337 replies to this topic

[Aleksandr Sergeyevich Kerensky]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 August 2016 - 03:47 PM, said:

Being a min-maxer gives you an interesting perspective on balance. It also means you care about balance much more than someone who runs whatever they want not caring if it puts them at a disadvantage.

Unless by min-maxer, you mean people who love the 3025 charger... You know... Putting weapons with the most minimum of ranges (small laser) and putting it in an assault mech and tried to make it go its max speed!

These people dont care about balance... They want to ram an enemy mech in hopes that the enemy fails its piloting roll and becomes unballanced!

(Ok sorry... Bad joke... I'll go face a corner for an hour and reflect on the sins of my ways!)

[Willie with the Wet Fingers]

Free players seems to be the most satisfied players. Those who pay seem less satisfied. Sounds like that's the real lesson here.

[jarien13]

Gas Guzzler, on 22 August 2016 - 03:53 PM, said:

I don't really understand this argument. Plenty of "New Players" have dived in to games like Call of Duty, Halo, Overwatch, etc, all games that have much lower TTK. And frankly, a player "learning the ropes" is going to have trouble staying alive, alpha strikes or not.

Those games have respawns to get you back into the action in the same match when you die, rather than spectate til match end or leave to wait to find a new match, with a new mech required (and thus new learning curve) until the other is freed upon match end. Low TTK in this game translates into more time waiting to find a match instead of playing the game.

Those games are also fast paced twitch-type shooters without the quirky movement and aiming mechanics that mechs have, which is a big part of the learning curve. Nevermind the different movement characteristics between the four main weight classes, sometimes you get drastically different archetypes and behavior within the same chassis variants, let alone exact matching tonnage or in class.

And yes, new players are going to die regardless. That doesn't mean things can't be done to let them (and everyone else) live for just a little longer in match and spend less time staring at the drop pending screen.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Chip Munk - Rodent Avenger, on 22 August 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

When I read about the new energy draw system my stomach sank. I don't mind most game changes if they are improvements and don't require me to waste game time redoing stuff due to changes. The larger issue for me as a customer who has paid around $3000 since I began playing is that when a big change like this is instituted, I have to go through and re-evaluate 209 mechs across 2 accounts to refit them in order to play.

For instance, I have clan mechs that have 6 clan small pulse lasers on the arm. Under the new system, that means firing them at once as I do and can do currently w/out a heat penalty won't work. Hence, I have to go back through and check all my mechs to see which will need to be altered. I probably have a couple dozen builds in the mix that will be impacted by the change. I'm sure they won't all have to be but I won't know which ones will until I check. Those that I find which will be affected will need to be refit and tested again, taking away more of my game play time. If I were into building stuff I'd play Minecraft.

The reason I find this to be bothersome is because it turns what is supposed to be my recreation time into work. Instead of being able to play, I will have to spend several hours evaluating and refitting. A waste of my game time.

I find myself in a quandary. Is it really worth going through all that again or is the lesson here perhaps that less is more? If big changes like this are going to occur that are going to require me to use up game play time to evaluate and/or refit all my mechs, maybe I'm better off with fewer. If I sell off most of them, these changes will be more manageable for me as a player and I won't need to purchase anything any more. I currently have at least 2 of every chassis type and have owned at least 3 of them in order to unlock everything. I'm thinking that collecting mechs like this has probably been a waste of money since it just results in issues when you make large game play changes. If I do reduce down to just a few mechs, I would never need to earn another cbill or purchase anything ever again.
It seems like the message we are getting is that the smart player probably just has a light, medium, heavy and an assault for both IS and Clan and doesn't spend money to accumulate a bunch of mechs as it just results in lost play time when PGI decides to make changes.
At this point it seems like it would be in players' best interest to purchase just a few mechs and keep this on the cheap rather than spending a bunch of money building an arsenal of mechs like I have done as game changes will just result in you wasting your game play time refitting. It sucks the fun out of it.

I had a similar feeling I had when you sold me the first clan package with kit foxes which came with a certain set of specs when I paid cash for them and then a few weeks later you changed the specs. It felt like it would feel if you went to a restaurant and ordered a bacon cheeseburger deluxe, they brought it to you and let you have a couple of bites before they came back, took the toppings off and handed it back to you. No apology, no refund just 'tough luck buddy'.

I guess the message here for (especially new) players is that you are likely better off with just a handful of mechs. Don't spend a lot of cash trying to build a big collection as it will just be more hassle for you down the road when there are upgrades to the game. Plus you'll get the added advantage of saving lots of money.

I'll try it out after this goes live but if I find that I'm going to have to spend a bunch of time fixing mechs then I'm not going to be buying any more and will likely sell most that I have to keep this fun instead of work.

While ED will have greater punishments for alphaing (after the values are adjusted), it's much more forgiving for fast chain-fires, since instead of you getting full ghost heat if you fire within 0.5 seconds after you hit the limit, every fraction of a second you wait between shots will lower the extra heat you get, giving it a more linear and predictable penalty.

The point of the system is to present alpha strikes as an important tactical choice, as opposed to it being the only way some mechs fire their weapons. Also bare in mind that the draw values will see adjustment for every weapon, so lighter lasers will likely get less draw to counter their short range.

[Cletus the Fighting Fetus]

Gentleman Reaper, on 22 August 2016 - 05:30 PM, said:

While ED will have greater punishments for alphaing (after the values are adjusted), it's much more forgiving for fast chain-fires, since instead of you getting full ghost heat if you fire within 0.5 seconds after you hit the limit, every fraction of a second you wait between shots will lower the extra heat you get, giving it a more linear and predictable penalty.

The point of the system is to present alpha strikes as an important tactical choice, as opposed to it being the only way some mechs fire their weapons. Also bare in mind that the draw values will see adjustment for every weapon, so lighter lasers will likely get less draw to counter their short range.

Sounds fantastic! Look forward to seeing the changes. I've already contacted billing to see what I can do to cancel my pre-orders of the Night Gyr, Linebacker and Marauder IIC packages so I don't have a bunch more mechs to contend with when the change occurs. I'm looking forward to the new 'favorites' function coming in this patch. It will help me determine which ones to sell off from my current inventory. I should be able to knock it down from the current 161 mecs to about 16 which will be much more manageable when changes occur. It will also leave me a plethora of cbills, weapons, cockpit items, etc so I shouldn't ever have to spend another dime. I guess the 2+ years of premium time I have banked is kind of a waste though since I won't need anything.

So, change all you like. I'm getting ready for it. Thank you for helping me understand that less truly is more and giving me a 'heads up' so that I can prepare.

Hopefully this will lessen the hassle enough when the change comes through so that I can continue to enjoy the game and not dread it because of the time I would have to spend fixing mechs.

Thanks again!

[Gentleman Reaper]

Chip Munk - Rodent Avenger, on 22 August 2016 - 05:56 PM, said:

Sounds fantastic! Look forward to seeing the changes. I've already contacted billing to see what I can do to cancel my pre-orders of the Night Gyr, Linebacker and Marauder IIC packages so I don't have a bunch more mechs to contend with when the change occurs. I'm looking forward to the new 'favorites' function coming in this patch. It will help me determine which ones to sell off from my current inventory. I should be able to knock it down from the current 161 mecs to about 16 which will be much more manageable when changes occur. It will also leave me a plethora of cbills, weapons, cockpit items, etc so I shouldn't ever have to spend another dime. I guess the 2+ years of premium time I have banked is kind of a waste though since I won't need anything.

So, change all you like. I'm getting ready for it. Thank you for helping me understand that less truly is more and giving me a 'heads up' so that I can prepare.

Hopefully this will lessen the hassle enough when the change comes through so that I can continue to enjoy the game and not dread it because of the time I would have to spend fixing mechs.

Thanks again!

Can you please spare me the sarcasm? Having greater punishments to alphaing will not really change much, aside from making the one-button build children cry because they think that alphas are the only way to fire your weapons. Pretty much all my mechs are completely unchanged, maybe even more powerful, since they all have mixed weapons set for firing in different groups. Maybe you should try it?

[Space Monster]

Chip Munk - Rodent Avenger, on 22 August 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

...when a big change like this is instituted, I have to go through and re-evaluate 209 mechs across 2 accounts to refit them in order to play.

This makes it sound as if you have to perform what you perceive as a huge chore all at one - but why?

I have 100+ mechs, and I like all of them - but I only use about 4 or 5 regularly. The others I dip into every now and again, when I'm in the mood for them.

Surely you would reassess the builds for the ones you play most, and just do the others on the day you happen to feel like playing them, meaning that after the initial time spent on your commonly-used favourites, you would only have to do it again very, very occasionally, and for a shorter period (because you do it one or two at a time, say, rather then the 'favourite/most-commonly used' group).

If the occasional bit of build housekeeping is the price of new features being added which make the gameplay more interesting.. how that makes your heart sink, or makes you think you suddenly have to sell 100+ mechs, I really don't relate to at all. (And yeah, I'm saying that as a full-time worker with little spare time in the evenings who'd rather be in matches than tweaking builds forever.)

Edited by space monster, 22 August 2016 - 07:28 PM.

[Cletus the Fighting Fetus]

space monster, on 22 August 2016 - 07:27 PM, said:

This makes it sound as if you have to perform what you perceive as a huge chore all at one - but why?

I have 100+ mechs, and I like all of them - but I only use about 4 or 5 regularly. The others I dip into every now and again, when I'm in the mood for them.

Surely you would reassess the builds for the ones you play most, and just do the others on the day you happen to feel like playing them, meaning that after the initial time spent on your commonly-used favourites, you would only have to do it again very, very occasionally, and for a shorter period (because you do it one or two at a time, say, rather then the 'favourite/most-commonly used' group).

If the occasional bit of build housekeeping is the price of new features being added which make the gameplay more interesting.. how that makes your heart sink, or makes you think you suddenly have to sell 100+ mechs, I really don't relate to at all. (And yeah, I'm saying that as a full-time worker with little spare time in the evenings who'd rather be in matches than tweaking builds forever.)

I must not be communicating well. One post thought I was being sarcastic. I'm just glad I finally understand that this game is like many things in life, less is more. I've contributed enough already and like you indicated, you only really play a few anyway which reinforces my point. 100+ mechs is rather pointless and that it was really a waste of your cash since you only really play your favorites anyway.

Based on the feedback I'm getting from these postings. I'm done posting. I get it...........you all don't want my feedback or my money in the game. Got it. So I'll just keep my feedback and my money and enjoy the game for free like so many other player do.

[Space Monster]

Chip Munk - Rodent Avenger, on 22 August 2016 - 07:34 PM, said:

I'm done posting. I get it...........you all don't want my feedback or my money in the game. Got it. So I'll just keep my feedback and my money and enjoy the game for free like so many other player do.

Whoa! Not sure how you got that from what I was saying... all I was trying to say is that I am a player in a similar position, but coming at the issue from a different angle.

I don't think having 100+ is pointless at all, since I enjoy them all at different times, and I think the build changes we'll have to make can be done so incrementally that they aren't an issue (for the trade off of a new, interesting gameplay mechanic).

Anyway, GLHF with however you decide to approach it, and apologies if I sounded like I was trying to be argumentative.

(oh and in case it's relevant, I hadn't read other responses to your post before I wrote mine, so don't know what else other people were saying.)

[MovinTarget]

jarien13, on 22 August 2016 - 05:25 PM, said:

Those games have respawns to get you back into the action in the same match when you die, rather than spectate til match end or leave to wait to find a new match, with a new mech required (and thus new learning curve) until the other is freed upon match end. Low TTK in this game translates into more time waiting to find a match instead of playing the game.

Those games are also fast paced twitch-type shooters without the quirky movement and aiming mechanics that mechs have, which is a big part of the learning curve. Nevermind the different movement characteristics between the four main weight classes, sometimes you get drastically different archetypes and behavior within the same chassis variants, let alone exact matching tonnage or in class.

And yes, new players are going to die regardless. That doesn't mean things can't be done to let them (and everyone else) live for just a little longer in match and spend less time staring at the drop pending screen.

On top of that, if I'm not mistaken, the player pools for other games are VAST so you have the ability to not keep coming across the same pilots repeatedly.

Oh and the wait times are probably less...

[invernomuto]

Chip Munk - Rodent Avenger, on 22 August 2016 - 12:09 PM, said:

The reason I find this to be bothersome is because it turns what is supposed to be my recreation time into work. Instead of being able to play, I will have to spend several hours evaluating and refitting. A waste of my game time.

Please consider that:
1 - if gameplay is stagnant, the game dies.
2 - part of the fun of this game is experimenting with new builds.

IMVHO Energy Draw *could be* a very welcome addition to MWO. I did not understand the purpose of the "old" Ghost Heat: It added heat penalities if you used the same weapons in a build BUT it allowed some weapon mixes that permitted big alpha strikes. The new system seems at least to have a specific goal (having alpha strikes as high reward / high risk option).
As with every system, it's not perfect and can be adjusted, but - IMHO - it's better than Ghost Heat 1.0.
I agree that it can be a nuisance for people like you that have a lot of mechs and are ok with gameplay, but please see point 1). Static gameplay = death of the game, so I welcome this change and the fact that they're trying to introduce some new mechanics (new skill tree and info warfare will probabily be the next).
My 2 cents.

[Luscious Dan]

Chip Munk - Rodent Avenger, on 22 August 2016 - 02:36 PM, said:

Luscious Dan,
The Kit Fox was a long time ago and I've played for a long time since. It is just one example. Sorry if that was confusing. Let me be more clear. The epiphany I had is that I have to waste valuable game time having to go through them all after significant game changes. I don't think PGI can or should do anything different. I think players should just be aware that the more mechs they accumulate, the more hassle they will have when there are significant changes. I'm sorry that bringing up the Kit Fox caused so much confusion. My bad.

I've got a stable of mechs maybe half the size, and I only look into the older mechs when I go to drive them again. I don't change the builds every time there's a balance update or quirk pass, you're right it's just too much hassle

[tokumboh]

My only problem with energy draw is that it seems to penalise ballistics . Besides having a heavier weight and having ammo now you have the same heat draw as per point of damage. We already have the laser vomit as the main meta unless you have a kodiak 3, it is nice to have a level of variety. It is interesting that the mechanic for the gauss rifle is changed but it is supposed to be a low energy weapon and whilst I would be happy with a recharge time I think it should be kept cool.

I am not sure that the issue of high alphas is that great people boat to make the game mechanic easier as much as alpha strike. In fast paced battles it is hard to have a variety of weapons and be able to deploy them effectively, so having 3 PPC or whatever tend to work and makes life easier.

I think that we need a better system of heat and yes this one is simple but I feel there needs to be some differentiation as it is energy weapons rule rule the roost. I still like the variety and hope that this enhances it rather than detracts.

[Spleenslitta]

Does anyone know when the next PTS session for Energy Draw will happen?

[MovinTarget]

Its still up, was playing a bit during the downtime...

[GalahadVGL13]

Well, I think it's time to dust off the mini's and dice and take the money I've been putting here into finding some Geo-Hex terrain.
I'll leave the rants for others, but I am disappointed and have decided to play battletech, rather than this weird BT skinned...thing.
It was fun for a while.
Maybe see y'all in a few months or a year.
Ciao Bella, folks.

[invernomuto]

Wasn't another build for the PST announced yesterday? Is it already up in the PST?

[Deathlike]

New version up in 15+ minutes from now:
http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__5358246