22 replies to this topic

[Sarganis]

Hi. Just returned after 2 years and I have lots of questions =)

After some days of trying different things I seem to like flanking/backstabing and do unanswered damage or just plain fire support bigger guys.

The range of engagement is not important. (I enjoyed both AC20 and ERLL on different mechs I tried)

Currently I'm doing best with this SHD-2K variant:
SHD-2K

High-mounted PPCs are to do direct damage with minimal exposure.
LRMs are to pepper things when I cannot/do not want to engage directly adn supplement PPCs as much as heat allows.
Jump Jets are to to access interesting positions.

Apart from general advice on SHDs/IS mediums on todays MWO, I have the following questions:
1) What's the standard for torso armor distribution between front and back? I know there's of playstyle/preference here, but some general starting point would help.
2) Same for amount of Jump Jets.
3) What about other SHD c-bills variants? I own SHD-2D and need third one to master the chassis.
4) Where to go next? I lean toward Hunchback because it can highmount big ACs and has nice variance and then Centurion for some arms-aiming experience.

[Roughneck45]

1) 10-15-10 is a good place to start. Everyone runs it differently. Really no secret to it, if you are confident in your situational awareness front load it even further. I usually run rear armor that will give my front armor even numbers cause I'm OCD like that haha.

2) Three is good. You want at least two, four or more is usually excessive but can be a lot of fun.

3) Master the 2D because you have it. I always liked the 2D2 because of its options. Can go sniper, ballistic brawler, or SRM brawler and do them all quite well.

4) Hunchbacks are a blast if you want to stay with mediums. Centurions are harder but can be a rewarding experience. Hunchbacks overall are stronger than cent's IMO.

[martian]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

4) Where to go next? I lean toward Hunchback because it can highmount big ACs and has nice variance and then Centurion for some arms-aiming experience.

Stormcrow (Ryoken) is probably the best medium 'Mech in the game.

[mogs01gt]

Your 2k build functionally is flawed. You have no damage at close ranges...Lights will eat u alive.

Im not 100% sure but I think this is what everyone uses for the 2k
SHD-2K

I'd personally run this.
SHD-2K

Edited by mogs01gt, 08 August 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[Roughneck45]

martian, on 08 August 2016 - 05:49 AM, said:

Stormcrow (Ryoken) is probably the best medium 'Mech in the game.

True, but it sounds like he wants to stay with IS mechs.

Edited by Roughneck45, 08 August 2016 - 07:51 AM.

[martian]

Roughneck45, on 08 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

True, but it sounds like he wants to stay with IS mechs.

Well, that's possible.

But the Ryoken is an excellent OmniMech and ultimately it is cheaper than comparable IS Medium such as that Shadow Hawk (since it comes with Clan Endo steel, Clan Ferro-fibrous armor, Clan Extralight engine and Clan weapons). Plus, the Ryoken - as all OmniMechs - is more versatile than the Shadow Hawk.

[mogs01gt]

martian, on 08 August 2016 - 07:59 AM, said:

Well, that's possible.
But the Ryoken is an excellent OmniMech and ultimately it is cheaper than comparable IS Medium such as that Shadow Hawk (since it comes with Clan Endo steel, Clan Ferro-fibrous armor, Clan Extralight engine and Clan weapons). Plus, the Ryoken - as all OmniMechs - is more versatile than the Shadow Hawk.

Its only cheaper on a 1v1 comparison. If you want to elite the Crow, you will spend significantly more Cbills.

[Sarganis]

mogs01gt, on 08 August 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

Your 2k build functionally is flawed. You have no damage at close ranges...Lights will eat u alive.

My 2K is not intended to fight lights or brawl in melee range
Although screwing ECM scares them when my whole team can LRM them (I even think about TAG in third E slot).
Also, battlefield positioning and awareness of where your team is should mitigate this weakness.

Do you mean that it is one of Medium's main roles to kick off pesky little ******** and I will harm my team by not doing so?

I am right now not looking for ultra-competitive fights if that helps to answer my question.

Roughneck45, on 08 August 2016 - 07:49 AM, said:

True, but it sounds like he wants to stay with IS mechs.

Yep, I will stick to IS for lore and aesthetics. At least untill Clan Sea Fox... Or untill I got completely bored, but then I'll just switch to other game .

[mogs01gt]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

My 2K is not intended to fight lights or brawl in melee range
Although screwing ECM scares them when my whole team can LRM them (I even think about TAG in third E slot).
Also, battlefield positioning and awareness of where your team is should mitigate this weakness.
Do you mean that it is one of Medium's main roles to kick off pesky little ******** and I will harm my team by not doing so?
I am right now not looking for ultra-competitive fights if that helps to answer my question.

I was trying to be nice, your build sucks. Any person will see that build and attempt to get close to you knowing the closer they get, the less damage you do. Then once you're in brawling range, they will ignore you since you'll do no damage.

remember PPCs and LRMs have a minimum range.
PPC range: 90-1080
LRM:180-1000
Also, LRM5 are typically used in 4+ sets. 3 is a bit useless.

Edited by mogs01gt, 08 August 2016 - 10:58 AM.

[martian]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 10:47 AM, said:

Yep, I will stick to IS for lore and aesthetics. At least untill Clan Sea Fox...

Are you a Clan Sea Fox fan?

[jss78]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

Apart from general advice on SHDs/IS mediums on todays MWO, I have the following questions:
1) What's the standard for torso armor distribution between front and back? I know there's of playstyle/preference here, but some general starting point would help.
2) Same for amount of Jump Jets.
3) What about other SHD c-bills variants? I own SHD-2D and need third one to master the chassis.
4) Where to go next? I lean toward Hunchback because it can highmount big ACs and has nice variance and then Centurion for some arms-aiming experience.

1) There's no real standard, though the tendency is to run only a few points in back. Personally I put 8 but I'm recently thinking this is too much. Most of the time you die from damage coming from the front, so it's debatable whether it's worth it to prepare for that occasional case where a light catches you off guard. On second-line fire-support 'mechs like Jagers I tend to go with virtually no back armour. On lights which may get closer to enemy and take fire from different directions, a bit more.

2) My go-to with Shadow Hawks is 2 JJ. However the 2K can run 5 JJ's and medium 'mechs get a pretty good performance return for mounting more JJ, so 2.5 t for 5 JJ is not a bad investment as such.

3) The other Shadow Hawks are ultimately very, very similar, so it's really down to preference. 2H and 5M can mount multiple ballistics, so go there if that's what you want to do. 2D and 2D2 are very similar, the former getting one more E hardpoint and one less M hardpoint. My personal favourite apart from 2K is actually the Gray Death, because it gets good AC/10 quirks (my favourite ballistic on a Shadow Hawk), can mount 4xML, and gets the best structure quirks.

4) Both are quite popular, I don't think you'd go wrong with either. AC/20 Centurions seem to be back in vogue in Scouting games. The AC/20 Hunchie is a classic and glorious 'mech, though I guess not exactly meta.

mogs01gt, on 08 August 2016 - 06:30 AM, said:

Your 2k build functionally is flawed. You have no damage at close ranges...Lights will eat u alive.

Im not 100% sure but I think this is what everyone uses for the 2k
SHD-2K

I'd personally run this.
SHD-2K

I think most people run either 3xERLL or 3xLPL in the 2K. It's also very much OK with 3xASRM6 + 3xML. There are better-quirked 'mechs for that, or Griffins with ECM, but the SHD-2K geometry is really good as everything is in high mounts.

My personal favourite is quite similar to yours. I downgrade the SRM4's to SRM2's, and give it a bit stronger mid-range laser poke with 2xLPL+ML. I love a nicely mobile mid-range focused 'mech for pug games. Rarely lets you down.

Edited by jss78, 08 August 2016 - 11:30 AM.

[Sarganis]

mogs01gt, on 08 August 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

I was trying to be nice, your build sucks. Any person will see that build and attempt to get close to you knowing the closer they get, the less damage you do. Then once you're in brawling range, they will ignore you since you'll do no damage.

I will be happy if someone will be baited only to open a flank/back to my team or run straight into it in (depending on where I am). So I am fine with letting some games down for being in wrong place at wrong time.

mogs01gt, on 08 August 2016 - 10:57 AM, said:

Also, LRM5 are typically used in 4+ sets. 3 is a bit useless.

Why is that? I carry 3 tons of LRM ammo and in most games most (if not all) find target unless I die due to stoopid positioning early in the match.

martian, on 08 August 2016 - 11:21 AM, said:

Are you a Clan Sea Fox fan?

I cannot call myself a FAN of battletech in general, but yeah, (space) nomads have a soft spot in my heart.
So we are talking about post-3100, but earlier they are also my preferrable clan due to less warfare-centric attitude.
Also, renaiming to Diamond Sharks is one single best troll attempt counter in clan space.

jss78, on 08 August 2016 - 11:29 AM, said:

...
I think most people run either 3xERLL or 3xLPL in the 2K. It's also very much OK with 3xASRM6 + 3xML. There are better-quirked 'mechs for that, or Griffins with ECM, but the SHD-2K geometry is really good as everything is in high mounts.

Thanks for detailed answer.
I generally do not enjoy to hold the cross on my target in long-range engagements. Feel so much better to calculate trajectory, press the trigger and watch the hit. So PPCs are my long-range energy weapon of choice.

Edited by eq firemind, 08 August 2016 - 11:48 AM.

[mogs01gt]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

I will be happy if someone will be baited only to open a flank/back to my team or run straight into it in (depending on where I am). So I am fine with letting some games down for being in wrong place at wrong time.

As the higher you go in tier, you find that builds like your original are less and less effective

Quote

Why is that? I carry 3 tons of LRM ammo and in most games most (if not all) find target unless I die due to stoopid positioning early in the match.

Has nothing to do with ammo, its an issue of DPS. 3xlrm5s have poor dps, it would be better to use SRMs. Typically LRM5 builds are 4x, 5x or use 6xlrm hardpoints.

[Roughneck45]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 11:41 AM, said:

I generally do not enjoy to hold the cross on my target in long-range engagements. Feel so much better to calculate trajectory, press the trigger and watch the hit. So PPCs are my long-range energy weapon of choice.

With this in mind you basically have 3ish weapons to work with and have to choose what combination you'd like. ER/PPC's, AC/UAC5's, and Gauss.

[Leone]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

1) What's the standard for torso armor distribution between front and back? I know there's of playstyle/preference here, but some general starting point would help.

For me five armour on the rear sides, an Seven on rear CT. Should be just enough to protect you from over zealous teammates who accidentally sweep your rear with friendly fire. Which is hopefully the only fire you take from the back.

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

2) Same for amount of Jump Jets.

One. One jump jet is great for jet powered ascents up hillsides. And seriously, you need all the jump jets to actually jump, and that's throwing too much tonnage into it when one usually does the trick.

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

3) What about other SHD c-bills variants? I own SHD-2D and need third one to master the chassis.

Personally I'm a fan of the 2H and mebbe the 5M. Those both allow for the standard engine, dual uac 5 build I love.

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

4) Where to go next? I lean toward Hunchback because it can highmount big ACs and has nice variance and then Centurion for some arms-aiming experience.

Hunchback is always a great choice, but have you considered branching out into assaults and lights? Your 2K build is very positioning centric, and so you may be a natural Assault pilot, since positioning is key for those. (Personally I love the Banshee, Battlemaster, Atlas, Zues and Highlander, in that order. I respect the mauler, but haven't gotten it yet, so can't say for certain.)

~Leone

[Void Angel]

eq firemind, on 08 August 2016 - 03:49 AM, said:

Hi. Just returned after 2 years and I have lots of questions =)

After some days of trying different things I seem to like flanking/backstabing and do unanswered damage or just plain fire support bigger guys.

The range of engagement is not important. (I enjoyed both AC20 and ERLL on different mechs I tried)

Currently I'm doing best with this SHD-2K variant:
SHD-2K

High-mounted PPCs are to do direct damage with minimal exposure.
LRMs are to pepper things when I cannot/do not want to engage directly adn supplement PPCs as much as heat allows.
Jump Jets are to to access interesting positions.

Apart from general advice on SHDs/IS mediums on todays MWO, I have the following questions:
1) What's the standard for torso armor distribution between front and back? I know there's of playstyle/preference here, but some general starting point would help.
2) Same for amount of Jump Jets.
3) What about other SHD c-bills variants? I own SHD-2D and need third one to master the chassis.
4) Where to go next? I lean toward Hunchback because it can highmount big ACs and has nice variance and then Centurion for some arms-aiming experience.

Well, first:

It's dangerous to go alone. Here, take this! It does ok. Use the AC/10 to hammer at people from just behind your front rank of Heavies and Assaults, then use the SRMs and Medium Laser to finish people off and/or defend yourself at close range.

As for your build, well. As others have told you, you're going to be a priority target for Lights and fast Mediums - they won't care if their ECM is disrupted while they leg you to death while hiding behind you so your teams LRMs hit you. But that's not the main problem - it's overall damage, range, and stare time. You're going to be spending a lot of time looking in the same direction to keep those LRMs on target, while poking with the decidedly middle-range standard PPC. Combined with your XL Engine, that makes you fairly vulnerable to a competent countersniper. You've paid attention to that variant's quirks, which is good, but I'd actually either go with PPCs alone - LRMs and PPCs aren't very compatible. Keep the PPCs and swap in SRM4s for the LRMs for close-range mayhem.

Now, for the numbered questions:
1) Start with 5/7/5, and iterate. By "iterate," I mean to pay attention to how much you get killed from the back as opposed to the front over the course of several games, and then adjusting armor if needed to compensate. This should be something you're always doing - it goes for ammo, heat, just about any adjustable factor of your builds.

2) Just enough to get you where you want to go. More Jump Jets can be more valuable than many people think; mobility is important - but this again depends on your play style. If you're not going mountain climbing on a regular basis - or you need the ammo/armor/heat sinks, you can go as far as to just keep one jump jet for assisted turning and fall control.

3) I already recommended it, but I'll say it again: the 2H is a superb variant for this chassis. And you are of course right to master the chassis; you really need the pilot skill tree to get the most out of any 'mech.

4) Well, it depends on what you want to do on a couple of levels. Do you want to stay Inner Sphere, and do you want to stay in the Medium class.

• If you want to stay Inner Sphere (your interest, or lack thereof, in Faction Play should be taken into account here) but don't feel the need to stay in one weight class, I'd recommend the Raven or Spider as your next chassis. The Spider isn't very heavily armed, but all variants have jump jets - while the Raven has a pretty good payload at the expense of bounce in most variants. Each chassis has an ECM variant, which is important.
  
• If you want to stay Inner Sphere and Medium, the Hunchback is an excellent choice, as is the Blackjack.
  
• If you don't care about faction, but want to stay Medium, go try the Stormcrow. It's a great, versatile 'mech, and a great jumping-off point to learn how Omnimechs and Clantech differ from the Inner Sphere.
  
• Finally, if you don't care about faction or weight class, I'd recommend that you go with the Arctic Cheetah as your next chassis - it's basically the ******* offspring of the Firestarter and the Spider, but with Clantech. A powerful and versatile combat Light.
  
• As an alternative to Lights, I'd have you go with the Thunderbolt or Timber Wolf, for Inner Sphere and Clans respectively. Superb heavies that can support a wide variety of builds and roles.

[Belial Moloch]

I personally love the Shadowhawk, it is my preffered medium mech. On the one with the 3 ballistics I use 3 ac2, look for moltn metal on YouTube, got the build from there. On the 2k I Play either 1 erppc and 3x srm4 or 3x srm6 and 3 medium lasers. last one is a Missile boat that does not work, still have to figure out a good 2D2 build. What also works is a gauss sniper build

[bar10jim]

Check out https://www.mechspecs.com/ for more ideas.

I like to run something similar to this on the 2H. Great support mech, plus it's got a lotta dakka dakka. I use button 1 for alpha, button 2 for chain-fire the AC5s, button 3 for the AC2. Holding down buttons 2 and 3 will send a lot of lead downrange in a hurry. Just keep on the rear flank of a frontline heavy or assault and shoot what they shoot at.

That being said, I also love my Hunchies. While most people run the 4G for a ballistic mech, I prefer the 4H in this configuration. A bit more flexible and easier to manage heat.

[Sarganis]

As per advices in this thread, I run the following:
SHD-2K
SHD-2H

And also this just for AC20 + JJ
SHD-2D
But I do much better with CN9-AH in AC20 department

Many thanks for replies, realy helped.

Edited by eq firemind, 12 August 2016 - 10:20 AM.

[DeamoBD]

On the 2k my favs are

Wubhawk- 3 lpl
PPC hawk- 2 erppcs (semi poptart) with 4-5 jjs