233 replies to this topic

[Felicitatem Parco]

Please stop calling the new, upcoming heat penalty "Energy Draw" because it has nothing to do with drawing energy from a reactor. Operating the reloading mechanism of an AC/20 does not consume anywhere close to the amount of electrical power needed to fire two PPCs at once and accelerate those hydrogen nuclei to relativistic speeds.

Call it "Damage Cap"
Call it "Alpha Limit"

But, please, don't use the term Energy Draw anymore. It's not correct.

"Ghost Heat" is an accurate term because it describes phantom heat that comes from nowhere and should not exist.

Damage Cap or Alpha Limit are accurate terms that describe the function of this mechanic. There is no relationship between weapon damage and electrical consumption.

I made this thread so people stop fruitlessly speculating that this is a step toward adding more sim features such as electrical management.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 August 2016 - 10:00 AM.

[FupDup]

The proper terminology is Ghost Energy.

[Gas Guzzler]

Actually the real proper term is Ghost Heat 2.0

But I agree, Energy Draw is a terrible name for it and is very misleading. It has nothing to do with energy, and everything to do with damage.

[pyrocomp]

[PhoenixFire55]

Would you prefer if I'll be calling it "useless fkn bandaid" instead?

[Felicitatem Parco]

"Ghost Heat" is an accurate term because it describes phantom heat that comes from nowhere and should not exist.

Damage Cap or Alpha Limit are accurate terms that describe the function of this mechanic. There is no relationship between weapon damage and electrical consumption.

I made this thread so people stop fruitlessly speculating that this is a step toward adding more sim features such as electrical management.

Edited by Prosperity Park, 09 August 2016 - 09:59 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 August 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

Would you prefer if I'll be calling it "useless fkn bandaid" instead?

Why yes, I would as a matter of fact.

Prosperity Park, on 09 August 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

"Ghost Heat" is an accurate term because it describes phantom heat that comes from nowhere and should not exist.

Damage Cap or Alpha Limit are accurate terms that describe the function of this mechanic. There is no relationship between weapon damage and electrical consumption.

I made this thread so people stop fruitlessly speculating that this is a step toward adding more sim features such as electrical management.

I think "Energy Draw" has definitely led many players to believe there is more to it than there is.

Essentially, its Ghost heat that links all weapons to the 30 (TBR) damage limit, instead of each weapon individually like Ghost heat has it, with a HUD bar. That is literally all it is.

[Felicitatem Parco]

PhoenixFire55, on 09 August 2016 - 09:56 AM, said:

Would you prefer if I'll be calling it "useless fkn bandaid" instead?

Tell that to the people hoping this is a step toward more sim aspects (I.e. energy management)

[Cy Mitchell]

Seeing as how you made a totally separate thread complaining about the name, I will quote my response to your post in one of the other threads on this same subject:

Rampage, on 09 August 2016 - 10:03 AM, said:

How about "Anti-Alpha Warrior Online System"? Or AAWOS for short?

[pyrocomp]

Prosperity Park, on 09 August 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

"Ghost Heat" is an accurate term because it describes phantom heat that comes from nowhere and should not exist.

Ghost Heat might've been explained without Mind Bending and Logic Denial techniques if all the weapons were always linked (disregarding class, type and all) throughout the component of entire Mech. Simply as weapons having their own cooling capabilities that vent some heat and flushing the rest into the mech cooling system (some penalty on consistent RoF, by the way). But since it was added as a bandaid for linked groups by weapon type and so on, this explanation cannot be applied.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

The only harm that the term "energy draw" seems to have caused is players with poor reading comprehension making assumptions about how it only affects energy weapons, and by extension only deals with laser vomit, which they typically claim is pointless now since the tournament meta has shifted away from pure laser vomit builds.

Granted, a name that, in a vacuum and sans any explanations, implies that it deals directly with energy weapons when it actually applies to all weapon types is less than an ideal name. However, the underlying lore explanation for where the heat comes from is indeed related to drawing energy from the reactor. This does, then, seem like a case of using a lore-related term for a mechanic that is only loosely related to said lore, causing confusion.

Thus, Ghost Heat 2.0 might be a more efficacious term, but since PGI has claimed that it will be adding a UI element to show when you are exceeding your limit, Damage Limit is probably the most accurate term with the fewest false implications or confusing relationships with other aspects of the game.

Alpha limit wouldn't really work, since alpha is a specific term in Battletech related to firing every weapon you have mounted. This system doesn't limit only alphas, but group fire more generally (IIRC the number being floated about is 30 damage for the maximum burst damage without a heat spike).

[Gas Guzzler]

Levi Porphyrogenitus, on 09 August 2016 - 10:09 AM, said:

The only harm that the term "energy draw" seems to have caused is players with poor reading comprehension making assumptions about how it only affects energy weapons, and by extension only deals with laser vomit, which they typically claim is pointless now since the tournament meta has shifted away from pure laser vomit builds.

Granted, a name that, in a vacuum and sans any explanations, implies that it deals directly with energy weapons when it actually applies to all weapon types is less than an ideal name. However, the underlying lore explanation for where the heat comes from is indeed related to drawing energy from the reactor. This does, then, seem like a case of using a lore-related term for a mechanic that is only loosely related to said lore, causing confusion.

Thus, Ghost Heat 2.0 might be a more efficacious term, but since PGI has claimed that it will be adding a UI element to show when you are exceeding your limit, Damage Limit is probably the most accurate term with the fewest false implications or confusing relationships with other aspects of the game.

Alpha limit wouldn't really work, since alpha is a specific term in Battletech related to firing every weapon you have mounted. This system doesn't limit only alphas, but group fire more generally (IIRC the number being floated about is 30 damage for the maximum burst damage without a heat spike).

Nobody thinks it only applies to lasers. It does however primarily affect lasers, as they are the weapons that require high damage to be useful, that is their selling point. Energy draw is not going to affect 4 AC5 builds, as it is highly unlikely that PGI's damage limit will ever go below 20.

[kesmai]

we should convince them to adapt the tt heatscale system.
they could lower the penalties and or modify them.
maybe we can work out some sort of definition/denomination of a lowest agreeable chance/plan and propose it?
and we should keep it crips, clear and defined no wots.

[Narcissistic Martyr]

Prosperity Park, on 09 August 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Tell that to the people hoping this is a step toward more sim aspects (I.e. energy management)

Nah, we figured PGI was BSing us when they gave a basic explanation about what they were doing.

Sad thing is, this game NEEDs more sim aspects to balance it. It needs recoil, it needs a power draw system to limit alpha. It needs LRMs to be a viable weapon when used as a single LRM10 without them being OP when boated.

[dervishx5]

Competitive Butthurt is another word for it.

[PhoenixFire55]

Prosperity Park, on 09 August 2016 - 10:01 AM, said:

Tell that to the people hoping this is a step toward more sim aspects (I.e. energy management)

[Gas Guzzler]

dervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 10:22 AM, said:

Competitive Butthurt is another word for it.

More like Black Knight/Grasshopper/Stormcrow/HBK-IIC/MAD-IIC/Executioner/BNC-3M/Gargoyle/WHM-6D/any other energy boat Heavy/Assault fan butthurt.

You may not have noticed that I am not a competitive player anymore as the unit I am a part of is not currently competing in MWO.

[dervishx5]

Gas Guzzler, on 09 August 2016 - 10:27 AM, said:

More like Black Knight/Grasshopper/Stormcrow/HBK-IIC/MAD-IIC/Executioner/BNC-3M/Gargoyle/WHM-6D/any other energy boat Heavy/Assault fan butthurt.

You may not have noticed that I am not a competitive player anymore as the unit I am a part of is not currently competing in MWO.

haha you fell into my trap

[FupDup]

dervishx5, on 09 August 2016 - 10:30 AM, said:

haha you fell into my trap

But on a serious note, Guzzler does have a point. If PGI focuses Ghost Energy on just raw alpha strike damage, this means that it will seriously mess up weapon balancing. Weapons with high alpha but other weaknesses like lasers would get pooped on, while weapons with low alpha strike but high firing rate (AC's) get to mostly sidestep the system.

Pea Gee Eye has many opportunities to mess it up...

Edited by FupDup, 09 August 2016 - 10:32 AM.

[LordNothing]

its gh 2.0. i wouldn't call it anything else.

and gh2 is needed because of the lack of sim features. not to say it is one itself. on the contrary its very fudgy (see op). but it does solve problems which would also be solved by actual sim features like non-instant convergence. power management would be the least fun way to do sim features (the wrong way to sim). mechwarrior should be a sim but its hard to sell sims to people who just want a point and click game.