92 replies to this topic

[Idealsuspect]

dervishx5, on 10 August 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

In this case I meant Team = teamplay. Not solo que.

And this isn't exclusive to MWO. I brought up Team Fortress 2 as an example. Most snipers on there aren't interested in winning the game but more-so in shooting people. They're in it for themselves.

Snipers in solo que can make a difference. They can pick people off or distract. In solo que they can be an asset or hindrance based on the individual's performance.

In teamplay, especially organized teamplay, a lone sniper is a burden much more often than not for reasons I've explained thrice already.

Yea sure i am ok with this but you have to notice that more of 80% matchs played in this game are in solo QP ...
I guess OP wasn't talking only about group queue or like you only about competitive scene.

Me i have to say it's the first team-based game where i play only solo queue cause, not because i have no friends, i have enough i am invited every day but even in FW i dont find lots of advantage to play in group queue, match are too quick, soo soo easy or soo soo hard, MM is inexistant also it mean only stomp from a side, winning or lose no matter isnt interesting IMO no challenge...

But i know why .. it becose this game is really average, the only advantage of MWO is to play in battletech universe all others aspects aren't enough interesting. Ok it's a nice point & click BT adventure game.

dervishx5, on 10 August 2016 - 01:23 PM, said:

In teamplay, especially organized teamplay, a lone sniper is a burden much more often than not for reasons I've explained thrice already.

Why talk about a Lone sniper there is lone brawlers, lone lrms or lone light skirmisher...
If a guy play "lone" in a teamplay match, he is obviously a weight for his team more than anything else no matter if he is a sniper, brawler or anything else...

A good sniper IMO have to assum scout, mid-harrasser and long range snipe in same time and they have to assume and switch between each role depending of map situation.

Like i said before snipers weapons are the lowest DPS in the whole game also if the sniper don't shoot from early beginning of the fight to the end of match well he play his sniper role in bad way.
A gauss dire who wait at base can't really assume a true warefare role of a sniper o, battlefield IMO... He just deny his team one assaut mech but if people were smart they would use him as shield, playing behind this 100tonns gauss turret instead cry at end of match that this guy is full armor and still at same place than beginning.


And again i am not talking about competitive scene.
I am talking about MWO in overall which isn't really team based anymore because maps aren't well designed for team play, lots of basics team features like Voice IP, LFG or command wheel ( a nice one not the wheel we have now ) weren't release day one with the game but years after.
Release in poor minor version and we see that majority of players who play without it since beginning, don't really use after release cause it don't add a real advantage to use it ( not polished enough, not deep enough or maybe still not functionnal like command wheel.. simply useless for this game which isn't deep enought in same time )..

Edited by Idealsuspect, 10 August 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[Funkin Disher]

Ah, so we are on the same page.

I don't see the 1km teammate all that often, but I can't think of any build or mech that is useful a kilometre away.

[dervishx5]

Funkin Disher, on 10 August 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Ah, so we are on the same page.

I don't see the 1km teammate all that often, but I can't think of any build or mech that is useful a kilometre away.

3 Light Gauss Thanatos.

Oh wait, wrong game.

[darthJaeger]

Funkin Disher, on 10 August 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Ah, so we are on the same page.

I don't see the 1km teammate all that often, but I can't think of any build or mech that is useful a kilometre away.

Once apon a time the X-5 had an optimal range of 911m. It was a great sniper in Boreal.

[Aiden Skye]

darthJaeger, on 10 August 2016 - 03:02 PM, said:

Once apon a time the X-5 had an optimal range of 911m. It was a great sniper in Boreal.

I'm pretty sure IS-ER-PPC's went beyond 1k with the addition of velocity, cooldown and heat quirks as well, before energy range got nerfed to 10%.

[jweltsch]

Way I see it, there is two ways to properly play a sinper,

1 as a long ranged skirmisher on a fast mech, such as the double ll raven. Your job here is to not only do some damage but turn some of the enemy mechs away from the front line.

Where I see this job fail very often is through poor positioning, and frequently using weapons beyond optimal range. I ignore a LARGE number of snipers simply because they cannot inflict damage significant enough to be worth paying attention to because they are not in proper range.

2. As a rear line df support mech. This does NOT mean however that you should be any real appreciable distance behind your team (100-200 meters at most) but I see so many fails that are sitting 4-500+ meters off their teams lines, once again splashing a bunch of mechs for inconsequential damage. If you want to play this role, you better be firing as close to on cooldown as possible and not hiding behind hills, and guess what.... you will get shot at.

Further as a sniper if you are at 90+ percent armor when the match is over you have done it wrong, every team has long ranged weapons and if you are not causing enough trouble that the other team isnt shooting back you have failed. Armor sharing is EVERY bit as important in this game as doing damage and if you are not getting shot at, you just droped your teams armor by 1/12, and if you are in an assualt at 90 plus percent after the rest of the teams dead (dear god so many fail assualt snipers) YOU ARE DOING IT WRONG.

[Idealsuspect]

W A R K H A N, on 10 August 2016 - 04:59 PM, said:

I'm pretty sure IS-ER-PPC's went beyond 1k with the addition of velocity, cooldown and heat quirks as well, before energy range got nerfed to 10%.

Guess i never saw more than 938 meters with a thunderbold dont remember if it was ERLL or ERPPC.

[jweltsch]

DaZur, on 09 August 2016 - 02:05 PM, said:

Bullpucky.

No offense but if a sniper (I prefer ranged support myself) does their job it is not 11 versus 12, unless you consider me tanking damage for the team?

I can enumerate the times I've single handly suppressed half the team, allowing brawlers to close ranks and do their job. Which they never would have had opportunity if not for ranged support.

In fact... I argue a good sniper is in fact a force multiplyer!

In most cases the traditional sniper in this game is a waste of space. And yes, by not sharing your armor you are not doing your fair share of the match. By not sharing your armor you need to be CONSTANTLY be doing AT LEAST TWICE the average damage that the average mech is doing on the op for to be break even. And very, very few snipers can do that. You dont have to be a brawler, but at least be able to redirect enemy fire, most snipers in qp cannot do that, so nine times out of ten a sniper is just making you loose quicker. Most matches snipers do not decide whether the team wins, but frequently decide if it looses.

Cathy, on 09 August 2016 - 03:43 PM, said:

Sniper is a crack shot that stays behind after the other troops have left to take a toll on the other force until he is finally eliminated, though these days the hiding place is no longer a church bell tower of holly wood choice, but a mountain in the next valley to your target.

In MWO its a selfish bugger that sits at the back, not sharing armour, and pretending he's doing it for the team

Yep and then he will be so proud of all the damage he did and say how worthless his team that got ff down faster because he was not there to split their focus. I wonder how hard the sniper has to work in the testing grounds to get his damage..... about the same effect really, except after about 4 to 5 minutes all the mechs chase the sniper down and put him down mercilessly.

[darthJaeger]

jweltsch, on 10 August 2016 - 05:40 PM, said:

... You dont have to be a brawler, but at least be able to redirect enemy fire, most snipers in qp cannot do that, so nine times out of ten a sniper is just making you loose quicker. Most matches snipers do not decide whether the team wins, but frequently decide if it looses.

Ok a couple of points here;

1) I absolutely agree with being able to redirect enemy fire. A second line fire support mech is there to nail down an advancing mech or two with sustained suppressive fire (moderate to high DPS required). A stealthy sniper is a right royal pain in the arse, flanking the forward line and targeting their rear torso / rear side torso armor (decent alpha, ECM and moderate aiming skill required). However this role is not and has never been about "sharing armor", fire suport / sniper builds often shed points of armor in favour of tonnage in which we can carry more ammo or larger energry weapons !

2) Nine times out of ten a team loses because of their inability to focus fire. If the pilots that prefer close quarter combat could engage the target that has been already substantially damaged by fire support that enemy would drop quite quickly while fire support/snipers started work on your next target.

3) Facehugging the enemy is not helpful. It is not only the single biggest source of friendly fire, it also prevents ranged fire support from effecting the target. Learn how to move and fire as a lance and you will start to enjoy the game a lot more.

[Ted Wayz]

ScrapIron Prime, on 09 August 2016 - 06:40 AM, said:

More specifically, a snipers job is to control the enemy team. They limit their options by forcing them into cover and deprive them of Intel by shooting down UAVs. Make them hesitate, make them blind, buy your team time.

If a sniper is forcing you into cover you are bad.

Reduced damage over range...it is a thing.

[Vellron2005]

Personally, I allways try to shoot down any UAV I can reach.. I love the extra reward..

My favorite thing to do is hit it with a PPC.. that takes precision.. Great for target practice..

[Brizna]

Wow this thread has gone long. Well I just to clarify that in my original post by sniper I referred to those people who sit back there comfortably taking pot shots at enemies that are focused on someone else, there is stuff that can be done and significantly help your team win, sometimes it doesn't even involve the fire button.

Ironically the match that made me want to post that I was in a 4x PPC Warhammer which would qualify as an sniper mech under most definitions, of course I wasn't back there with the other 3 guys "sniping" I was right behind the Kodiak 3 so I was an exceptional witness of the event that costed us the match: I saw the first UAV go up into the sky and while my first reaction was try and destroy it it was not possible due to being to close to it and torso PPCs, so I proceeded to announce its presence by chat, to my dismay the UAV didn't go down 3 seconds later, in fact not even a laser grazed it, at that point lurms begun landing on our KDK-3, the poor guy simply could do nothing, he was already under cover but it was not high enough to prevent being hit from a crossfire, I finally decided I had to take it down whatever it took, it involved a complicated movement walking back and finally going up a rock and almost breaking my mech's back (so to speak) but I finally destroyed the UAV while doing that and it took 6-10 seconds I was witnessing the LURMS rain, shortly after I had destroyed the UAV came the second UAV, it was closer and I just couldn't aim at it so I had to witness the needless obliteration of our greatest asset in that battle in terms of DPS. The match of course was an enemy roll and both UAVs were just in plain sight of those 3 sniper back there, they didn't even flinch, they just shot up their personal statistics.... sigh.

[Drunken Skull]

I like snipers, they make great target practice for my Tri-ERPPC Marauder... especially the ECM ones... love poppin that ECM with a burst of PPC...

As for enemy UAV's, soon as I see one I shoot it down, that should be everyone's responsibility no matter what role they think they are playing.

Edited by Drunken Skull, 11 August 2016 - 05:09 AM.