35 replies to this topic

[UnofficialOperator]

So I'm having a lot of fun in dakka KDK 3 and have really good damage most times. 400 most times and 800 to 1000 if I'm on a roll. Usually I focus fire from mid range and do get decent kills.

But I can't seem to get a good loadout on the SB to achieve comparable numbers. Mainly 200 to 300 damage even on a brawler config and not many kills. I just changed to lrm 15s (something which I always tell Pugs not to use) and seems to perform slightly better. But still bad.

[762 NATO]

Lurmers 10s is better? Otherwise you are building an Atlas that doesn't have structure quirks to speak of and you end up dying like a Fatlas. I am a terribad assault driver if it isn't a KDK 1-3 or Stalker though... Maybe you could try some of that guass, 2 ppcs and 3srm4s. Leave the engine heatsinks in, 3-4 tons of guass ammo and the rest in SRM ammo (2 tons?). Win pokes as possible and when the brawls happen, add arms to taste.

Edited by 762 NATO, 05 August 2016 - 10:11 PM.

[UnofficialOperator]

Guess I'll have to drop all LRMs. Just terribad weapons. Probably go with gauss and lazors

[S 0 L E N Y A]

As per your numbers you seem to be doing ok.
Plus your stats say you have a whopping 5 games in the SB, so maybe you just need more time in it?

Have you tried copying one of the metamechs builds?
Generally you just play SB like a fast Atlas.

IMO there are a couple must haves for the SB: 4x Srm6s with Artemis and MASC. SB is a lousy LRM carrier (that makes it Shame Bear, don't pilot Shame Bear) and lower count SRM launchers dont take advantage of the payload space of a 100t mech. Streaks are just daft in anything that isnt hunting light mechs.

Masc can be odd getting used to but combined with a clan Xl400 it is what really makes SB shine, otherwise an AS7-S would have SB beat in spades.

Few points on MASC
-it isnt just for running in straight lines in a hurry
-use it to quickly pop in and out of cover quickly
-use it to decrease turning radius
-use it to "stop on a dime"

For the ballistic point most folks recommend the LBX20, and I tend to agree. It syncs up perfectly with SRM6s and as soon as you squeeze the trigger you can immediately twist away any return fire .

Ive seen people use the UAC20 with reasonable success. Im not a fan though as it increases your face time with the enemy.

[UnofficialOperator]

I loled at shamebear. Its true though. Just did 598 with 2 lrms 15 2 srm 6 and 2 mpls. Needed to expend all ammo and feels underwhelming and had to hide most times.

[Steve Pryde]

I prefer a brawler build with 4 asrms6+lbx20+2spl(or flamer). Shoot and insta twist your torso away from the enemy. Had some awesome games with it, sadly I didn't record them.

[Ace Selin]

srms and uac20/lbx20 is best build really

Edited by Ace Selin, 15 August 2016 - 06:15 AM.

[UnofficialOperator]

Ace Selin, on 06 August 2016 - 01:07 AM, said:

lrm5, lrms10, lrm15, lrm20 + 2med pulse + masc

Target decay?

[TooDumbToQuit]

I have a build for it that has 3 X LRM 15 and one LRM 10. What Boogies calls my "Shame Bear", lol. But until I got a couple of Griffins, I did not have any Mech that can carry LRMs. I figured that 55 LRMs could be a thumper. I cannot stand back however so I use them in an almost direct fire mode.

My normal way to use LRMs is to link an LRM 5 with an ER LL.

Here is the semi-odd, "brawler" SB I'm running now. I normally never build anything without at least one long range weapon. It's only weapons are an LBX 20 AC and 4 Streak 6's that are linked and fire ripple style using a macro.

I tried to make it on Smurfy's but the last few times it has been wrong. On this one I'm supposed to have 9 more tons of ammo and when i posted an SCR build, it did not have the extra slot in the arms.

UnofficialOperator, on 06 August 2016 - 04:54 AM, said:

Target decay?

It is a Module that gives you up to 3.5 extra seconds of lock. So if your target moves behind something, chances are better that your LRMs (or streaks) will hit him.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 13 August 2016 - 09:27 AM.

[UnofficialOperator]

I tried a standard build with er ppc, ac20 srm6 but ran too hot. Now testing a 2 er ppc with srm 6 & mg build. Seems to be slightly more consistent.

[Elizander]

You have a lot of room in there for a CUAC20/4xSRM4+Artemis and 2 LPLs with 400XL. You can even throw in AMS to reduce the missile sting a little (doesn't matter if top players say only noobs die to lrms, in pug queue, everyone can die to LRMs). If you want to be a little tougher then the AMS will act like extra armor when you do get bombarded by missiles cause you really can't expect that ECM light mech to bother sticking beside you, right?

[TooDumbToQuit]

Btway, I like the KDK-3 so much, I bought a 2nd one, lol.


I no longer run the four UAC 10's or LBX 10's. I use 3 of them now and two ER LL's. (I love twin ER LL's) so I have a long range weapon (I have the extra range modules etc)

Here is the 2nd one, "Mjolnir". It has two Gauss linked to two ER LLs. There is a "left" Gauss and ER LL and a "right" one. I fire one (around a corner) ER LL and one Gauss or I can fire both at a time. I fire the lasers and just when they are finishing, I hit with the Gauss. Again, Smurfy's is off here.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...70f75087b4d55e6

I've been working on Head Shots and the KDK is good at them. I have gone through all the maps and through shooting at them and studying, I've found a number of the Head Shot places, like in the Atlas, it is the left eye.

Yesterday in my ACH which carries two ER LLs, I had two solo kills and 85 damage..lol.

[TooDumbToQuit]

UnofficialOperator, on 06 August 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

I tried a standard build with er ppc, ac20 srm6 but ran too hot. Now testing a 2 er ppc with srm 6 & mg build. Seems to be slightly more consistent.

Try using Fire control to stagger fire and reduce heat.

http://mwomercs.com/...c-306-16th-jul/

https://github.com/e...re-Control/wiki

P.S. The reason to use Streaks over SRMs? Streaks are light killers. So when your light's are no where to be found, you can defend yourself.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 06 August 2016 - 07:35 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

LikeUntoGod, on 06 August 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

Btway, I like the KDK-3 so much, I bought a 2nd one, lol.


I no longer run the four UAC 10's or LBX 10's. I use 3 of them now and two ER LL's. (I love twin ER LL's) so I have a long range weapon (I have the extra range modules etc)

Here is the 2nd one, "Mjolnir". It has two Gauss linked to two ER LLs. There is a "left" Gauss and ER LL and a "right" one. I fire one (around a corner) ER LL and one Gauss or I can fire both at a time. I fire the lasers and just when they are finishing, I hit with the Gauss. Again, Smurfy's is off here.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...70f75087b4d55e6

I've been working on Head Shots and the KDK is good at them. I have gone through all the maps and through shooting at them and studying, I've found a number of the Head Shot places, like in the Atlas, it is the left eye.

Yesterday in my ACH which carries two ER LLs, I had two solo kills and 85 damage..lol.

Your mechlab-fu is not good enough!!!

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...08eebfcac8891a1 - optimized.

Enjoy extra 10 kph speed.

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...47b50940e7fbf89

This would be my pick however, if you do not want to use the meta (PPC GAUSS) build.

Superb weapon sync, ABOVE COCKPIT gauss rifles. What you lose in range (150 m), you gain in duration and usability with the C-LPLs.

[TooDumbToQuit]

Keshav Murali, on 06 August 2016 - 07:37 AM, said:

Your mechlab-fu is not good enough!!! http://mwo.smurfy-ne...08eebfcac8891a1 - optimized. Enjoy extra 10 kph speed. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...47b50940e7fbf89 This would be my pick however, if you do not want to use the meta (PPC GAUSS) build. Superb weapon sync, ABOVE COCKPIT gauss rifles. What you lose in range (150 m), you gain in duration and usability with the C-LPLs.

I like it, I have to admit, I only have the one 370 which I have in my other KDK-3. I have four 315's that I took out of my Jenner II's (I use a 270 in them now for more armor and firepower). I need a few more engines, lol.

Since your Mechlab-Fu is strong....Can you explain to me cooling efficiency at Smufy's compared to the MWO Mechlab?

[UnofficialOperator]

Do you get extra credit or points for headshots?

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

I'm 90% sure this is how it works. Not 100%. Will be happy to be corrected if this is wrong

Cooling eff on Smurfy is really simple (My mechlab fu actually sucks)

For instance, let's consider http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d5344f23b81ab64

Smurfy takes the entire cycle of an alpha, in this case, weighted average of (the duration + cooldown of the IS LPL) and (duration + cooldown of IS ML) which is ~3.9 s

Calculation would be [3 * (LPL cycle) + 4* (ML cycle)] / 7 (no of weapons)

Now multiply this cycle value by the amount of heat dissipated by your mech every second. Since we have 20 DHS split as 10 engine DHS (0.2 h/s) and 10 ext DHS (0.14 h/s) we get 3.4 h/s as our dissipation. On multiplying, you get the value of heat dissipated per weapon cycle i.e. 3.4 * 3.9 = 13.3 heat.

Now divide this by the total heat generated on an alpha strike 13.3/37 (7*3 + 4*4)

~0.35 = 35%, which is the number displayed.

What this cooling efficiency number means is that, 35% of your alpha strike heat will be dissipated before the next alpha. It does NOT take into account quirks or skills (in which case my heat efficiency with this build is ~39%).

http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2426e78530c2cd6

Consider this next, cycle value would be [3 * 1.66 + 2* 3.9]/5

[Cycle value (5) * 2 (dissipation/s) ] / 11 is 0.46 which is 46%. (smurfy shows 47)

If you want ACCURATE sust/max DPS and cooling eff estimates, you'll have to do it all by hand, or download Li Song mechlab.


https://steamcommuni...s/?id=686548357 Smokey's excellent guide, includes information on how MWO's mechlab calculates cooling efficiency.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 06 August 2016 - 08:40 AM.

[TooDumbToQuit]

UnofficialOperator, on 06 August 2016 - 08:15 AM, said:

Do you get extra credit or points for headshots?

Not really, but it is simply an easier way to kill another Mech. The FIRST place people start cutting armor is the head. So you are often dealing with let's say 12 Armor. I think I got something the first time I did it.

And a Mech can be 100%, lose it's head and die. You have to find it first or hope to get lucky. It is normally 1-3 panels of "glass" and I found going to the test ranges and shooting at Mech to be the best way to find them.

I do not see that well so for me it is mostly a close in, knife fight thing. The other Mech is 20M away and you plug him. I have got some with my KDK-3 duel Gauss and ER LL's that I put down to luck. In theory, that one strike can put out 52 points of damage. And I use it on some maps to hit those just sticking their head up.

Keshav Murali, on 06 August 2016 - 08:37 AM, said:

[spoiler=How I'm sure smurfy's works]Cooling eff on Smurfy is really simple (My mechlab fu actually sucks) For instance, let's consider http://mwo.smurfy-ne...d5344f23b81ab64 Smurfy takes the entire cycle of an alpha, in this case, weighted average of (the duration + cooldown of the IS LPL) and (duration + cooldown of IS ML) which is ~3.9 s Calculation would be [3 * (LPL cycle) + 4* (ML cycle)] / 7 (no of weapons) Now multiply this cycle value by the amount of heat dissipated by your mech every second. Since we have 20 DHS split as 10 engine DHS (0.2 h/s) and 10 ext DHS (0.14 h/s) we get 3.4 h/s as our dissipation. On multiplying, you get the value of heat dissipated per weapon cycle i.e. 3.4 * 3.9 = 13.3 heat. Now divide this by the total heat generated on an alpha strike 13.3/37 (7*3 + 4*4) ~0.35 = 35%, which is the number displayed. What this cooling efficiency number means is that, 35% of your alpha strike heat will be dissipated before the next alpha. It does NOT take into account quirks or skills (in which case my heat efficiency with this build is ~39%). http://mwo.smurfy-ne...2426e78530c2cd6 Consider this next, cycle value would be [3 * 1.66 + 2* 3.9]/5 [Cycle value (5) * 2 (dissipation/s) ] / 11 is 0.46 which is 46%. (smurfy shows 47) If you want ACCURATE sust/max DPS and cooling eff estimates, you'll have to do it all by hand, or download Li Song mechlab. [/spoiler] https://steamcommuni...s/?id=686548357 Smokey's excellent guide, includes information on how MWO's mechlab calculates cooling efficiency.

No idea what you just said....lol. It made my brain hurt....I'll settle for comparing let's say 35% with the 1.3/2 ratio in the Mechlab.

Edited by LikeUntoGod, 06 August 2016 - 08:42 AM.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Cooling efficiency on smurfy --> percentage of heat on alpha striking dissipated before the next alpha strike

Cooling efficiency in MWO mech lab --> arbitrary, really. Check out smokey's guide

Should have known better than to post math.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 06 August 2016 - 08:57 AM.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

UnofficialOperator, on 06 August 2016 - 07:12 AM, said:

I tried a standard build with er ppc, ac20 srm6 but ran too hot. Now testing a 2 er ppc with srm 6 & mg build. Seems to be slightly more consistent.

Those are very chaotic builds. I actually think Shame Bear may be more viable