156 replies to this topic

[crashlogic]

Mister Blastman, on 12 August 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

That's a pretty bad win/loss ratio on your main account. If you are below 1.0 win/loss then you need to be trying significantly harder to help your team. The way the matchmaker is structured, it aims to put all players at 1/1 win/loss. To go below 1/1 means you're doing things that hurt your team.

Not really true. It is possible to lose more often than not in the solo pug que. I have many matches where I lose and go up in tier.

[MOBAjobg]

...played against you in 3 matches yesterday and you killed me twice to win those matches. There was no doubt that those were difficult games for me to carryTHEhardest or virtually no chance to do anything of noteworthy for my team.

Gratz!, the good times have arrived for you again.

Edited by MOBAjobg, 15 September 2016 - 06:35 AM.

[crashlogic]

Poro carries a lot.

[MrMadguy]

PORONOPAPOS, on 15 September 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

Well, complaining in forums maybe works : yesterday I suddenly had significantly more wins (mostly stomps) than defeats. I even managed to win in one of my favorite kind of matches (last mech standing), I was last one alive against a raven, shadow cat and King Grab. Too bad for them they came one by one to kill me, maybe they read in this topic that I can't carry I also killed 2 of the KDK-3 early in the match (i would say that was quite a help for my team)

Same here. MM is definitely broken - there is some kind of hidden parameters, it tacks, in addition to just PSR rating. May be MM tracks W/L separately? May be it tracks 'Mechs, being leveled to force them to buy GXP conversion for $$$? Just because... After a week of non-stop losing all of a sudden I started to be carried and win at yesterday's night too. PGI! Why can't we simply have balanced matches? Why one team is supposed to be stomped and other is supposed to have predetermined victory. Yeah, win streak is great, but I know, that it won't last long - 1-2 days may be.

PORONOPAPOS, on 15 September 2016 - 07:17 AM, said:

If what you say : "Unless as mentioned, they rank you so high in MM, that you are expected to carry and carry hard" is true then I say again I never asked or wanted this, and also this is not how MM supposed to work. The idea was to give fairly equal skilled players to play with or against. Also as MrMadguy said, don't look my wins ranked, you have to choose K/D or average match score to have a better idea of player's skill, there I'm definitely way back. But even K/D is highly effected by the tier/ quality of matches you play. In my alt account I currently have 4.5 K/D and at season 3 first days I had 18....
I rarely play group queue (only if I'm invited) but I don't see much difference there.

Whole Ladderboard - is complete BS. It's just an illusion of competition, that has been given to us just to shut players, who asked for it, up. Just because, let's say, W/L = 1 in Tier 5 and W/L = 1 in Tier 1 - are two completely different things. Same with K/D and average Match Score. And things, like Total Wins don't even mean anything, cuz they're simply proportional to Matches Played. I.e. this Ladderboard = who has largest number of matches played. So. Only thing, that actually matters - is your PSR rating. And PGI still refuses to show it.

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 September 2016 - 08:01 AM.

[MrMadguy]

Halfway back to Tier 2, lol.

[MrMadguy]

PORONOPAPOS, on 15 September 2016 - 08:36 AM, said:

I totally agree with your description, others may not though. In my next alt account I may spent some real money to buy a full mastered KDK, Cheatah or some similar OP mech and see where in the W/L rank will be placed

I actually don't understand PGI. As I understand, tons of alt accounts - should be bad thing for them. Cuz at the end, it's extra server storage. I have always been thinking, that if there is global problem in game, that forces majority of players to use some crutches to solve it - then devs should fix it as fast as possible. At least via legalizing crutches, players are using. Example: Blizzard vs oQueue. If majority of players has to create alt accounts to reset their ratings - then something is wrong with matchmaking, that should be fixed. Or may be PGI should simply legalize rating resets?

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 September 2016 - 08:47 AM.

[Myantra]

MrMadguy, on 15 September 2016 - 08:46 AM, said:

I actually don't understand PGI. As I understand, tons of alt accounts - should be bad thing for them. Cuz at the end, it's extra server storage. I have always been thinking, that if there is global problem in game, that forces majority of players to use some crutches to solve it - then devs should fix it as fast as possible. At least via legalizing crutches, players are using. Example: Blizzard vs oQueue. If majority of players has to create alt accounts to reset their ratings - then something is wrong with matchmaking, that should be fixed. Or may be PGI should simply legalize rating resets?

The server storage is likely not an issue, as account information likely takes up very little space in a world where storage is relatively cheap. The bigger issue would be that a person using a bunch of accounts is not likely to spend much money on any of them. Having invested in all of the Clan packs, I am not going to start over again with an alt account. If I did, I would not be spending that money all over again.

[MW222]

Guys, Guys you have to remember whether the MM is broken or working as designed it's all about LOAD BALANCING in the end and Yes LOW BID.


I would also point the finger at the sales office drone and good old Russ.

[Clownwarlord]

Wow, this topic has been brought up by many and many have made threads over it.

The answer to your question is no MM/PGI doesn't hate you specifically, but MM/PGI does hate everyone equally. What PGI loves though is your money, so do you want to buy a mech pack?

[MrMadguy]

Clownwarlord, on 15 September 2016 - 09:39 AM, said:

Wow, this topic has been brought up by many and many have made threads over it.

The answer to your question is no MM/PGI doesn't hate you specifically, but MM/PGI does hate everyone equally. What PGI loves though is your money, so do you want to buy a mech pack?

I've invested around 700$ into this game. Yeah, I have never bought 'Mech packs. But not because I'm greedy or don't have enough money - that's because I don't need Light/Medium 'Mechs or don't like certain 'Mechs from this pack. May be some day PGI will understand, that nobody plays Lights/Mediums not because they are too weak, but because they're all ugly, and will finally stop making them OP. I have 70 'Mech bays. I've bought Hero variants of almost all 'Mechs, I have. I've bought several colors. I've bought camos for all 'Mechs, I have. So every time I see, that MM hates me, I ask myself this question - may be I've invested not enough? May be PGI want to gimp my CB/XP income to force me to invest even more money into buying new 'Mechs and leveling them via GXP, even if they're non-Hero ones? I guess, this method doesn't work, cuz last 'Mech, I've bought - is Ebon Jaguar. And only because I liked it's appearance, cuz it appeared to be extremely crappy 'Mech (too wide - too easy to hit STs and legs). I've bought it only due to this - because it's appearance is currently the closest one to my "ideal" 'Mech:

Edited by MrMadguy, 15 September 2016 - 11:09 AM.

[Deathlike]

I feel like I'm repeating myself here.

If everyone on your team put in an equal effort, your matches would still come down to who screwed up first before the snowball effect occurred.

When people are NOT on their game however (which is the norm), the side that has more people committing to work together tends to win.

Once you make the assumption "that not everyone is going to commit" and you see their damage numbers (for the most part), then it's easier to figure out what truly went wrong. The MM isn't trolling you intentionally... it's trolling everyone "equally".

When good players play... how do you think their W-L is above 1? Shrooms? Mary Jane? There's something that they are doing that you are unlikely doing. Sometimes just learning from what they are doing how you progress as a MechWarrior.

Otherwise, you're just going to repeat everything that causes you to lose... every so often anyways.

Sometimes I'd wish people look to better players and ask "what can I do better?" instead of "why is my team godawful?".

Edited by Deathlike, 15 September 2016 - 11:08 AM.

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

PORONOPAPOS, on 12 August 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

I know there are several people complaining about MM and the bad matches they get. But what I experience is a bit weird (at least that's how I feel).

For most of the time I play MWO I had good and bad matches but never had stomp defeats one after the other until recently. Starting from late June more and more of my defeats ended as stomps (0-12, 1-12 or 3-12 at best).
As season 2 started I decided to stop playing in this account (after playing around 90 matches) and turned to an alt account I created recently. Then magically stomps almost disappeared ! I mean I kept losing about half of the matches I played but at least these defeats were close ones !
OK, Assault event started so I went back to this account and guess what ? I played about 40 matches till now, I lost 30 or so of them but what is devastating is that almost all of these defeats were stomps !

- some data (only from season 2): in this account (tier1) I had K/D 1.4 and W/L around 0.7(before the assault event). In my alt account (tier2) I had K/D almost 3.6 and W/L 1.2 after playing around 270 matches. In both accounts I see basically the same known as T1 players regularly, but strangely I feel that in my main account I keep dropping with the ...wrong team every time.....

So here is my question : can this be random ? I'm just (sooo little ) unlucky for so long time (in the main account only) ? Or maybe there is some kind of black list of players that MM puts them in the more likely to lose team ? Just to make it clear I don't complain about the defeats but the way too many of them that are stomps.

First off, let me point out a couple things.

1 : (IMO) I personally dont consider a 3/12 a stomp, nor do I consider a 2/12 or 1/12s a stomp. A stomp (IMO) is a 0/12 game were the loosing team was unable to accumulate enough damage to match even a fourth of the winning team. This means the loosing team had absolutelly no chance of winning going into this game.

I can consider a 1/12 a good game if both teams damage output was high, that just means one team protected their wounded better and snowballed faster.

2 : not all T1 players are created equal. There are some players made out of sterner stuff. There are players out there that can win games on their own if left unattended. There are players out there, that if you dont send an equal amount of caliber at them, they will silently bulldoze their opposition.

3 : Match Maker wasnt implemented so you could get evenly matched games. They removed the old ELO system because a large portion of players complained queing into matches took too long. This new system speeds up the process while simultaneously trying to protect new players (and veterans at that same skill level) from more experienced players.

If you are in T2 and T1, then you have demonstrated the basic combat skills required to defend your self. You no longer need to be protected from being seal clubbing.

While T1s and T2s can make alts, they can only rampage in the lower tiers for a small window of time before they graduate into the upper levels. You should know this because you have an alt at T2.

4 : the current population of MWO isnt large enough to copy other match makers (like LoL and Overwatch) because in the end of the day, Mechwarrior is a Niche game. For what they have to work with, I can honestly say that the current PSR Tier system (IMO) is working pretty good in reguards to Solo Que.

[MrMadguy]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 15 September 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

First off, let me point out a couple things.

1 : (IMO) I personally dont consider a 3/12 a stomp, nor do I consider a 2/12 or 1/12s a stomp. A stomp (IMO) is a 0/12 game were the loosing team was unable to accumulate enough damage to match even a fourth of the winning team. This means the loosing team had absolutelly no chance of winning going into this game.

I can consider a 1/12 a good game if both teams damage output was high, that just means one team protected their wounded better and snowballed faster.

Depends on how match have been played - not on number of kills. If it was long match with lots of fighting, where losing team earned enough rewards to consider this match to be worth time, wasted on it - then yes, it isn't stomp. But if it's one minute match, where losing team earned close to zero rewards - then it's definitely stomp, even if it's not 0:12.

I think PGI change base PSR levels from time to time, when players start to complain about matchmaking. As you may know, PSR - is same old ELO matchmaking system. And ELO has problem with inflating/deflating ratings. What does it mean? Rating - is relative thing, not absolute. I.e. all, PSR rating says - is that player with 100 rating is better, than player with 90. But it doesn't tell anything about absolute level of skill, that is represented by this 100 rating. As I said - W/L = 1, K/D = 1 and MS = 200 in Tier 1 and Tier 5 - are two completely different things. So ratings may start to inflate or deflate. Inflating - top players start to have their ratings increased, chain reaction starts, that causes shift of all ratings up, so if yesterday's 100 rating meant better players - today it means worse players. Same with deflating. Why it's so big problem? Because your personal rating doesn't change, when you don't play the game! Imagine, that you have 100 rating and haven't been playing this game for a week. And during this week your 100 rating deflated and now represents more skilled players. What happens as the result? You start to be stomped, till you won't deflate your rating! Problem with PSR - is that it's extremely biased towards increasing, so it reacts to rating inflation way too fast, but way too slowly to rating deflation. That's why PGI have to inflate ratings manually from time to time to fix this problem. And, I guess, that's, what happened two days ago - they inflated our ratings, so we stopped being stomped.

Edited by MrMadguy, 16 September 2016 - 02:07 AM.

[Johnny Z]

Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky, on 15 September 2016 - 11:55 AM, said:

First off, let me point out a couple things.

1 : (IMO) I personally dont consider a 3/12 a stomp, nor do I consider a 2/12 or 1/12s a stomp. A stomp (IMO) is a 0/12 game were the loosing team was unable to accumulate enough damage to match even a fourth of the winning team. This means the loosing team had absolutelly no chance of winning going into this game.

I can consider a 1/12 a good game if both teams damage output was high, that just means one team protected their wounded better and snowballed faster.

2 : not all T1 players are created equal. There are some players made out of sterner stuff. There are players out there that can win games on their own if left unattended. There are players out there, that if you dont send an equal amount of caliber at them, they will silently bulldoze their opposition.

3 : Match Maker wasnt implemented so you could get evenly matched games. They removed the old ELO system because a large portion of players complained queing into matches took too long. This new system speeds up the process while simultaneously trying to protect new players (and veterans at that same skill level) from more experienced players.

If you are in T2 and T1, then you have demonstrated the basic combat skills required to defend your self. You no longer need to be protected from being seal clubbing.

While T1s and T2s can make alts, they can only rampage in the lower tiers for a small window of time before they graduate into the upper levels. You should know this because you have an alt at T2.

4 : the current population of MWO isnt large enough to copy other match makers (like LoL and Overwatch) because in the end of the day, Mechwarrior is a Niche game. For what they have to work with, I can honestly say that the current PSR Tier system (IMO) is working pretty good in reguards to Solo Que.

This is 110% right. Any new topics complaining about the match maker should be locked with this quote at the end.

[Dread Render]

Mister Blastman, on 12 August 2016 - 06:25 AM, said:

That's a pretty bad win/loss ratio on your main account. If you are below 1.0 win/loss then you need to be trying significantly harder to help your team. The way the matchmaker is structured, it aims to put all players at 1/1 win/loss. To go below 1/1 means you're doing things that hurt your team.

I responded way back when this post was new... and now i have a very different slant. I think I understand much better now and agree with what Master Blastman said.
The OP is only out for himself. To get that KDR and such a poor WL he must be pulling crap like waiting till the match is almost over, running in and getting all the easy kills he can... The WORST kind of Team member.
I'm sorry Master Blasman... You are totally correct and I was off on some other vein of thinking at the time.

[KingCobra]

PORONOPAPOS, on 12 August 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

I know there are several people complaining about MM and the bad matches they get. But what I experience is a bit weird (at least that's how I feel).

For most of the time I play MWO I had good and bad matches but never had stomp defeats one after the other until recently. Starting from late June more and more of my defeats ended as stomps (0-12, 1-12 or 3-12 at best).
As season 2 started I decided to stop playing in this account (after playing around 90 matches) and turned to an alt account I created recently. Then magically stomps almost disappeared ! I mean I kept losing about half of the matches I played but at least these defeats were close ones !
OK, Assault event started so I went back to this account and guess what ? I played about 40 matches till now, I lost 30 or so of them but what is devastating is that almost all of these defeats were stomps !

- some data (only from season 2): in this account (tier1) I had K/D 1.4 and W/L around 0.7(before the assault event). In my alt account (tier2) I had K/D almost 3.6 and W/L 1.2 after playing around 270 matches. In both accounts I see basically the same known as T1 players regularly, but strangely I feel that in my main account I keep dropping with the ...wrong team every time.....

So here is my question : can this be random ? I'm just (sooo little ) unlucky for so long time (in the main account only) ? Or maybe there is some kind of black list of players that MM puts them in the more likely to lose team ? Just to make it clear I don't complain about the defeats but the way too many of them that are stomps.

To be honest Some times I think PGI has a server AI that says ok this guy won 2 games now turn off his damage and strip his armor so he loses 20 games in a row.

But to be honest the game has really become so un-fun its crazy you have OP weapons and mechs now that can 1 shot you and you die or you get focused fired so fast your match lasts like 1 min tops.

I have had friends and family come back and try to play MWO only to say SCREW IT Im tired of dying so fast. And when they seek help on these lame forums 99% of the trolls attack and say (GET GUD) like R-tards.

Edited by KingCobra, 07 April 2017 - 11:06 AM.

[Davegt27]

Old thread

Haven't seen crash logic or Poronopapos in a long time