156 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

PORONOPAPOS, on 12 August 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

2. I'm the same person in both accounts, I play the same style in both, I do the same good or bad things in both, I see about the same people in both, I only play solo queue in both. So, why do I have so different W/L and K/D ratio from one to another account?

It has to do with the "quality" of players you get.

In a new account, you're expected to do nothing, and for most people that create an alt account... this is easy.

In an account where you've done the majority of your work, you're expected to "carry your weight", and not everyone does that on consistent basis. When enough people are "carrying their own weight", usually success happens.

The reality though is that there's enough "casual" players that are good enough, but don't care enough to be consistent.. you get the kinds of results that you do.

That's why when you see good teams, that do consistently well... despite the occasional loss, they often keep winning.

You get no such luxury in the solo queue, unless you are the one consistently carrying the team (and often times, many people "think" they are carrying, when they are not).

There's a reason why people try to gravitate to other players that they know in the solo queue and "try" to help them. Even if that team loses, they know they had a better shot of winning than one with people that they don't know, and you have no assurance of what the outcome would be.

Edited by Deathlike, 12 August 2016 - 07:34 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Mister Blastman, on 12 August 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:

If your team is that bad, then yes, you are screwed.

But if you play hundreds of games and have a sub 1:1 win/loss ratio, and still blame it on your teammates and the matchmaker, you are deluded. Poor performance on your own part is the only way you get chronically low ratios.



I got nothing but laughs.

Now quit trolling and try and post something useful or get out of the thread. I'm helping clarify the significance of playing well. But there are still folks (lots of folks) who think they're at the whim of fate and there is nothing they can ever do about it.

Helping to clarify your narcissism is all we see here.

[Mister Blastman]

Deathlike, on 12 August 2016 - 07:32 AM, said:

It has to do with the "quality" of players you get.

In a new account, you're expected to do nothing, and for most people that create an alt account... this is easy.

In an account where you've done the majority of your work, you're expected to "carry your weight", and not everyone does that on consistent basis. When enough people are "carrying their own weight", usually success happens.

The reality though is that there's enough "casual" players that are good enough, but don't care enough to be consistent.. you get the kinds of results that you do.

That's why when you see good teams, that do consistently well... despite the occasional loss, they often keep winning.

You get no such luxury in the solo queue, unless you are the one consistently carrying the team (and often times, many people "think" they are carrying, when they are not).

Deathlike is right.

When you created your new alt account, your tier started at 4, and it is easy to win in tier 4. I know because when PSR was implemented, due to my lack of playing prior, I was started at tier 4 and rose all the way up to where I'm now (max t1) and got to experience all the flavors of tiers (except for t5 ). When you start at tier 4, the game has little expectation of you being competent or capable of carrying your team, so it puts better teammates on your side than you might have if you're tier 1.

You also have the luxury of facing easier opponents when you are tier 4 as you don't get to see tier 1 players.

[Tanil Kane]

PORONOPAPOS, on 12 August 2016 - 07:23 AM, said:

3. you really believe that MM creates the 2 teams only by tiers and not in any case by names (you may laugh if you feel like, I don't)

MM can be streaky, but it's not prejudiced against your specific character.

One of the things that makes Match Making so difficult in MWO is that they can't control for mech builds.

One team full of nasty brawl builds vs another that's half poke half brawl on Mining Colony and the odds are significantly in the first teams favor, regardless of overall pilot skill.

Unless they figure out a way to put a battle value on builds, they are better off having MM just be two buckets. First bucket = T5's only, Second Bucket = Everyone else.

[Mister Blastman]

Tanil Kane, on 12 August 2016 - 07:38 AM, said:

MM can be streaky, but it's not prejudiced against your specific character.

One of the things that makes Match Making so difficult in MWO is that they can't control for mech builds.

One team full of nasty brawl builds vs another that's half poke half brawl on Mining Colony and the odds are significantly in the first teams favor, regardless of overall pilot skill.

Unless they figure out a way to put a battle value on builds, they are better off having MM just be two buckets. First bucket = T5's only, Second Bucket = Everyone else.

This is also a good point. Sometimes players drop in unusual builds to have fun. That's the nature of the PUG queue. The matchmaker knows no difference. So if a player who normally wins 2:1 drops in a LRM Jenner, well, whatever team they're on is probably down a player from the start.

So if you're stuck with that LRM Jenner, your choice is play harder and increase your odds of success or roll over and die.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 12 August 2016 - 07:40 AM.

[Dread Render]

LOOK HERE IS THE FACT!!!
You are only 1/12 of a team.
Sure you can have an effect on the game but no matter how good you think you are you are still only 1/12 of the team.
So... what am i saying.
W/L should be the least powerful stat you have. It should ONLY Count as 1/12 of anything!!!
GET IT?!?!?! 1/12 That's 0.083 !!!!
the Weight given to W/L is to great in this game.
It should count as practically Nothing... But Sure, Give it the 1/12th it actually deserves and No More!!

----edit---
*Drops mic and walks away

Edited by Dread Render, 12 August 2016 - 07:49 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Will someone please parse the first season leaderboard data and tell me how many players have below a 1:1 W/L? I see threads like this one all the time and I am not experiencing this myself and I play only solo QP. I havent always had the best K/D but I have always had a better than 1:1 W/L and was close to 2:1 last season in only solo games so I qm curious where the median and mean W/L are.

Edit: just to clarify, I consider myself to be a pretty average player. I have several thousand games under my belt so I know the ropes but I don't think I am an elite player by any stretch.

Edited by Lostdragon, 12 August 2016 - 07:55 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Lostdragon, on 12 August 2016 - 07:50 AM, said:

Will someone please parse the first season leaderboard data and tell me how many players have below a 1:1 W/L? I see threads like this one all the time and I am not experiencing this myself and I play only solo QP. I havent always had the best K/D but I have always had a better than 1:1 W/L and was close to 2:1 last season in only solo games so I qm curious where the median and mean W/L are.

Someone already did this.

Enjoy:

http://mwomercs.com/...ire-playerbase/

From perusing the first season's board I noticed a HUGE number of players below 1:1.

But the first thing you'll notice looking at the top graphic is low KDR correlates with a low win/loss, thus, poor performance equals bad results.

But you'll also notice some players had positive KDRs and still had bad win/loss ratios.

This is possible because there are some players who feel that playing as an ECM Raven Large Laser sniper is helping the team--or perhaps other players who sandbag to raise their KDR.

This is why KDR is not a definitive benchmark. The only way you can determine if a player is good or not is to look at how all the numbers relate to one another.

But one thing holds true in all cases... a very low win/loss ratio is primarily a result of the player themself.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 12 August 2016 - 07:57 AM.

[Ghogiel]

[Mister Blastman]

PORONOPAPOS, on 12 August 2016 - 08:03 AM, said:

Mister Blastman I already wrote it that my alt account is already T2 (for the whole season 2) and I meet the same people (regarding T1 players) in both accounts. From how I see my experience the only difference between 2 accounts is the name....

about personal performance and if it matters in W?L : in my main account most of my defeats end as stomps no matter how I did. In most I do as bad as the rest teammates, but there are few (about 1/10) that I do by far better score from the rest of the team (some times went around 900+ damage), that had zero influence in the outcome...
But in my alt account teams feel more balanced, I had many matches (season 2, being Tier2) that ended close (12-11 or 12-10 kind of scores),
for me the question remains: why stomp defeats happen way more often (almost exclusively) in my main account although the factors affecting the game are basically the same (players, mechs, my play style)

Ah, my basis was off your statement,

Quote

and turned to an alt account I created recently

I now see the t2 statement in the unusual formatting. 200+ games is a nice base and 1.2 win/loss isn't bad--it is semi-decent. Are you using identical robots and builds in each account?

[Mudhutwarrior]

No matter how much the white knights cajole facts and figures to fit their narrative its more than obvious to many in the player base that play is bad more than its good. We know know from multiple threads that MM is mixing 5s through 1s together quite often even though the first times this was posted about the same people white knighting here said it was impossible because paul or russ said so months ago on twitter.

I have no problem with any of you jumping on the blind ignorance bus but for many we know that there is a problem and it will effect whether more players leave in the near future.

No white knighting will fix that and they are fully deluded thinking what the reward will be in the end for them.

Like I said, weak minded will believe in unicorns till the bullet hits the bone.

[Mudhutwarrior]

PORONOPAPOS, on 12 August 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Ghogiel I'm well known of accusing others, you can open a new topic about it, it will fill several pages in no time

Long ago I admitted in my own thread here my intent with the synch dropping campaign. Mainly to troll the tryhards and it was truly effective. Even after all of that some of the most moronic still have some glee to think they are shaming me with posts like his. Gotta love it. The mouth breathing is awesome.

Keep up the good work in psych warfare!

[Johnny Z]

A while back I had a couple crazy losing streaks. Really bad on off times when few players were on.

I am sure it was fixed matches with groups synch dropping on private teams speak. There was even gloating on my team trying to start the fire so to speak.

I haven't had this happen since. But I can only assume this has happened to others because they were quite good at it.

I have mechs that I can do well in under any circumstances but lately I play Commando, Urbanmech, Raven, and King Crab to finish the event. So only advice I can give is to use easy mode mechs or at least strong mechs if this sort of thing bothers anyone. Get lots of practice to. A faster mech is best to avoid getting ganked.

Griefing/bullying is a thing in online games and real life to. Some use it without a second thought. Cops mostly.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 August 2016 - 08:51 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

PORONOPAPOS, on 12 August 2016 - 08:26 AM, said:

Mister Blastman For season 2 I played mainly Battlemaster in both accounts (same build), altough in main account I also had few matches with Banshee. In alt account I play Cheatah as light while in main account I had some matches with Firestarter and kitfox. I must admit that Cheatah is way more "easy" than my main account lights. But until last June I used to do fair in those lights... All changed around late June, then the stomps went more and more often.

And how many games in each, total?

That is curious, using the same robits. The one variable that is different is one account is t1, the other is t2. Perhaps your max out at t2 and t1 is just too punishing, given how it is weighting more responsibility on your shoulders?

[Lostdragon]

Mister Blastman, on 12 August 2016 - 07:54 AM, said:

Someone already did this.

Enjoy:

http://mwomercs.com/...ire-playerbase/

From perusing the first season's board I noticed a HUGE number of players below 1:1.

But the first thing you'll notice looking at the top graphic is low KDR correlates with a low win/loss, thus, poor performance equals bad results.

But you'll also notice some players had positive KDRs and still had bad win/loss ratios.

This is possible because there are some players who feel that playing as an ECM Raven Large Laser sniper is helping the team--or perhaps other players who sandbag to raise their KDR.

This is why KDR is not a definitive benchmark. The only way you can determine if a player is good or not is to look at how all the numbers relate to one another.

But one thing holds true in all cases... a very low win/loss ratio is primarily a result of the player themself.

I downloaded this data and did a quick couple of formulas. For people with at least 10 games (32049 players) 50.57% are at 1.0 or better. Only 5.79% are at 0.5 W/L or lower. About 22% are lower than .75 W/L.

The average W/L is 1.09 and median is 1.0.

So looks like all the crying about the MM can just be dismissed as it is indeed only whining based on skewed perceptions.

[Johnny Z]

Ghogiel, on 12 August 2016 - 08:11 AM, said:

I call out aim botters in matches to. Guess what? I don't see them in game again. Know why? Because they were botting.

Although it is rare I can be sure enough to call them out in a match. But it has happened. If I am really sure I ask my entire team to send a complaint.

Edited by Johnny Z, 12 August 2016 - 08:57 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Lostdragon, on 12 August 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I downloaded this data and did a quick couple of formulas. For people with at least 10 games (32049 players) 50.57% are at 1.0 or better. Only 5.79% are at 0.5 W/L or lower. About 22% are lower than .75 W/L.

The average W/L is 1.09 and median is 1.0.

So looks like all the crying about the MM can just be dismissed as it is indeed only whining based on skewed perceptions.

Ah-hah! Thank you for that! Interesting that the average w/l is 1.09 but I believe this figure is the result of Group Queue being combined with PUG Queue stats.

Group Queue naturally skews the win/loss ratio above 1:1 (provided you have decent teammates).

This is a big reason why Solo and Group stats should be separated for leaderboard purposes.

[Mudhutwarrior]

What the tryhards always leave out in their arguments of 8x10 full color glossy's and fact and figures is this game is based on sales.

In sales one fact rises above all the din and that is perception is reality to the customer. No amount of facts, figures, shaming or put downs will alter the perception. In fact it will only reinforce that. Now living in moms basement might not give you experience to understand these simple things but it doesn't matter.. You will white knight somewhere else when MWO is gone.
This is the life of a tryhard. Always has been.

[Mystere]

Lostdragon, on 12 August 2016 - 08:50 AM, said:

I downloaded this data and did a quick couple of formulas. For people with at least 10 games (32049 players) 50.57% are at 1.0 or better. Only 5.79% are at 0.5 W/L or lower. About 22% are lower than .75 W/L.

The average W/L is 1.09 and median is 1.0.

So looks like all the crying about the MM can just be dismissed as it is indeed only whining based on skewed perceptions.

Hey! Hey! Hey!

Science is not allowed on the forums, only wild speculation unsupported by hard data.

[Lostdragon]

Mudhutwarrior, on 12 August 2016 - 09:04 AM, said:

What the tryhards always leave out in their arguments of 8x10 full color glossy's and fact and figures is this game is based on sales.

In sales one fact rises above all the din and that is perception is reality to the customer. No amount of facts, figures, shaming or put downs will alter the perception. In fact it will only reinforce that. Now living in moms basement might not give you experience to understand these simple things but it doesn't matter.. You will white knight somewhere else when MWO is gone.
This is the life of a tryhard. Always has been.

The reality is players have different skill levels. If the MM was really unfair and horrible as people want to paint it them the mean and median W/L would not be 1, it would be significantly lower. In this case the customers saying the MM is terrible and doesn't work are demonstrably wrong. I am sure it would help PGI's sales is people could win all the time but that is just not realistic.

If I worked for PGI I would definitely consider the stats of the QP matches to be acceptable and as a reasonable player I do as well. I am definitely not a white knight, but the constant griping about the MM is just a distraction from the real issues the game has and should be ignored