289 replies to this topic

[Appogee]

Alistair Winter, on 09 August 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

Now there's like 3-4 white knights left. One of them started a thread about how to make Tina & Russ be more active on the forum and his thread got locked by a PGI staff member.

Look on the bright side. At least it showed that a PGI staffmember actually read a thread.

(Kudos Mike Frost incidentally.)

[Alistair Winter]

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

You forgot to mention WHY it was locked... because people couldn't even be remotely on topic, even if little.

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been locked. I'm just saying that it's ironic that Blood Wolf tried to do something to positive as the thread got locked, while the other threads with bittervets criticizing PGI are going strong. Without pointing fingers, that fact alone is ironic.

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

You know, I'm going to tell you the problem right now with the community; We want more than what PGI can give us. We want them to come out with ALL of the things that may sound good, but may not.

I agree. I'm not sure I covered this in the OP, but MWO's problems can absolutely be divided into some things that can't be fixed and some things that can be fixed. One of the problems that can't be fixed is that people had higher expectations for this game. Hell, I think even Russ & Bryan had higher expectations for this game, and then realized it would be harder than they initially thought.

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Of course, PGI could come on some threads and post, I mean, at least twice or thrice a week post something that is informational or just to talk.That's the part I think people want, aside from all their ideas wanting to be implemented.
I think the best thing PGI could do for this community is post as above stated, a few times a week. and it doesn't have to be informational all the time either.

Agreed.

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Short summary?
-All these "great" ideas may not be so great, maybe good but not great.
- PGI can relieve stress and low spirited forumwarriors by communicating a bit more like Tina has recently, and they don't have to post 24/7 either.
-Yelling or spitting mentally or in words at a company that makes the game you play and expect results? no sense at all.
-The less you come here to complain and the more you play the game for fun the less you'll care about coming to the forums to gripe.
-Not having fun as said above? take a break. Oh yeah. there's a new BattleTech game coming too, go check it out when it arrives.
And a last one that you don't have to like if your don't want to:
-stop caring about the game's many many problems and just play what makes your day in it.

I agree with most of this. Although I obviously don't follow the philosophy of "If you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything", because I think it's alright to start things that are purely negative (e.g. "Class I jump jets have been terrible too long") in addition to things that are purely positive. A game is both a piece of art and a... game, with rules and things. It's ok to critique it.

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Meanwhile I'll go enjoy another game that has a reputation for being as many think a bad community but actually has some really nice and awesome people there that would play the game than rather go to their forums and complain.

That description actually works for MWO, I think. But some people feel like this community is just toxic and terrible. <shrug>

[Yosharian]

FupDup, on 08 August 2016 - 01:06 PM, said:

Are you saying that the MWO forums have more Information Warfare than the game itself?

https://s10.postimg....ay1fgq1/d96.jpg

[Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel]

G'day,


I can't see the developers actively looking through the forums till sometime after May 2017. Why? Well that's basically when Hairbrain's Battletech comes out and a large portion of PGI's remaining clients start to exit. When that happens, it'll be the stage where the proverbial hits the fan and it may well give them an urgent reason to start paying closer attention to their customer base.

However, to be brutally honest, I just don't think that PGI really knows how to build a comprehensive Mech game beyond the universally used "COD / WOT or whatever it is online mode". Is just a copy of what most other FPS shooters use. Is essentially, a sure fire addictive, but bland formula for making money and little else. There's no real incentive to take on advice or idea's from posters on their forum. Just pay the occasional "lip service" to Battletech lore in creative writing to advertise advents to keep the fans happy. It's been working for the past few years and that's about it.

However this may change. Whilst Hairbrain's product will not be a FPS and is technically not a direct competitor, it will draw Battletech fans (or customers) away if it follows the rich lore to any significant degree. From early indications, I suspect this may be the case and it could be the folk at PGI checking the Hairbrain forums for guidance. At any rate my money for Mech Pack's stopped with that "half baked, botched abortion called community warfare". A nice galaxy map and little else. No campaign or substance. Just a glorified seal hunt for a few and time wasting nothing to the many. Yeah, I'll be backing the Hairbrain mob on this.


Regards,
Vibes

Edited by Cptn Goodvibes Pig of Steel, 10 August 2016 - 03:00 AM.

[Scout Derek]

Alistair Winter said:

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been locked. I'm just saying that it's ironic that Blood Wolf tried to do something to positive as the thread got locked, while the other threads with bittervets criticizing PGI are going strong. Without pointing fingers, that fact alone is ironic.

Very true, I didn't look at the picture as a whole on that part. The negative keeps flowing while the positives get cut out...

Alistair Winter, on 10 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

I agree. I'm not sure I covered this in the OP, but MWO's problems can absolutely be divided into some things that can't be fixed and some things that can be fixed. One of the problems that can't be fixed is that people had higher expectations for this game. Hell, I think even Russ &amp; Bryan had higher expectations for this game, and then realized it would be harder than they initially thought.

All true, but the one part about Russ and Bryan not addressing us in some form (If I missed it at some point it out) that they may or may not get some things done like they said because it is a lot of work. again, which leads to your OP of lack of communication.

Alistair Winter, on 10 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

I agree with most of this. Although I obviously don't follow the philosophy of &quot;If you have nothing good to say, then don't say anything&quot;, because I think it's alright to start things that are purely negative (e.g. &quot;Class I jump jets have been terrible too long&quot;) in addition to things that are purely positive. A game is both a piece of art and a... game, with rules and things. It's ok to critique it.

The philosophy is directed moreover towards smaller or absurd things, one of the most absurd was the "it's PGI's fault that I'm disconnecting from them". Seriously, all games have this problem. this is nothing new, and it might or at all not even be their fault in the first place.

Alistair Winter, on 10 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

That description actually works for MWO, I think. But some people feel like this community is just toxic and terrible. &lt;shrug&gt;

The only toxic and terrible part I feel about this community is the part about community expecting them to do what they can't, which is something I'm beginning to clarify more after all these years. There's a few more things to ponder too about the community and the developers of this game as a whole.

[Deathlike]

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

The only toxic and terrible part I feel about this community is the part about community expecting them to do what they can't, which is something I'm beginning to clarify more after all these years. There's a few more things to ponder too about the community and the developers of this game as a whole.

I think the reality is that what they can do is very little, and what they can't do is... insurmountable. Even for the things that they "should" be able to do will take time (and slow for that matter), sometimes they find a way to botch that just as well. Somehow, giving them the benefit of the doubt is more like giving them the benefit that they'll still screw it up.

It sounds twisted and unfair, but while I believe this to be the case... PGI at that point stops disappointing... because the failure is real and noone forced them to screw it up.

It doesn't mean that they can't change, but outside of the Academy (which is still lacking in ECM/LRM information), there isn't much to expect that is dramatic other than say Ghost Heat v2, where something inevitable will go horribly wrong with it.

[Alistair Winter]

Deathlike, on 10 August 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

It doesn't mean that they can't change, but outside of the Academy (which is still lacking in ECM/LRM information), there isn't much to expect that is dramatic other than say Ghost Heat v2, where something inevitable will go horribly wrong with it.

I'm not sure if you were talking about a certain group of features specifically, but I think that Solaris should be a potentially big and "dramatic" feature that is pretty hard to screw up. It's just free-for-all deathmatches and 8v8 teams (no group queue, just 8v8) on arena maps. Solaris is not a big deal to the immersion / hardcore Battletech crowd, but it will be a big deal to a lot of players, I think. Because MWO is already an arena shooter in so many ways, but not in all the important ones.

Infotech... I expect them to get that right eventually. It'll take a long time, just as it took them a long time to get quirks in a decent place. But they already had a good start in August 2015.

Role warfare... I expect this to be very minor stuff, not game changing at all.

PVE campaign... right now, the only PVE thing they've got, from how Russ explains it, is that they have a dude on a computer working on AI. So that's so far down the line, there's no point in even speculating. Especially since the AI in the Academy is so primitive.

[Deathlike]

Alistair Winter, on 10 August 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

I'm not sure if you were talking about a certain group of features specifically, but I think that Solaris should be a potentially big and "dramatic" feature that is pretty hard to screw up. It's just free-for-all deathmatches and 8v8 teams (no group queue, just 8v8) on arena maps. Solaris is not a big deal to the immersion / hardcore Battletech crowd, but it will be a big deal to a lot of players, I think. Because MWO is already an arena shooter in so many ways, but not in all the important ones.

That sounds like a challenge. You may want to reconsider your position.

[TLBFestus]

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

The only toxic and terrible part I feel about this community is the part about community expecting them to do what they can't, which is something I'm beginning to clarify more after all these years. There's a few more things to ponder too about the community and the developers of this game as a whole.

There is a grain of truth to this statement, but I might not be the only one that views things differently.

I think the bigger part of the problem is that there were things PGI promised (or at the least strongly hinted) that they WERE going to do that they in fact knew they were NEVER going to do, and we as early founders/community lapped it all up in a big ol' "Kume By Yah" fest.

Later, when they finally admitted they couldn't do it, or weren't working on it or claimed they never guaranteed they'd do it, people became disillusioned very quickly and very deeply.

At that point PGI had dug itself a very deep hole to get out of and never really bothered to try rebuild trust. Followed up by a seemingly never ending tale of goof ups, poor implementation and an ability to stuff feet in mouthedness, they have what they have today.

Edited by TLBFestus, 10 August 2016 - 02:40 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Alistair Winter, on 09 August 2016 - 11:43 PM, said:

One of them started a thread about how to make Tina & Russ be more active on the forum and his thread got locked by a PGI staff member.

To be fair and give people context and it was my thread. Kudos to the people that actually contributed something constructive. I wont shoot anyone down for that.

Also when it was shut down i was gone for the day, but apparently he did so becuase the thread was more on the nonconstructive side. So be sure when you make a statement that you give some context

I Also dont know why you only believe that there are only 3-4 white knights. To be honest thats such a simplistic view that i dont even have any words that would help you to understand that not only does everyone not shair your point of view. It also says you have a Bias against anyone who makes statements that you can seem to tolerate.

Any person here should just look at the facts as a whole and as objectively as they can theen come to their conclusion,

I wont try to know anyone down for that. Nor will i be derogatory or insulting in any matter.

To me sitting down and having a conversation is the only way to begin to solve a problem.


Thanks

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 10 August 2016 - 03:14 PM.

[Bishop Steiner]

BLOOD WOLF, on 10 August 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

To be fair and give people context and it was my thread. Kudos to the people that actually contributed something constructive. I wont shoot anyone down for that.

Also when it was shut down i was gone for the day, but apparently he did so becuase the thread was more on the nonconstructive side. So be sure when you make a statement that you give some context

Thanks

For further context....over half the responses on the thread were by people who I put on Ignore for constant bickering and nonproductive postings..... so...... In fact the entirety of the second page was literally "ignored".... a forum first for me.

[dervishx5]

Notice me stein-pai

Edited by dervishx5, 10 August 2016 - 03:17 PM.

[Mystere]

Alistair Winter, on 10 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

Hell, I think even Russ & Bryan had higher expectations for this game, and then realized it would be harder than they initially thought.

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:54 AM, said:

The only toxic and terrible part I feel about this community is the part about community expecting them to do what they can't, which is something I'm beginning to clarify more after all these years. There's a few more things to ponder too about the community and the developers of this game as a whole.

Deathlike, on 10 August 2016 - 03:48 AM, said:

I think the reality is that what they can do is very little, and what they can't do is... insurmountable. Even for the things that they "should" be able to do will take time (and slow for that matter), sometimes they find a way to botch that just as well. Somehow, giving them the benefit of the doubt is more like giving them the benefit that they'll still screw it up.

Then in Hades' name they should just go out and say it!

But of course they will do no such things. It will be financial suicide for them.

Or I should probably say, it will be even bigger financial suicide than what they are doing now.

Edited by Mystere, 10 August 2016 - 03:48 PM.

[Mystere]

Scout Derek, on 10 August 2016 - 02:19 AM, said:

Meanwhile I'll go enjoy another game that has a reputation for being as many think a bad community but actually has some really nice and awesome people there that would play the game than rather go to their forums and complain.

Please do share. I'm currently looking.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Alistair Winter, on 10 August 2016 - 02:38 AM, said:

I'm not saying it shouldn't have been locked. I'm just saying that it's ironic that Blood Wolf tried to do something to positive as the thread got locked, while the other threads with bittervets criticizing PGI are going strong. Without pointing fingers, that fact alone is ironic.



That description actually works for MWO, I think. But some people feel like this community is just toxic and terrible. <shrug>

To be clear I wasn't trying to do something positive in the sense that I need flowers and rainbows. To me at least i only care that a conversation can happen and at the same time be conducted by individuals making points and with out feeling hurt that someone either criticized their post or disagreed with them.

Also if you want to look at the forums as a whole the so called "bitteverts" are a small sum. Most topics flow pretty normally.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 10 August 2016 - 03:51 PM.

[Mystere]

Alistair Winter, on 10 August 2016 - 12:45 PM, said:

... Solaris should be a potentially big and "dramatic" feature that is pretty hard to screw up.

[Alistair Winter]

BLOOD WOLF, on 10 August 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

To be fair and give people context and it was my thread. Kudos to the people that actually contributed something constructive. I wont shoot anyone down for that. Also when it was shut down i was gone for the day, but apparently he did so becuase the thread was more on the nonconstructive side. So be sure when you make a statement that you give some context

I don't feel the context is important at all. And you just provided it anyway. So we're good.

BLOOD WOLF, on 10 August 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

I Also dont know why you only believe that there are only 3-4 white knights. To be honest thats such a simplistic view that i dont even have any words that would help you to understand that not only does everyone not shair your point of view.

You have a tendency of taking some things very literally. Speaking of simplistic views.

BLOOD WOLF, on 10 August 2016 - 03:03 PM, said:

I wont try to know anyone down for that. Nor will i be derogatory or insulting in any matter.

Your post was derogatory. Not that I really mind. I think we understand each other very well, so if you call my view "simplistic" it doesn't really bother me. Being on the internet requires thick skin. But just for the record.

Bishop Steiner, on 10 August 2016 - 03:11 PM, said:

For further context....over half the responses on the thread were by people who I put on Ignore for constant bickering and nonproductive postings..... so...... In fact the entirety of the second page was literally "ignored".... a forum first for me.

That is rather funny, actually. I haven't quite got to that point yet, though my list does keep growing longer.

[Kyrie]

Community Warfare lives on thanks to the forums. ;-) You may have thought CW was replaced by "FP", but everyone knows the real CW has always been the forums. ;-)

[Scout Derek]

TLBFestus, on 10 August 2016 - 02:38 PM, said:

There is a grain of truth to this statement, but I might not be the only one that views things differently.

I think the bigger part of the problem is that there were things PGI promised (or at the least strongly hinted) that they WERE going to do that they in fact knew they were NEVER going to do, and we as early founders/community lapped it all up in a big ol' &quot;Kume By Yah&quot; fest.

Later, when they finally admitted they couldn't do it, or weren't working on it or claimed they never guaranteed they'd do it, people became disillusioned very quickly and very deeply.

At that point PGI had dug itself a very deep hole to get out of and never really bothered to try rebuild trust. Followed up by a seemingly never ending tale of goof ups, poor implementation and an ability to stuff feet in mouthedness, they have what they have today.

If PGI had more experience or had thought of it before all of this had happened, they wouldn't have said that they were going to be bringing work on a bar that they couldn't do. *shrugs*


By now I'm just looking at everything still and more is to come.

Mystere, on 10 August 2016 - 03:41 PM, said:

Then in Hades' name they should just go out and say it!

But of course they will do no such things. It will be financial suicide for them.

Or I should probably say, it will be even bigger financial suicide than what they are doing now.

Probably not, if they did so they would probably earn the respect of alot of the community. Ask Sader325 about Blade Sympathy's production when it was being made, and how the Devs listened to the community.

Mystere, on 10 August 2016 - 03:44 PM, said:

Please do share. I'm currently looking.

I don't know if you like it, but it is similar to ARK but came before it. It's called Rust. alot of servers and quite a bit of people to talk to and meet. although it's mostly a PvP game, there's also PVE for some. pretty good game too at $20 for what it is. and the Devs listen to the community and partake in it. And they're usually good about joking too.

[dervishx5]

Isn't that the game where you lure naked people into your hut and then murder them with a rock?