337 replies to this topic

[MovinTarget]

Tiantara, on 21 August 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

- All weapon become slower. It's a test. If something become too slow - it can be brought back. Or have less % of jamming instead. Test, calculate, write all you see. maybe some of that helps to make system better and battles longer.

But its good to hear what others are testing b/c no one can test everything...

[Tiantara]

MovinTarget, on 21 August 2016 - 05:32 PM, said:

But its good to hear what others are testing b/c no one can test everything...

- I can easy to say what I test:
1. Forgotten mech with big size and low firepower. To find way of bringing them back.
2. Heat management efficient and how that affect current ED+normal heating. Below 1 or above 1.
3. Burst fire (alpha), partial burst fire (split alpha), chainfire, mixbuild (different range weapon pack).
4. Light mech possibility to lower ED pool. Medium and heavy mech under current ED pool. Assaults with split firepower. Overall possibility to make ED pool depended on mech class (light, medium, heavy and assault).
5. How useful STD engine on IS mech and variation - XL vs STD in some model. Making stock mech playable again.
6. Disadvantage of Clan mech. How several damage to component or loosing part of engine affects mech in battle. Their possible fire pattern.
7. Disadvantage of IS mech. How damage and different fire pattern affect them.
8. How work firepower and what message need to show player if heat management went lower than 1-1.1.
9. Way to make space for brawlers take position under heavy longrange fire.
And so on.. That 9 position make my interest. Indeed some conclusion based on what I see and try. When here no FW - i can bring theory about how it work... I have mechanic and here many way to tweak it or improve. But it is. And in some situation it works well. Not perfect, but pretty well.

Edited by Tiantara, 21 August 2016 - 05:49 PM.

[BadgerWI]

"The gauss rifle charge mechanic has been removed"

Thank the maker!

[NocturnalBeast]

BadgerWI, on 21 August 2016 - 06:33 PM, said:

"The gauss rifle charge mechanic has been removed"

Thank the maker!

Ah, brawling Gauss again.

[Nomad Radick]

I'm a bit confused... Does this mean no more shutting down when overheated? Please tell me that's not the case.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Nomad Radick, on 22 August 2016 - 03:03 AM, said:

I'm a bit confused... Does this mean no more shutting down when overheated? Please tell me that's not the case.

how are you confused? Nowhere is it suggested that you do not shut down when overheated.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Avimimus, on 21 August 2016 - 05:22 AM, said:

As for the small number of play testers:

- The PTS is being run during an event

- We get no CBills or other benefits from acting as testers

So, we're being hit doubly.

I joined the event sat and finnished the next day intending to go back to pts. Problem is I have free premium time I need to burn for cash while I level highlander iic's. I didn't account for that.

Still I will go back to PTS because 4x4 is the most fun I have had in years here.

[Nomad Radick]

BLOOD WOLF, on 22 August 2016 - 03:07 AM, said:

how are you confused? Nowhere is it suggested that you do not shut down when overheated.

Sorry, it's too much info and not summarized well.

[Clideb50]

Nomad Radick, on 22 August 2016 - 03:14 AM, said:

Sorry, it's too much info and not summarized well.

This is planned to replace ghost heat. (the heat penalty you get from firing more than 6 medium lasers at once.) Instead of the random number ghost heat, you have a battery. As you fire weapons, (everything except machine guns, and flame throwers) you drain from the battery. If you use more power than the battery has available, you take extra heat. All other heat effects like shutdown and heat damage still exist.

For example:
-Your battery has 30 pts and it recharges 20 pts a second.
-You fire 6 medium lasers. (5 dmg each) (battery is now at 0) (your heat increases normally)
-You fire 2 ac 20's a second later. (battery had 1 second to recharge back up to 20, but you just used 40.)
(you overdraw from the battery by 20 pts. You take a heat penalty on top of the normal heat!)
-Your target is dead after the 40 blast so you are no longer firing anything. (battery is back up to 30 after 1 or 2 seconds, and the heat is cooling down)

TL:DR it's a capacitor/ battery system where using too much power gives you a heat penalty. Does that help at all?

Edited by Clideb50, 22 August 2016 - 03:57 AM.

[HammerMaster]

The only people I see crying are the min/maxers. For me. I almost exclusively run TT style mix builds. My LRM boats ALWAYS have back up weapons. My brawl mechs have a split mix. Old system didn't penalize me. New system WON'T PENALIZE me. (Except for gauss charge. I always hated it. It penalized me even though I wasn't an exploiter) I fail to see the problem.

Edited by HammerMaster, 22 August 2016 - 04:56 AM.

[Tiantara]

HammerMaster, on 22 August 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

The only people I see crying are the min/maxers. For me. I almost exclusively run TT style mix builds. My LRM boats ALWAYS have back up weapons. My brawl mechs have a split mix. Old system didn't penalize me. New system WON'T PENALIZE me. (Except for gauss charge. I always hated it. It penalized me even though I wasn't an exploiter) I fail to see the problem.

- Mostly max-power user. I don't know when pilots count all firepower as alpha. Firepower is sum of all weapon mech can bring. Not fire all of that at once. Making Energy Draw pool cap max possible alpha (or just like you said - split it in portions). Only for limit enormous alphas not overall firepower.
And yes, normal build based on heatmanagement 1-1.2 wont be affected. Even more - mech with less firepower come back to play. Especially heavy with max firepower = 27-32.
So there no problem. Problem is for those players who don't want split 76dmg punch. And for those who don't understand that light mech with high alpha also got some cap in addition to heat an slow working heatsinks. New system make possible chainfires and block fire more easy than GH. In same time knock of extreme punch. Taking 70alpha in my medium or heavy mech make me lost all weapon, leg or hand in seconds. And we all know that after such damage mech useless.
New player who lucky bought junk mech got negative emotions and go off... ED can do live for them better,

[Cletus the Fighting Fetus]

When I read about the new energy draw system my stomach sank. I don't mind most game changes if they are improvements and don't require me to waste game time redoing stuff due to changes. The larger issue for me as a customer who has paid around $3000 since I began playing is that when a big change like this is instituted, I have to go through and re-evaluate 209 mechs across 2 accounts to refit them in order to play.

For instance, I have clan mechs that have 6 clan small pulse lasers on the arm. Under the new system, that means firing them at once as I do and can do currently w/out a heat penalty won't work. Hence, I have to go back through and check all my mechs to see which will need to be altered. I probably have a couple dozen builds in the mix that will be impacted by the change. I'm sure they won't all have to be but I won't know which ones will until I check. Those that I find which will be affected will need to be refit and tested again, taking away more of my game play time. If I were into building stuff I'd play Minecraft.

The reason I find this to be bothersome is because it turns what is supposed to be my recreation time into work. Instead of being able to play, I will have to spend several hours evaluating and refitting. A waste of my game time.

I find myself in a quandary. Is it really worth going through all that again or is the lesson here perhaps that less is more? If big changes like this are going to occur that are going to require me to use up game play time to evaluate and/or refit all my mechs, maybe I'm better off with fewer. If I sell off most of them, these changes will be more manageable for me as a player and I won't need to purchase anything any more. I currently have at least 2 of every chassis type and have owned at least 3 of them in order to unlock everything. I'm thinking that collecting mechs like this has probably been a waste of money since it just results in issues when you make large game play changes. If I do reduce down to just a few mechs, I would never need to earn another cbill or purchase anything ever again.
It seems like the message we are getting is that the smart player probably just has a light, medium, heavy and an assault for both IS and Clan and doesn't spend money to accumulate a bunch of mechs as it just results in lost play time when PGI decides to make changes.
At this point it seems like it would be in players' best interest to purchase just a few mechs and keep this on the cheap rather than spending a bunch of money building an arsenal of mechs like I have done as game changes will just result in you wasting your game play time refitting. It sucks the fun out of it.

I had a similar feeling I had when you sold me the first clan package with kit foxes which came with a certain set of specs when I paid cash for them and then a few weeks later you changed the specs. It felt like it would feel if you went to a restaurant and ordered a bacon cheeseburger deluxe, they brought it to you and let you have a couple of bites before they came back, took the toppings off and handed it back to you. No apology, no refund just 'tough luck buddy'.

I guess the message here for (especially new) players is that you are likely better off with just a handful of mechs. Don't spend a lot of cash trying to build a big collection as it will just be more hassle for you down the road when there are upgrades to the game. Plus you'll get the added advantage of saving lots of money.

I'll try it out after this goes live but if I find that I'm going to have to spend a bunch of time fixing mechs then I'm not going to be buying any more and will likely sell most that I have to keep this fun instead of work.

[Luscious Dan]

I don't mean to belittle your situation or feelings ($3000 spent? Jeebus!) there Chip Munk, but...



Digital products and services are hard to compare to a physical product like a cheeseburger. In a lot of ways software rights currently would be like leasing a car, you possess it for a while but the rules and expectations are different. Even then, software is still more malleable because you can change the feature set by future updates, much different to any physical object (bought or leased).

PGI is trying to make the game more playable and appealing, and I can't argue with that drive. Not every change will work out, but we need to go through the process to ensure the viability of the product (and your $3k investment).

It sucks when your new shiny toy gets nerfed (happens to literally every early adopter sooner or later) but the greater good argument prevails in the end.

Edited by Luscious Dan, 22 August 2016 - 12:56 PM.

[Tiantara]

- Well, sad to read it but as I can see, maybe some of you mech builds just got second life. With some mech like you describe you can play as well. Just change fire pattern. Like split all 12 small laser into 3 group by 4 and fire them grope after group within 1sec delay. Same with other builds.
Also I can easy name parameters of mech which could have some correction.
Like that:
- If mech have heat management lower than 1, maybe there a chance for some corrections.
- If mech have more than 2 gauss, here is possibility to limit gauss to exact 2 (or have 3 with some limitation, that nuance still theme of talk on test-sub forum and there no ready answer what to do). Anyway they can become invalid...
- If mech have firepower over 76-89 points. Maybe it need some change as well.

All mech which have no such parameters in build can be better than they now or same.
All mech with heat management above 1 (1.2-1.6) stay unaffected.
All mech with full power = 54-59 can easy split damage in pattern 1\2alpha+1\2alpha.

I hope everything with our collection will be fine (wow it soooo big...)

Edited by Tiantara, 22 August 2016 - 01:22 PM.

[Cletus the Fighting Fetus]

So, since none of my builds have less than a 1.2 heat currently, then I'm unaffected even though firing 6 clan small pulse lasers takes me over the 30 energy draw? For instance, I have an executioner w/a 1.43 heat, 6 clan small pulse lasers and and LRM 20. If I understand correctly, using the one arm w/the 6 clan spls would cause a heat penalty. That does not occur currently. I am also using the cooldown module so I can fire it fairly frequently.

What am I misunderstanding?

[Cletus the Fighting Fetus]

Luscious Dan,
The Kit Fox was a long time ago and I've played for a long time since. It is just one example. Sorry if that was confusing. Let me be more clear. The epiphany I had is that I have to waste valuable game time having to go through them all after significant game changes. I don't think PGI can or should do anything different. I think players should just be aware that the more mechs they accumulate, the more hassle they will have when there are significant changes. I'm sorry that bringing up the Kit Fox caused so much confusion. My bad.

I agree that they should use the money they get to improve the game, pay salaries, expenses, etc. I've just come to the realization that the more you buy in this game, the more resulting hassle when things change. I'm just bummed that it took me this long to realize that more mechs just equals more hassle and expense, not a better experience. Less truly is better. Simply more manageable when change occurs. I'm hoping that by sharing my lesson I might save some other players some time, money and hassle. Since paying players are customers, I'm sure that as a business PGI wants them to feel satisfied with their experience. Customers like saving time and money. Most dislike hassle.

Just to be clear, the fault here is mine. I was the one that was spending the money to buy the mechs to build an arsenal and just now am realizing that was a mistake. I'm the one that continued purchasing packages knowing that PGI could change anything at any time which I learned and accepted as a result of purchasing the Kit Fox.

The point I'm getting at here is that having just a few mechs = less hassle, less cost, more game play fun time. That's all.

I apologize for any confusion in my previous post. Perhaps buying and keeping up to date a whole suite of software like MS Office when you only really need Word would be a better example.

[JaegerDjinn]

Tiantara, on 21 August 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

- All weapon become slower. It's a test. If something become too slow - it can be brought back. Or have less % of jamming instead. Test, calculate, write all you see. maybe some of that helps to make system better and battles longer.

It is not about the how fast it fires,but the ability too fire multiple rounds consecutively. With the new system on the test server it is almost impossible too get the ultras too work even with how i have my settings. Presently you are lucky too get a double but it still fires them at a rate it is almost impossible too tell if it was a double or the guns just fired twice and with the energy system tying it up dont see how they will make them work properly again. Ten point alpha is really something too be careful of, not but i have had alot turn from it. lol

[MovinTarget]

I am seeing people ask, "does this mean my <insert build here> is now useless?" Or declare "My <insert mech here> is now unusable based on what i have read!"

Please get in the pts and find out for yourself... yes, somethings have changed, but others have not. And remember the goal is to nerf *all* high dmg alphas so the goal is for everyone to get dropped back a notch, giving players a longer experience per-game. Because as much as i love oneshotting whales from behind, we all know this isn't how its supposed to go down and its no fun for players trying learn the ropes to get farmed so easily.

If you play WoW, consider this a move away from burst and towards dps...

[Gas Guzzler]

HammerMaster, on 22 August 2016 - 04:55 AM, said:

The only people I see crying are the min/maxers. For me. I almost exclusively run TT style mix builds. My LRM boats ALWAYS have back up weapons. My brawl mechs have a split mix. Old system didn't penalize me. New system WON'T PENALIZE me. (Except for gauss charge. I always hated it. It penalized me even though I wasn't an exploiter) I fail to see the problem.

Being a min-maxer gives you an interesting perspective on balance. It also means you care about balance much more than someone who runs whatever they want not caring if it puts them at a disadvantage.

[Gas Guzzler]

MovinTarget, on 22 August 2016 - 03:40 PM, said:

its no fun for players trying learn the ropes to get farmed so easily.

I don't really understand this argument. Plenty of "New Players" have dived in to games like Call of Duty, Halo, Overwatch, etc, all games that have much lower TTK. And frankly, a player "learning the ropes" is going to have trouble staying alive, alpha strikes or not.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 22 August 2016 - 04:05 PM.