337 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Leggin Ho, on 19 August 2016 - 05:27 PM, said:

WOW, please let me know what clan mech can mout 2 Gauss, 4PPC and still have room for JJ's and any ammo or HS, I'd really love to have that build. Post the Smurfy link for me, I need that one, I mean I'm building mechs wrong to have never stumbled onto that powerhouse. I remember seeing 1/2 of that mech, it was the Cataphrak 3d with 1 gauss and 2 PPC's, but if you have one of those Clan mechs loaded that way share the wealth.

He clearly wasn't here for the poptart days.

Traditionally, it was Gauss+2xERPPC, Gauss+2xPPC, or 2xAC5+2xPPC.

But it wasn't about the firepower (though the gauss based variants hit the magic 35 damage (well, >33 damage) which allowed instant kill headshots without crits) it was about being able to fire that 30-35 damage strike without exposing your mech for any significant amount of time. Corner/ridge peeking couldn't compete.

And it wasn't 2-4 per match, at non-potato play levels, it was every mech. Shadowhawks, CTF-3D's, Victors, and many more.

JJ's are thoroughly borked now, so you can't get the minimal exposure. This takes away the best advantage of those 30-35pt PPFLD strikes.

[Wing 0]

Fobhopper, on 19 August 2016 - 12:21 PM, said:

You do know why the 'charger' mechanic was added to gauss right? because clanners were stacking 2 gauss rifles with 4 PPC's and a couple jump jets, pop tart over a ridge and pretty much instantly kill mechs. While the Heavy Metal and one or two other mechs on the IS were notorious for this, when the first clan wave hit and you had warhawks and direwolves stacking gauss with pulse/ppc and doing so much instant, front loaded damage that it was literally making people quit the game. Thats why the ghost heat and gauss delay was introduced to stop that kind of gameplay because it was pretty common to see 2-4 mechs on a team with the poptart build every match. which is where this animation comes from:

playing on our favorite frozen mountain meant certain death when trying to charge hamburger hill if you couldnt go faster than 100kph.

Idiot. were you around during the time of closed beta? And I'm talking about back in the very early days when there was no ghost heat. I know why ghost heat was made to begin with already. You think I didn't know that? get your facts straight. Clan mechs wernt even around when ghost heat was first implemented..

Have you ever played Mech4? Poptarting has always been part of the game and always will be. I still see it going on even before gauss charge was put in play. Bringing plexi's video up indicates that you couldn't find a way around against a poptarting strategy like many of us have.

4 PPC's and 2 Gauss WTF? where did this idiocy come from. I like to know what mech would be able to do such a thing. I don't recall seeing one except maybe 3 PPC's and 2 Gauss in Mech4 In NHUA Servers. Care to explain where what mech can build that and not worry about heat?

Edited by Wing 0, 19 August 2016 - 05:52 PM.

[Strelok7]

Constructive response

Energy draw system is inconsistent, I don't know exactly why. I kept variables equal. Absolutely same mechs, just switching between Public Test and Regular client. Same map.


UAC5 (Inner Sphere),(no Alphas, just quick fire)
Public Test

• Reaches 100% heat much easier, and that is without energy draw penalty.
  
• Unpleasant to use - sluggish, cool down time is longer, not as smooth.

Regular Client

• Does not reach 100% heat as fast.
  
• Does not feel as sluggish, because cool down time is faster.

Clan mech, 7 Small Lasers.

Public Test

• I did 3 alphas, got energy penalty, heat went up 38%-65%-95%.

Regular Client

• 3 alphas, heat went up 40%-71%-Shut down

So yes I get more alphas under Public Test client. And that is a clan mech.


Different clan mech, Ultra AC20, 2Med laser, 2Small lasers
Public Test

• 2 Alphas, got heat penalty, overheated and shut down on 3rd Alpha.

Regular Client

• 3 alphas no problem, overheated on the 4th Alpha.

Conclusion

Gutting the game, just to introduce the "Energy Draw" may produce a ton of Hot Fixes down the road. And people don't like change to begin with. There is a difference between improving and moving on, vs balancing the daylight out of the project and standing still.

The energy draw system is definitely very intuitive, so no problem there. Flame icon may be not necessary.

P.S. I'd vote to leave Gauss and Cool Modules exactly the same.

Edited by Strelok7, 19 August 2016 - 05:47 PM.

[LTG Renner]

I feel this is a very good step in the right direction. As anything of this magnitude would it need some tweaking or quirking something. May I suggest this as food for thought, Make the energy draw pool based on the engine rating. For example if you use a 400 rating engine you get 40 energy as a draw pool,
a 395 would be 39.5
a 375 gives 37.5
a 250 gives 25
a 100 gives 10
It makes logical sense it allows people that really have to have 4 uac10s, 6 c-meds, 3 c-ERLL, 4 LRM20 able to at a cost of ammo, armor, weight what have you.

Pros? cons? what do people think?

I would prefer a system where as you get hotter your mech slows down and has a hard time doing basic functions like giving you information. If there where some way to marry this and the power draw system?

Edited by LTG Renner, 20 August 2016 - 12:52 AM.

[Tiantara]

LTG Renner, on 20 August 2016 - 12:22 AM, said:

I feel this is a very good step in the right direction. As anything of this magnitude would it need some tweaking or quirking something. May I suggest this as food for thought, Make the energy draw pool based on the engine rating. For example if you use a 400 rating engine you get 40 energy as a draw pool,
a 395 would be 39.5
a 375 gives 37.5
a 250 gives 25
a 100 gives 10
It makes logical sense it allows people that really have to have 4 uac10s, 6 c-meds, 3 c-ERLL, 4 LRM20 able to at a cost of ammo, armor, weight what have you.

Pros? cons? what do people think?

I would prefer a system where as you get hotter your mech slows down and has a hard time doing basic functions like giving you information. If there where some way to marry this and the power draw system?

- I see your point here, but I already wrote why it's bad idea. See... IS mech have possibility to change engine. More powerful engine = more weigh. Not all mech can use XL, because it make them running bombs. One good shot and you dead. No one love play mech which can be killed by one shot. Ok, make engine STD - than you got less armor and less weapon. For what you need energy pool if you stay with few lasers? Engine change - matter of speed and maneuver. Want more speed, got bigger engine, less weapon.
Some mech have fixed engine - that brings another problem.
With same engine IS and Clans mech would have different amount of weapon. Forcing all IS mech to have XL, really bad idea.

Energy pool can be capped by chassis. I wrote it in some of my posts and comments. And only based on presented in store alphas of each mech in 4 category by cutting in half their max possible alpha based on strick 1 heatmanagement. Not less.
Like - mech with heat management = 1\2 can hold overall firepower = 53, than energy pool must be 25.

If chain engine to energy pool - some mech just burn out in stock builds.

[GutterBoy5]

https://youtu.be/PivDRC95FN0

[Rick Windwalker]

Why a a new HUD-bar? Why not use the "useless" and ugly cockpit monitors for the heat/energy/whatever-bars

Rick
out

[Tiantara]

Rick Windwalker, on 20 August 2016 - 04:14 AM, said:

Why a a new HUD-bar? Why not use the "useless" and ugly cockpit monitors for the heat/energy/whatever-bars

Rick
out

- Some gamers (like me) turn them off to save resources of graphic card...

[Rick Windwalker]

Tiantara, on 20 August 2016 - 04:18 AM, said:

- Some gamers (like me) turn them off to save resources of graphic card...

hehe, what do you think i did after 2-3 mins watching these useless blurryness which makes my eyes burn.

Anyway, would love to see cockpitmonitors to be filled with some usefull information like e.g. heat-bars, outside temperature, list of equipped modules, overview of the condition of heatsinks + how many are submerged in water and being more effective) ...

Edited by Rick Windwalker, 20 August 2016 - 04:30 AM.

[Tiantara]

Rick Windwalker, on 20 August 2016 - 04:28 AM, said:

hehe, what do you think i did after 2-3 mins watching these useless blurryness which makes my eyes burn.

Anyway, would love to see cockpitmonitors to be filled with some usefull information like e.g. heat-bars, outside temperature, list of equipped modules, overview of the condition of heatsinks + how many are submerged in water and being more effective) ...

- Better info about which components already dead... like computer, heatsink, beagle... and so on.

[Flying Fox 333]

LORD ORION, on 19 August 2016 - 05:09 AM, said:

ANH-1G has 3 Gauss and an ERPPC

I thought for sure PGI would release the Annihilator as the counter to the Kodiak... and and and... make the ANH-C2 the hero variant so people would lose their **** and buy a million mech packs. (It's an IS mech that uses clan tech: 4x clan gauss and CLERPPC)

Thanks. The C2 variant would be interesting given it has clan technology on an IS mech. Seems possible to do within the game right now, but I guess the question i'd have is if that variant should be the only one capable of carrying said tech according to lore or would this open the door to retrofits to other IS variants and indeed chassis.

[Twilight Fenrir]

I haven't gotten around to the test servers yet, but I feel like you're testing too many things at once. If you want to check how a mechanic alters gameplay, only that mechanic should be changed. Rebalancing all the weapons and such at the same time alters the 'feel' of the game drastically, and you can't focus on the new structure...

That being said, I like the sound of the broad strokes of the system. I just about jumped off my couch and did a happy dance when I read that gauss charge was dead. It's a shame that only two can be mounted, but honestly, I only have the one Dire Wolf with 4 that I drag out for fun every now and then, so I'm not gonna be heartbroken over that. Though it does mean that the Gausszilla (5 Gauss rifle Annihilator) would never happen, and that makes me cry

Intuitively, I would like to see ballistics and missile weapons pull less of an energy draw than a laser... From a real-world mechanical aspect, that just makes common sense to me o.o Dumping gigawatts of power into a laser beam versus pumping a shell into a receiver is a pretty huge energy disparity. Maybe it doesn't from a gameplay perspective, I don't know, I'm not a game designer... but that's my opinion. Maybe it will change if I actually manage to get into the PTS.

[Mudhutwarrior]

I know this is about energy draw but I would like to point something out to the devs slightly off topic. I posted this on PTS is fun thread and would like the devs to see it.

Mudhutwarrior, on 20 August 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:

PTS taught me something I think is important. After continuous beat downs in quick play I doubted my abilities would allow me to continue. It wears you down. My scores went down dramatically over time.

I jumped into PTS and had a blast building and trying mechs but what is most important was 4x4 play. I started to see my abilities better. Not the best and maybe not even that good but ok. I had made an impact in each macth and in a few against good opponents I made an account of myself. 300- 750 damage and one or two kills was the norm all of a sudden. Against good players too.

This morning I jumped into the fray on the regular server and be damned my game play improved dramatically. I was happy for once in my performance.

I think that goes to show how important a good MM is because when its bad it drains the will to fight better. Maybe we need a smaller match area like 4x4 or 8x8 again. In 12 man battles its hard to get a good account for yourself in quick play. The team players who come down in noob land just tear up with concentrated fire too quickly and even if your in a good fight you usually die fast from other mechs defending their teammate. There is a place for solid team play but in QP I think 12v12 doesn't more harm than good for new or casual players.

I would push to go back to 8v8 at a minimum or maybe PGI should consider bringing 4x4 to general play. It may help retain those who see the climb as impossible now. 4x4 definitely improved my attitude and now I am thinking of dropping some coin to buy mechs I tried out.

[GweNTLeR]

Dear PGI,
Please consider adding a capacitor module. Simple tradeoff: you lose 1 weapon/mech module and get a bigger (+15% energy sounds fair) alpha.

[BLOOD WOLF]

GweNTLeR, on 20 August 2016 - 10:03 PM, said:

Dear PGI,
Please consider adding a capacitor module. Simple tradeoff: you lose 1 weapon/mech module and get a bigger (+15% energy sounds fair) alpha.

"fair", while their at it, give my T-wolf the strength of superman

[GweNTLeR]

BLOOD WOLF, on 20 August 2016 - 10:18 PM, said:

"fair", while their at it, give my T-wolf the strength of superman

A bit more constructive,maybe?

[Pretty Penny]

I really don't like this idea!

[GweNTLeR]

And please consider adding correlation between remaining energy and current speed-for example:
Standing still-35 energy remaining & recharge rate 25;
Cruise speed(60-70%)-30 energy remaining & recharge rate 20;
Full speed-20 energy remaining & recharge rate 12.5.
This will make the game much more interesting and balance all mech classes in my opinion.

[Wibble in a Clan can]

Please PGI ignore the overwhelming amount of stupid on this thread.
Energy draw shits all over "Ghost Heat". Much more intuitive, still meets the same objective. Just implement it already.

[Nightshade24]

shopsmart, on 18 August 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

If gauss equip stays true. I will eliminate some mechs that are lore with 3+ from ever existing here. But like the instant fire.

And how many had 3+ in lore?...

Rifleman III....
Gausszilla...

Both of which heavily out of time line and uses so much tech like compressed engines and stuff to fit those weapons on... not going to effect MW: O for like decades and when we get to that point what happens? well, we have a pair of HAG 40's possible for assault mechs= long range 80 damage alpha strike... so 4 gauss rifles in the year 3080's will not be the biggest problem PGI will have....