337 replies to this topic

[ultraFloon]

But they removed the charge mechanic so that is a big plus,

YES SURE!

Edited by ultraFloon, 18 August 2016 - 06:46 PM.

[KingGladiator]

So how will this affect brawlers? Mechs that have to be constantly shooting at all times because they are short/medium range.

Take Splatlas's for instance. 3 SRM 6's and an AC20 or so. Fire all the SRMs and they are out of energy? They have to wait around to fire the AC20, then wait more to fire SRMs?

Vs the dual gauss mech in the back who will just take potshots with the same capacitor amount.

Or light mechs like locusts, firestarters, cheetahs who rely on speed and rapid firepower? Are they going to spend half their time waiting for energy recharge now?

[Tiantara]

KingGladiator, on 18 August 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

So how will this affect brawlers? Mechs that have to be constantly shooting at all times because they are short/medium range.

- A little. More those who use really high alphas which normally blows their engine off after 1 shot. Now thay have chance to be alive, but forced to wait a little or make pause between 2-3 fire groups.

KingGladiator, on 18 August 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

Take Splatlas's for instance. 3 SRM 6's and an AC20 or so. Fire all the SRMs and they are out of energy? They have to wait around to fire the AC20, then wait more to fire SRMs?

- Yes... wait 1 second to take energy back, or get heat... Anyway - i started to love my Atlas again, and see more variations of build based on playstyle not heat restriction or damage. You still can have up to 60dmg alpha if you split it into 2 half with 1 second pause between. That make piloting skill back in use with shielding and corner hiding.

KingGladiator, on 18 August 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

Vs the dual gauss mech in the back who will just take potshots with the same capacitor amount.

- Dual gauss more than enough. Seems AC2 looks more useful now.

KingGladiator, on 18 August 2016 - 07:04 PM, said:

Or light mechs like locusts, firestarters, cheetahs who rely on speed and rapid firepower? Are they going to spend half their time waiting for energy recharge now?

- I'm just testing it... But i don't really into light. Still - most of lights have cap to 30-35 alpha. Much of them - below 25 point of alpha-damage. So they have no changes really.
No wonder if in future lowest energy would be 30 and highest - about 45.

Edited by Tiantara, 18 August 2016 - 07:54 PM.

[exiledangel]

this power draw doesn't affect many light mechs since most care 6 or less mediums any way lol

[Nightbird]

All brawler builds are dead (except for light brawlers), there are only going to be mid range snipers, mid-long range snipers, long range snipers, and very long range snipers lol...

[xengk]

Cathy, on 18 August 2016 - 01:55 PM, said:

It actually looks like its going to have more of an effect than I initially thought it would, I am wondering though, how useful Uac's double click option will be though

Signal27, on 18 August 2016 - 01:58 PM, said:

That's a damn good point. I'm now actively discouraged from using Ultra Autocannons now that I have to factor in that rapid-firing them gives me a pretty good chance to jam ON TOP of draining the limited energy pool I have now. I think I'd only use them on lighter mechs where I can only fit one or two of them on so rapid firing them all would take up the energy pool but not go over.

I wonders about this point too.
I have Summoner and Hellbringer build around an UAC20 with supporting weapons, double tapping the UAC20 gonna be toasty, unless I wait 1 second between taps.

[Akillius]

"In addition to Energy Draw this PTS features a few balance adjustments, including a global increase to Weapon Cooldown periods for all weaponry (excluding Machine Guns and Flamers), a reduction to the efficacy of Cooldown Modules," yada yada yada...
Sounds like slow matches in Dreadnought, funny when those devs started nerfing so all sizes put out same firepower during beta testing about 2 months back, the time to find matches there tripled... Hope PGI knows what it's doing (besides pandering to the whiners).

Edited by Max Rickson, 18 August 2016 - 07:13 PM.

[Idealsuspect]

ironnightbird, on 18 August 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

All brawler builds are dead (except for light brawlers), there are only going to be mid range snipers, mid-long range snipers, long range snipers, and very long range snipers lol...

"Best esport game in tha world" syndrom

Something good if everybody snipe camp, cheat UAVs will be useless. Blinds people you will became blind again ....

[exiledangel]

I am laughing right now en atlas engine weights just as much or more then a locust but yet the locust as same power draw as a mech with a engine that is weight is more then that mech lol

[Pihoqahiak]

Hobbles v, on 18 August 2016 - 04:33 PM, said:

This is a massive waste of development time, the actual mech combat in this game is the games biggest strength.

Why not instead work on actual CONTENT, things that make the game more interesting, instead of having the whole community re-learn how to play the game on the same old maps and same old non-immersive modes.

Even if this system works out well (only testing will tell) this is still a massive waste of development time.

An aspect of this use of development time that bothers me is the fact that if they can code this Energy Draw system into the game, and the UI elements to support it, how can they NOT have been able to code selectable ammo for LB-X weapons, or actual Engine, Sensor, and Actuator critical hits with effects?

[KingGladiator]

xengk, on 18 August 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

I wonders about this point too.
I have Summoner and Hellbringer build around an UAC20 with supporting weapons, double tapping the UAC20 gonna be toasty, unless I wait 1 second between taps.

I was thinking similarly.

I have a Stormcrow with 3 medium lasers and a uac20.

So if I'm understanding it right. Firing my ac20 uses 20 energy. Double tapping gives me 40 energy. Firing my 3 mediums puts me at 55 energy.

Nearly double the energy so that will only make my exposure time nearly 3 times as long to wait for energy charge on an already hot build.

[jweltsch]

ironnightbird, on 18 August 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

All brawler builds are dead (except for light brawlers), there are only going to be mid range snipers, mid-long range snipers, long range snipers, and very long range snipers lol...

Yup. With no accounting for range of the weapon there is ZERO reason to take short ranged weapons. My suggestion: make a short/mid/long range weapon pool with different mods Short: 0-300m .5, mid 300-550 .75, long 550+ 1.0.


Also the nerf to ac/5 is rediculous, please rethink it, the ac/10 is superior in most situations now.

And can clans get a ppc without the useless splash damage if you are going to energy tax it? I can count the number of times that splash helped on one han.... I mean one FINGER and it was because I shot an xl king crab ct and didnt realize he was xl and blew a st with it.

Further acs with the same draw as ppcs is just.... wrong, it takes NONE of the acs drawbacks into account and doesnt really hamper the ppcs.

[Tiantara]

ironnightbird, on 18 August 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

All brawler builds are dead (except for light brawlers), there are only going to be mid range snipers, mid-long range snipers, long range snipers, and very long range snipers lol...

- Nope... With long cool-down of sniper mech you can now go closer and start brawling on mid-short range.

[jweltsch]

Wintersdark, on 18 August 2016 - 03:29 PM, said:

well, not really. Exceeding the bar by a bit generates a trivially small amount of heat. 4 ppc's or 2ppc/ac20 generate 5 points of Ghost Heat under this system.

Unlike ghost heat, then, firing again a bit early isn't severely punished.

This system is both clearly defined and more forgiving than ghost heat.

Not really. Fire ANY weapon in conjunction with your dual ac/20 and you are strictly worse off in the new system then with ghost heat. And I dont think I have seen much of anybody complain about dual ac/20 in a long long time (last time that it was and issue was when I was in a light and got nailed by the dual ac/20.... but that was ENTIRELY my fault and i should have instadied from that). The problem with the system is it overpenalizes what wasnt the larger issue (short ranged weapons) and over incentives long ranged weapons. Hence they need to make changes to account for weapon range.

[jweltsch]

Tiantara, on 18 August 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

- Nope... With long cool-down of sniper mech you can now go closer and start brawling on mid-short range.

um.... what?

current cds:
ac/20 cd: 4.0
ll/lpl: cd 3.25
srm6 cd 4.0
ppc: 4.0

the only weapon that is really balance for its range based on cd alone was the goosewaffle, in most cases range is balanced by HEAT, something this system DIRECTLY contradicts. If range is not taken into consideration for energy draw, we will see much more gauss/ppc and much less srm and ac/20

[Dakkss]

Sounds good in my opinion.

I just know something's gonna bollocks it up though.
Somebody's going to complain about their precious laser meta and then lasers will get buffed, or there's going to be some weapon that can abuse the system somewhere and it won't get addressed because then "STOP NERFING THE OP BUILDS I USE PGI"

Edited by Dakkss, 18 August 2016 - 08:12 PM.

[Tiantara]

- Anyway... mechanic looks interesting. I'm more worried about adjustments in future, when some build shows too "OP" to use it freely. If mech with heat-management about 1.4-1.6 become unplayable - there could be a problem.

[KingGladiator]

I'm still scratching my head wondering how a AC 20 uses more electricity than 2 large lasers.

The ammo feeds must have been built by really inefficient union workers....

[Tiantara]

KingGladiator, on 18 August 2016 - 08:24 PM, said:

I'm still scratching my head wondering how a AC 20 uses more electricity than 2 large lasers.

The ammo feeds must have been built by really inefficient union workers....

- Hahaha, nice joke. Yeah, ballistic use must be split in a half, at least. With cooldown they have plenty of penalty.

[Wintersdark]

xengk, on 18 August 2016 - 07:12 PM, said:

I wonders about this point too.
I have Summoner and Hellbringer build around an UAC20 with supporting weapons, double tapping the UAC20 gonna be toasty, unless I wait 1 second between taps.

No, it's not. Have you tried it? Fire a uac20, get 20 energy draw. Double tap happens at 0.5seconds, you're at 10 energy, that takes you to 30. No extra heat.

But here's where you folks need to test this stuff.

Exceed that. Go to 40. It's 5 extra heat.

I ran a 4PPC 3ML standard engined awesome tonight. I ONLY group fired the PPC's - all four at once. It was very manageable.

That would have been death under ghost heat, yet here I could group fire all 4 three times consecutively without overheating.

People think if you top 30damage it'll overheat you. It doesn't; that's not the point. Heavy alphas just reduce overall DPS, so you have to choose what you want to do, but unless you're doing a LOT of pinpoint damage it's not that bad.

Tiantara, on 18 August 2016 - 07:59 PM, said:

- Nope... With long cool-down of sniper mech you can now go closer and start brawling on mid-short range.

yup. I saw brawlers used extremely effectively. Lots of Gauss but a 7s cool down severely curtails it up close... And in a brawl, you're not keeping that Gauss long.


The biggest shock for me testing this was not how much it did, but how little. It's a very granular system, doesn't have the big heat shock ghost heat had. Firing too much just erodes efficiency.

The bar grows again very fast too, so spacing your fire a very tiny bit negates it completely.

8 erll dwf had no problems.