloting. They are not and never have been anything approaching overpowered. I think that they are in exactly the place where all Heavies should be, but that place is not the most powerful one in the current game.

[Saber Avalon]

Hunka Junk, on 05 August 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

So the II-D has a 255 STD with a top speed of 48kph.

Is this the first clan mech to get shipped with a total joke engine, IS-stylie?

GreyNovember, on 05 August 2016 - 09:42 AM, said:

So the only real variants worth considering are the special and the hero.

Welp. That's different at least.

MAD-IIC-D

ECM Capable: Yes

and dat head laser

B and C have jump jets too.

Edited by Saber Avalon, 09 August 2016 - 10:53 AM.

[Y E O N N E]

The MAD-5D is my favorite right now, so I'm all about their IIC-B. Same free tonnage to work with on a 400 as the IS version on a 350, with more potent weapons. Oh my yes...

[Ookami55]

Just want to know, is there a game like this but, this is a big but, where they don't make up their own stuff to make up for the fact that it's not meant to be as it's out side the time line that they them self's has set? Just would like know as this game has a very CoD cash grab feel and while it's fun for a little bit things like this just make it seem they just want the money and screw with the lore and their own predetermined foundations. Not saying I hate the game just want to know if there is a game thats like this and the devs don't just make up their own stuff and forget about the lore

[Makenzie71]

Ookami55, on 09 August 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just want to know, is there a game like this but, this is a big but, where they don't make up their own stuff to make up for the fact that it's not meant to be as it's out side the time line that they them self's has set? Just would like know as this game has a very CoD cash grab feel and while it's fun for a little bit things like this just make it seem they just want the money and screw with the lore and their own predetermined foundations. Not saying I hate the game just want to know if there is a game thats like this and the devs don't just make up their own stuff and forget about the lore

Unfortunately, lore-lovers don't pay the bills.

[Gwydion Ward]

Would be nice......

If this wasn't the 3rd mech in a row, where the one and only variant with ECM is hidden behind the 2nd-tier pay-wall of the Reinforcements.

And while yes, i know it'll come out for C-bills at some point... its just starting to make PGI seem to be outright greedy when they start to consistently, over and over again, hide module's they know people would want, behind a 2nd or 3rd tier pay-wall.

[Hemholtz]

Gwydion Ward, on 09 August 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Would be nice......

If this wasn't the 3rd mech in a row, where the one and only variant with ECM is hidden behind the 2nd-tier pay-wall of the Reinforcements.

And while yes, i know it'll come out for C-bills at some point... its just starting to make PGI seem to be outright greedy when they start to consistently, over and over again, hide module's they know people would want, behind a 2nd or 3rd tier pay-wall.

Well, the Phoenix Hawk had the 1b hawk (ECM + torso hardpoint) in the main package...so I guess it's more due to the mech number designation. (1, 1B. 1K, then 2 and 3S)

Buy the basic pack and get MAD IIC, MAD IIC-A and MAD IIC-B...get reinforcement for MAD IIC-C and MAD IIC-D.
If the ECM mech had a earlier number designation, it would probably be in the basic pack.

[Nexano]

Amm... Well... *still walking away* i'm still waiting something really game-changing, not another suppaduppa mech. Game still boring and laser vomit focused. Sorry... pass. No point to buy mech in game current state.

[Nightshade24]

Gaden Phoenix, on 09 August 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

Want to ask, is the preorder worth it?

Also which is the best value?
1. The Standard Pack
2. The Collector's Pack
3. Pack + Hero
4. Pack + Reinforcements

I usually only play 3 variants of a mech to level up. And 1~2 variants after. Love Dakka Dakka builds and Laser Vomit. Looking at the pages, not sure which variants are the best.

Can I just get the Standard Pack and Hero?
Or is the Collector's Pack + Hero worth it?
Is the Hero worth it?
Do I need the reinforcement pack?

Regards

Typically the best value is like this:

standard + Hero + Reinforcements or
Ultimate pack (all of them for 70 dollars)

however neither is on your list...

In feels: the Pack + Reinforcements is the biggest value, you get 5 mechs (+1 for early purchase) and all the goodies that normally come with this pack.
HOWEVER value is different overall... you could also find higher value in the Pack + Hero because the Hero has unique hardpoints and a 30% C-bill boost, which you can't get by playing the game. the Marauder IIC's (all of them but the Hero) can be gotten with C-bills while playing MW: O normally without paying a cent.
The Collectors Marauder iIC is just a normal IIC with a new skin and 30% C-bill bonus so even compared to the hero it isn't as important.
The other thing is that buying this pack is only very slightly more expensive then it is to buy the MC to get the hero by itself when it's out.
The Collectors pack has the worst value but at least you got something exclusive to this pack, no one can get it from the game only MC or C-bills... but it's only a bonus and skin. Also you get a lot more premium time and cockpit items.

On paper, it's somewhere between 3 and 4. but personally I do suggest to get 3 and 4 together if you are hyped for the upcoming mechs in general and INTEND to keep your maruader IIC's (Unlike those people that sell off nearly all but 1 variant of each mech... I cry). You might consider getting the Hero however as an upgrade later on- as when adding it on to the Standard pack it's only 15 dollars. 15 dollars > 6,000 MC / 30 (6,500 MC) dollar pack...

So Reinforcements + Standard may be best and if you want it you can upgrade to a Hero later.

Ookami55, on 09 August 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

Just want to know, is there a game like this but, this is a big but, where they don't make up their own stuff to make up for the fact that it's not meant to be as it's out side the time line that they them self's has set? Just would like know as this game has a very CoD cash grab feel and while it's fun for a little bit things like this just make it seem they just want the money and screw with the lore and their own predetermined foundations. Not saying I hate the game just want to know if there is a game thats like this and the devs don't just make up their own stuff and forget about the lore

You say that while let me introduce you to these guys...

Jagermech JM6-B: not on sarna but officially recognized by Catalyst games/ Master Unit List. This is a jagermech with no ballistics and only missiles. First was in a video game.

Argus
Thanatos
Fafnir
Osiris
Cougar
Chimera
Hellspawn
Uziel
Nova Cat
Mad Cat mk II
Vulture mk II
Arctic Wolf II
Kodiak II
Hellhound
Hauptmann
Templar

That big list above are mechs that are 100% made up by FASA. None of these existed before. Just for MechWarrior 4... However all of them have a bit of lore to go with them...
Cougar is based on the Adder, the Nova Cat is a modernised Night Gyr that's heavier, Vulture II is just an IS produced Mad Dog, Hauptmann used salvaged tech from Direwolfs... etc.

But these are unique designs. Most often not resemblign the predecesor.

Then we have this guy: the Deimos. A MekTek (A mod for MechWarrior 4! Not even an official product by definition!)...

I can keep going on with the list. But the thing is. All these mechs are made up. Mostly in an official title: some sold exclusively to that already paid title... but guess what? They all got canonised (weeell... excluding the Hellhound. That's not canon yet. Just listed it there to point out the fact that all of the made up MW4 mechs, the Hellhound is the only one not canonised yet)

BattleTech has thousands of loop holes, problems, misssing links, etc...
The Sarna and information in the TRO spoke of a missing link between the executioner and kodiak- the mech was designed to be a fast 100 tonner with MASC and Jumpjets, but that design failed and they went two seperate ways... There is somewhere out there a Mech that is a Koditioner... or a Exediak. What ever... Catalyst Games will think of a better name... or simply make it a "Kodiak KDK-1A 'Experimental' " or something like that.
Another example is that some lore sorces scarcely mention some mech variants that are not canon. Such as the Hunchback that only has 9 double heatsinks instead of 10.

Also the fact that the battletech universe is extremely large...

Yen Lo Wang is a centurion that traded off a broken LRM 10 and an out of ammo AC 10 for an AC 20. It later on inspired a gauss version to be in the production lines.

Wolfhound IIC is a mech just to make Phelan (was it?) Kell to feel more at home as he was a Wolfhound pilot before he became a clanner.

This variant of the hunchback with pulse lasers is a prototype that didn't go to well...

Those are some canon mechs that branched off from production and stuff and that can easily happen within what, the Inner spheress 1500-2500 planets? Or the clanners isolated cluster over there? Or those piratess and non-IS factions?

It is likely that hundreds of variants, alt.configs. etc exist out there. I got no problem with PGI making up their own variants and alt.configs IF IT'S LOGICAL.
I do not want to see a Marauder IIC randomly coming up with 3 machine guns in each location and is fitted with 3 LRM 15's in the side torso and an LBX 2 in the CT.

PGI actually tries very hard to make mechs that are so good to be in lore. Look at the Marauder IIC-D... the Engine was chosen for that because in the lore each mech can only have an engine rating based on their weight, for eg a 100 tonner can only use a 100, 200, 300, or 400 engine rating... (easiest one to remember). The Marauder IIC-D followed what engines that should be allowed for a 85 tonner. PGI didn't need to do that...
Most of their made up mechs are logical, some of them are based on the original Marauder, some are based on future variants, one given a twist. etc.

This game isn't a call of duty. "historically accurate based on a true story" Call of Duty would be MechWarrior 4. BattleField would be MechWarrior 2. Verdun or some infantry simulator would be MW: O where sure, there is to many automatic weapons then there should be for a game of that time period (MW: O with having to much lostech ie Endo steel, DHS, pulse lasers, etc). but it's a pretty accurate game for a game.

MW: O can remove those made up variants but in reality that wouldn't add more lore/ realism/ depth to MW: O. It'll just hinder the viarity in all realism...

No many people complained that MW4 made up their own Mechs (let alone variants). Even before they became canon...

If you want a 100% authentic BattleTech Experience. then just stick to books and the table top with compitition rules strictly and no paper cut out of mechs or non official models.


This game wants money as income? it's a multiplayer game. the other MW games wanted money, the other MechCommander games too and MechAssault and BattleTech. This is the only game you do not need to spend any money on to play and do well in. Not only that but it's far more lore friendly then most of the earlier MW games. (how the hell is MW4's Hellhound resemble a Wolverine IIC?/ Wolverine?... why does it have omnipods! it's a battlemech!... and why isn't Ian a Duke? Who are these people!)

Anyway, I said to much things. Last note: The people at BattleTech (game) are working with Catalyst games and one thing that is going to happen is that MW: O's hero mechs (not sure if all) will be canonised- quite potentially PGi's made up variants too... so soon these mechs will be canon maybe... it might take a few months, or a few years... took a long time for the arctic cheetah II and Kodiak II to be canon.

Makenzie71, on 09 August 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

Unfortunately, lore-lovers don't pay the bills.

I thought those were the guys who paid the most?

Gwydion Ward, on 09 August 2016 - 03:49 PM, said:

Would be nice......

If this wasn't the 3rd mech in a row, where the one and only variant with ECM is hidden behind the 2nd-tier pay-wall of the Reinforcements.

And while yes, i know it'll come out for C-bills at some point... its just starting to make PGI seem to be outright greedy when they start to consistently, over and over again, hide module's they know people would want, behind a 2nd or 3rd tier pay-wall.

No modules are hidden behind 2nd/3rdd tier pay walls though?...

And sure, ECM is (on the worst variant) behind a paywall, Meanwhile the better variants are in the default pack as well as the most iconic variant of them all the Marauder IIC...

[Aramuside]

Makenzie71, on 09 August 2016 - 03:35 PM, said:

Unfortunately, lore-lovers don't pay the bills.

Some of us do.

But i don't complain about variants as I accept it can't be exact as its a different format.

[Thorn Hallis]

The possible loadouts are tempting, but the artwork...no, I think I'll pass.

[Aramuside]

Nightshade24, on 09 August 2016 - 09:13 PM, said:

Argus
Thanatos
Fafnir
Osiris
Cougar
Chimera
Hellspawn
Uziel
Nova Cat
Mad Cat mk II
Vulture mk II
Arctic Wolf II
Kodiak II
Hellhound
Hauptmann
Templar

Slightly curious about that list as some of those mechs are definitely in TRO's and Field Manuals, e.g. the Fafnir is in TRO 3067 and from memory Field Manual: Lyran Alliance. Looking at the TRO PDF on my tablet 3067 has the Argus, Thanatos, Fafnir, Chimera, Hellspawn, Uziel and Mad Cat MK II. We use Fanpro and FASA stuff in our tournaments so not sure I've ever seen a distinction between those two publishers as to allowed mechs, its usually by era.

Edit: The most usual ban is actually clan or advanced tech!

Edited by Aramuside, 10 August 2016 - 01:20 AM.

[MovinTarget]

Nexano, on 09 August 2016 - 08:25 PM, said:

Amm... Well... *still walking away* i'm still waiting something really game-changing, not another suppaduppa mech. Game still boring and laser vomit focused. Sorry... pass. No point to buy mech in game current state.

For better or worse, PGI is shy about introducing too much "game changing" stuff because it invariably generates the accusations of P2W and a general crapstorm ensues. Granted, its a weak excuse to not progress in leaps and bounds but it was painful when the clans first came out and there were no quirks to balance things out. The grief was real.