337 replies to this topic

[Gas Guzzler]

Ex Atlas Overlord, on 18 August 2016 - 02:14 PM, said:

I only skimmed (will read in depth later) but this appears to be EXACTLY what the players have been asking for...

A pool of energy with weapons using different amounts based on their type. Gauss charge dropped. Global weapon cooldowns.

For now I say: Bravo PGI.

No you misread it. All direct fire weapons except for c ERPPCs do 1 energy per damage, ER PPCs take 13.5 energy, and SRMs, LRMs, and LB do .75 energy per damage.

Why are lasers equal to PPCs/Gauss/ACs?

And yeah, exactly what SOME players asked for.

Edited by Gas Guzzler, 18 August 2016 - 02:19 PM.

[Mechsniper]

I feel you are still trying to fix a problem that exists because you are allowing too much freedom to stick large weapons where only small ones were supposed to go on a mech. No one should be replacing small lasers with erppcs, but there are instances you can in the current system. if MG slots did not allow you to put in a gauss the balance would have been attained long ago. The gauss cat was the first mech in game that showed you your error. It has yet to be addressed, and this new mechanic will only circle around the problem instead of fixing it, just as ghost heat did.

[Signal27]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 August 2016 - 02:19 PM, said:

Why are lasers equal to PPCs/Gauss/ACs?

Probably because they're hitscan weapons. But I'm certain if you complain long and loud enough you can convince the devs to get lasers' "energy draw" value reduced.

[Thunder Child]

Well, I'm cautiously optimistic. Will have to thrash the PTS to see how it plays, but hopefully PGI won't pull the plug on it like InfoWar just because a few Vocals get up in arms about having to change Meta.

[Signal27]

Thunder Child, on 18 August 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Well, I'm cautiously optimistic. Will have to thrash the PTS to see how it plays, but hopefully PGI won't pull the plug on it like InfoWar just because a few Vocals get up in arms about having to change Meta.

I'm hoping the nature of the complaints will be to change and fine-tune certain aspects of Energy Draw, rather than just demanding they tear the whole damn thing out (like they did InfoWar) and go back to Ghost Heat.

[Gas Guzzler]

Signal27, on 18 August 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

Probably because they're hitscan weapons. But I'm certain if you complain long and loud enough you can convince the devs to get lasers' "energy draw" value reduced.

They are hitscan DoT weapons. They have always required more damage to compete with PPFLD alphas. 30 PPFLD >>> 30 lasers to put it simply.

Signal27, on 18 August 2016 - 02:24 PM, said:

I'm hoping the nature of the complaints will be to change and fine-tune certain aspects of Energy Draw, rather than just demanding they tear the whole damn thing out (like they did InfoWar) and go back to Ghost Heat.

Initial impression for me is tear the whole thing down.

I want to play MechWarrior not watch the bar until it reaches zero and fire again.

But.. I'll try it.

[Padre Balistique]

All I'm seeing here is the potential for a stealth nerf against the two weapon systems that IS relies on, and that's ballistics and Large Pulse Laser.

No point in mounting ballistics now since, for some absurd reason, they draw the same amount of power as energy weapon alternatives because that's how guns work, for magnitudes more weight, and the risk of ammo explosions.

[process]

My initial impression is that it's going to be annoying to keep an eye on two bars before I shoot. However, there are a lot of interesting changes, and I guess if it's well tuned enough the energy bar won't really be an issue -- just take the heat penalty and cool down like you would currently.

It's effectively making Gauss and ACs hot weapons. I suppose in a way it's more generous than a strict 30 point heat scale, since exceeding the energy draw only penalizes you, and not necessarily a full shutdown.

I'm cautiously optimistic. Either way, goodbye spooky heat.

Edited by process, 18 August 2016 - 02:34 PM.

[Signal27]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 August 2016 - 02:25 PM, said:

They are hitscan DoT weapons. They have always required more damage to compete with PPFLD alphas. 30 PPFLD >>> 30 lasers to put it simply.

I know. Hence the suggestion to talk about reducing laser energy draw. I'm probably going to do that, but I'll test it out first.

Quote

Initial impression for me is tear the whole thing down.

I want to play MechWarrior not watch the bar until it reaches zero and fire again.

But.. I'll try it.

Uh... that's what we already do with the heat system as-is.

[process]

Padre Balistique, on 18 August 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

No point in mounting ballistics now since, for some absurd reason, they draw the same amount of power as energy weapon alternatives because that's how guns work, for magnitudes more weight, and the risk of ammo explosions.

It's all those gears and pulleys transporting ammo from your legs to your arms.

[Padre Balistique]

process, on 18 August 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

It's all those gears and pulleys transporting ammo from your legs to your arms.

If we're going with that logic, might as well make walking consume 5 energy per step.

[Signal27]

Padre Balistique, on 18 August 2016 - 02:34 PM, said:

If we're going with that logic, might as well make walking consume 5 energy per step.

Nah. Walking is already partially powered by the unicorn horn installed in the crotch of each mech. The pegasus wings also inject mana to recycle kinetic energy from each step.

[Gannycus]

"Does the inclusion of Energy Draw help to increase TTK?"

What's TTK?

[Signal27]

Gannycus, on 18 August 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

"Does the inclusion of Energy Draw help to increase TTK?"

What's TTK?

"Time To Kill" - The amount of time it generally takes to kill a mech. Right now the chief complaint is that it's too low, and thus makes the game feel like Call of Duty where only two or three bullets from a fully automatic firearm will kill an opponent.

[Padre Balistique]

Gannycus, on 18 August 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

"Does the inclusion of Energy Draw help to increase TTK?"

What's TTK?

Time to Kill

[Gas Guzzler]

Signal27, on 18 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

Uh... that's what we already do with the heat system as-is.

Right so now there are two bars to watch. #ThinkingMansShooter

[1453 R]

Cathy, on 18 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

It actually looks like its going to have more of an effect than I initially thought it would, I am wondering though, how useful Uac's double click option will be though

A double-tapping UAC is still pretty much two autocannons for the weight/crits of one. Yeah, piling a dozen Quacks on Whales or Bears is pretty much dead, but smaller 'Mechs that can't sling forty tons of ballistigun still derive benefit from Ultras doubling their shot output from one gun. Especially in a system like this where you might be able to poke your nose out from behind a rock for three-quarters of a second without instantaneously eating two hundred damage from one assault 'Mech.

Anyways. Will not be able to test until I get home from work (in roughly four hours...), but overall the changes look interesting. Do not agree with all 'Mechs universally having the same default energy pool/recharge rate, but I can see why that would be implemented for these initial tests. Final XML values will need adjusting, a'course - they always do - but from perusing the test notes it looks like this might just work out to a more interesting game.

Going to miss gauss charge, though. Was nice having it not behave like the He-Man version of a regular autocannon for a while and be its own unique gun with its own unique mechanic instead. Ah well. Too many people out there who just cannot deal with non-Call of Duty trigger mechanics. Perhaps the charge-up mechanic can come back sometime later in the far-flung future for FutureTech stuff like Bombast lasers or PPC Capacitors and such.

Universal weapon cooldown nerfs are going to sting for a lot of folks, but hopefully at this point we'll have fewer fools claiming that TTK is so brutally short. Never going to have none of them, but c'mon - a seven-second Gauss cooldown is going to be agony, and for a while here all of our stuff is going to feel laggy as hell. The "a 'Mech should be able to survive anything and everything, take thousands of damage and still soldier on with its one last medium laser, fighting like a champ!" crowd needs to meet the rest of us in the middle somewhere.

But yes. Will get to testing and feedback when I'm not posting between calls at work. Until then, will watch Gas continue claiming that being able to dump a 90-point laser strike into someone's CT every two and a half seconds without any sort of control is perfectly balanced. Should be amusing.

[Signal27]

Gas Guzzler, on 18 August 2016 - 02:44 PM, said:

Right so now there are two bars to watch. #ThinkingMansShooter

I know it sucks but in a roundabout way this also increases the TTK as people juggle their yellow and red bars.

I'm personally just going to favor weapons that approach the 30 alpha limit when fired altogether, but have longer cooldown times than 1.5 seconds so I don't even have to look at the yellow bar. Not the most efficient way to play, I know. But easier on the brain amidst a firefight.

[Matthew Ace]

Most of it looks interesting and can't wait to test it out. But I am concerned that the 2 Gauss limit will prevent introducing canon builds or limit builds with 3 or even 4 Gauss Rifles (I have to say I understand the reasoning behind this stance though).

I hope further iterations of the Energy Draw would make some provisions further down the road for such cases. Here's an ideas what provisions can be considered:

Gauss mountable cap removed, but Gauss Rifles cannot be fired if there is insufficient energy (unlike other weapons, which can still be fired at cost of heat penalty). The longer cooldown time globally will grant some use for having more than 2 Gauss Rifles (stagger fire), while it prevents the energy draw mechanism from not limiting Gausses.

[Sky Hawk]

Soo... when I use my LRM-Boats, I can fire the bigger LRMs launchers just about... twice a week... But.. I can fire 4 x LRM10 or.. better.. 8 x LRM5 without any heat penalty... Hmm.. and I can even strip down all my DHS's in the same time too.. for some extra Ammo... That means.. what... about... 20-25 tonnes of LRM's Ammo... ???.. I surely misread something... ... Night!