26 replies to this topic

[Jazzbandit1313]

Hey all, long time no see. I haven't been very active on the forums these past months, but I've discovered something very alarming, to me at least.

Way back when I didn't feel like buying more mechbays, I sold my beloved HGN-733C to free up some space, having bassic'd and earned enough XP to master the chassis later on. Fast forward about 2 years to this previous weekend's challenge and sale. I have a few empty mechbays, a good amount of c-bills, so I decide to buy the 732B and 733P. Not having touched this chassis for a long time, it took me some time to get back in the swing of piloting what used to be one of the most fearsome mechs on the battlefield.

Yet, during my grinding of both chassis, I noticed that The CT hitbox of the HGN is an absolute damage-magnet. Before all of you start to post the "L2P, Get Gud, Learn To Torso Twist noob" stuff, I've been around long enough that you can trust me when I say, I employ all of the damage-mitigation techniques I can, effectively using cover and torso-twist to the best of my ability. However, no matter how hard I try, I end up getting my CT stripped before any other component of my mech has orange armor status on a regular basis.

For example, a recent game on HPG surprised me to say the least. I took one Gauss Shell to the CT from 800M out and a few splashes from ERLL's at least 1200M out up on the wall. Aside from that, I took a few LRM30-45 swarms when peeking from cover, again incorporating torso twist and getting back into cover as fast as my 90 ton mech would allow me to. Much to my dismay, My CT was cherry red within a minute, even after dodging most of my enemy's attacks and damage. I also took an alarming amount of damage directly to my CT while turned completely sideways from the enemy multiple times.

This same story happens every single time I take out my HGN's for a stroll. No matter what I do or how much cover I take, my CT end s up absorbing almost all of the damage from laser spray or lrm salvos I take facing front or to the side. Yeah, the enemy might have incredibly good aim, but I don't think it can be pinned up to that, as I've played over 50 matches with my HGN's this weekend, and not every enemy will have top-tier pixel perfect aim when firing lasers at me from 800-1500M. CT armor is at 98+ on both variants of HGN's.

I'm not sure what might've caused this, maybe the re-scale did something funky with the hitboxes or something? And yes, I know this may sound like some low-skill player's plea because they can't adapt to the meta or pilot their mech effectively, but I've been here and playing regularly for 3.5~ years and I haven't whitnessed such a large CT hitbox on any other mech, and I've owned Awesomes and Gargoyles from the day they were available.

**Something to note here, When I pilot my Atlas, a mech that is considerably wider and 10 tons heavier, my CT hitbox feels much much smaller and I can spread damage much more effectively.

Anyone else experiencing this? Anyone think I'm full of crap? Go pilot a HGN for a few rounds.

Screenshot from the round mentioned above:


Here we see the supposed HGN hitboxes, thanks to raksarmory.blogspot.com (This was before the rescale)

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 16 August 2016 - 06:40 PM.

[cazidin]

Needs a little more ST hitbox, maybe 8% more.

[Felicitatem Parco]

You cannot see most shots until after they hit you because of server lag. You have to twist before the enemy shoots.

For instance if you see someone with a PPC and you twist right when you see them shoot, then you're getting hit in the CT because they fired about 1/4 - 1/2 second ago already

[Quicksilver Aberration]

It isn't the only mech, the Trebuchet, Wolverine, Grasshopper, and Banshee also suffers from overly large CTs.

They really need to do a hitbox pass on some of these mechs, specifically the ones I just mentioned (on top of the Highlanders).

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 August 2016 - 12:03 PM.

[Tordin]

Soooo it is xl friendly.. kinda. Hows that compared to the Victor?

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

It isn't the only mech, the Trebuchet, Wolverine, Grasshopper, and Banshee also suffers from overly large CTs.

They really need to do a hitbox pass on some of these mechs, specifically the ones I just mentioned (on top of the Highlanders).

Well. I think the Banshees hitboxes are great, sure cant hurt with a tiny bit shrinked CT but nothing in dire need. The Banshee I feel is thougher than even some 100 t mechs. But that might to be due to better torso twist, speed, hitboxes and deadly alpha friendly hardpoints.
Cant speak for the others, though I have the hopper, I almost never pilot it.

Edited by Tordin, 16 August 2016 - 12:05 PM.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Prosperity Park, on 16 August 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

You cannot see most shots until after they hit you because of server lag. You have to twist before the enemy shoots.

For instance if you see someone with a PPC and you twist right when you see them shoot, then you're getting hit in the CT because they fired about 1/4 - 1/2 second ago already

Yes, let me just dodge the enemy bullets before they fire them.

Something that is nigh-on impossible without 8000DPI and Twist-X while facing a PPC Grasshopper with a 50% PPC speed Quirk.

Edited by Jazzbandit1313, 16 August 2016 - 12:06 PM.

[Kangarad]

well you know what they say about big mechs...



the bigger they are the easier it is to hit center... be happy that you can twist your side torsy out of the way.
People whined about the KdK getting center cored too often... and got a small buff to that part.
People also whined abotu teh atlas getting killed too fast and got buffs to that one.

were going to see the new quirkageddon soon. just wait and see what the new turnament data gets em.

[Jazzbandit1313]

Tordin, on 16 August 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Soooo it is xl friendly.. kinda. Hows that compared to the Victor?

The biggest difference between the two is that the Victor feels like an oversized heavy mech and the HGN feels like an atlas with JJ's. Victor is a lot less XL friendly, but the chassis needs to have an XL engine to be effective these days (mostly).

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tordin, on 16 August 2016 - 12:03 PM, said:

Well. I think the Banshees hitboxes are great, sure cant hurt with a tiny bit shrinked CT but nothing in dire need.

There is a reason the Banshee fell out of favor in the meta for the Battlemaster, and it has everything to do with hitboxes (pre rescale and quirk nerfs). Even with a large engine, a good shot will nail your CT more than they really should be able to.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 August 2016 - 12:07 PM.

[Tordin]

Alright. Well the Victor should have gotten shrinked side torsos then and increased structure/ armor somewhat to compensate. Oh yeah and rocket jets!

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

There is a reason the Banshee fell out of favor in the meta for the Battlemaster, and it has everything to do with hitboxes (pre rescale and quirk nerfs). Even with a large engine, a good shot will nail your CT more than they really should be able to.

Oh the meta, how I hate it so.. When its static mind you. In any game a healthy meta is a regurarly shifting one.
So they choose the Battlemaster over the lovely Banshee huh... Due to the BM having better energy quirks as I recall?
Well okay, I mainly use Banshees with ballistics and support zappers anyway. Works wonder in Puglandia and pretty decent last time I played CW/ FW/ BO'B.

Edited by Tordin, 16 August 2016 - 12:12 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Tordin, on 16 August 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

Oh the meta, how I hate it so.. When its static mind you. In any game a healthy meta is a regurarly shifting one.
So they choose the Battlemaster over the lovely Banshee huh... Due to the BM having better energy quirks as I recall?
Well okay, I mainly use Banshees with ballistics and support zappers anyway. Works wonder in Puglandia and pretty decent last time I played CW/ FW/ BO'B.

He said in his post that it was because of the Battlemasters hitboxes, not quirks.


I actually a healthy meta is diverse with lots of options. Shifting between which option has the "hair" of an advantage is good, but not landslide shifts.

[Tordin]

True, I went right past that. Well even if the Banshee got some adjustments I dont think it will help THAT much. Since its overall bigger anyhow. Oh well.

Yeah, I agree. Kinda suspect a real big dakka avalanche coming after the new heat system.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Tordin, on 16 August 2016 - 12:07 PM, said:

Works wonder in Puglandia and pretty decent last time I played CW/ FW

A lot of things work in Puglandia/CW/FW, so saying it does isn't really saying much.

As Gas said though, the original shift from Banshees to Battlemasters was actually due to hitboxes and the Banshee being squishier than the Battlemaster despite the Banshee actually have the better energy quirks (after the rescale, the gap between the two widened).

I would love for it to be viable with a STD engine, but as it currently stands, not going an XL is a detriment in a banshee.

Edited by Quicksilver Kalasa, 16 August 2016 - 12:27 PM.

[El Bandito]

Jazzbandit1313, on 16 August 2016 - 11:56 AM, said:

Aside from that, I took a few LRM30-45 swarms when peeking from cover, again incorporating torso twist and getting back into cover as fast as my 95 mech would allow me to.

**Something to note here, When I pilot my Atlas, a mech that is considerably wider and 5 tons heavier, my CT hitbox feels much much smaller and I can spread damage much more effectively.

Highlander is 90 ton mech, BTW. Not 95.

[Deathlike]

So, the Fatlander is fat.

...and to think, it was the Hoverjets™ fault.

[Pilotasso]

Highlanders are my fav mechs (both IS and IIC) despite their vulnerabilities.
Yeah, they wont brawl as well as others.

Usually I run support builds with either PPC's, or LRM at long range coupled with large ballistics or SRM stacked up to let my enemies know they have entered my hygienic space.

My only exception to this is the heavy metal, I run 3xLL+gauss for pinpoint damage.

Another thing I use as mandatory to have in every single of these, is ferro fibrous armor. I know what people say about it, but I found it buys precious seconds when I had to brawl.

Love them so much that My atlases are left in the dust. They are glass cannons like the highlander but the extra speed and agility of the later still makes it more survivable IMHO.

[Quicksilver Aberration]

Pilotasso, on 16 August 2016 - 12:28 PM, said:

Another thing I use as mandatory to have in every single of these, is ferro fibrous armor. I know what people say about it, but I found it buys precious seconds when I had to brawl.

Ferro doesn't offer extra protection, it is just lighter, so if you are running ferro over endo you actually could build it better without losing anything.

[Pilotasso]

FF gets 20% more protection per ton as in the instructions. Or is it a lie?

[Revis Volek]

Kangarad, on 16 August 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

well you know what they say about big mechs...



the bigger they are the easier it is to hit center... be happy that you can twist your side torsy out of the way.
People whined about the KdK getting center cored too often... and got a small buff to that part.
People also whined abotu teh atlas getting killed too fast and got buffs to that one.

were going to see the new quirkageddon soon. just wait and see what the new turnament data gets em.

If there is even a game to play by the time they finish, the burn out and monotony is real in this game.

[kapusta11]

Quicksilver Kalasa, on 16 August 2016 - 12:02 PM, said:

It isn't the only mech, the Trebuchet, Wolverine, Grasshopper, and Banshee also suffers from overly large CTs.

They really need to do a hitbox pass on some of these mechs, specifically the ones I just mentioned (on top of the Highlanders).

Smaller CT means bigger STs, there's not much you can do about that and all of those mechs benefit greatly from XL engine. I'd prefer people to aim for my Banshee's CT with 115 armor and 60 structure over much squishier STs.