337 replies to this topic

[Dee Eight]

Not that I use gauss rifles that often, it certainly eliminates ever doing a gauszilla build and instead favours a macross cannon build. This is logical how ?

Edited by Dee Eight, 19 August 2016 - 12:55 AM.

[Kmieciu]

ironnightbird, on 18 August 2016 - 07:09 PM, said:

All brawler builds are dead (except for light brawlers), there are only going to be mid range snipers, mid-long range snipers, long range snipers, and very long range snipers lol...

Bull.
Dual AC20 got a straight buff. From 11.52 to just 5 heat penalty.
4xSRM4 is unaffected. 5-6 SRM6 require 2 volleys, just like with ghost heat.

Then again 3xC-ERLL, 3xC-LPL got reduced penalties and clan mechs got higher heatcapacity so long range poking just got better.

[Pat Kell]

Kmieciu, on 19 August 2016 - 01:06 AM, said:

Bull.
Dual AC20 got a straight buff. From 11.52 to just 5 heat penalty.
4xSRM4 is unaffected. 5-6 SRM6 require 2 volleys, just like with ghost heat.

Then again 3xC-ERLL, 3xC-LPL got reduced penalties and clan mechs got higher heatcapacity so long range poking just got better.

Is the traditional ghost heat system going away? I may have missed it but it looks like ghost heat is staying in this new system on top of the added heat from going over the 30pt damage/energy usage. So anything that suffers from ghost heat such as dual firing AC 20 will get ghost heat and energy heat. Was I reading this wrong? I will have to go back and check when I have more time.

In any event, I am bracing my nethers for what this will bring and hopefully I can ride the wave without too much frustration.

[Kmieciu]

Pat Kell, on 19 August 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

Is the traditional ghost heat system going away?

Yes. The old "ghost heat" with logarythmic scale and arbitrary multiplayers is thrown out.
This new "energy draw" is so easy to grasp you can calculate heat penalties without using smurphy's mechlab :-)

Fire 3 IS PPC? No penalty.
Fire 4 = 40 damage (10 over limit = 5 point heat penalty). Under ghost heat that penalty would be 31,92 points of extra heat. (Can't wait to try the 4xPPC AWS-8Q).

On the other hand, 2xPPC 2xGauss used to have 0 heat penalty for a 50 damage alpha, and now they generate an extra 10 points of heat.

It's quite clever, actually.

Maybe the 4xPPC Stalkers will make a comeback :-)

Edited by Kmieciu, 19 August 2016 - 01:26 AM.

[Lily from animove]

Nice idea but, this together with an event will not help the participation on the PTS.

However what is the energy regenertion?

also, why haven't you just tried 30 heattreshold, inetad of an empty 30 heat you just have given us now a filled 30 energy. Which actually acts exactly the same ecpet your basically gave every weapon a different heat value by heat = damage.

Edited by Lily from animove, 19 August 2016 - 01:44 AM.

[BruteForceLeader]

Err... haven't found something about it but didn't read all post... maybe missed it.

Isn't that a total exclusion of emergency shutdown???
Without OVERRIDE engaged you may only fire a small amount of weapons at all. With OVERRIDE you will get the heat and because you are on OVERRIDE you won't shut down but just go boom

And why do i get Neo-Ghost-Heat for combining different weapon systems?
Exampel
My MAR-5M, 3 SRM6, 4 MedLas, 1 ER Large.
*arg... make that the 5D... sorry my bad*
Normal Brawl: i say hello with 18 SRM... during the SRM cooldown the medlasers search for a weak spot (that will get a serve heat penalty now cause i spent almost all energy on the SRM)... than i place another 18 SRM (may get a heat penalty because the energy didn't refresh during fire)... on cold maps i would fire the lasers again during the SRM-cooldown, on hotter maps only if the enemy might go down by that hit.
On old system and cold maps i could brawl it out for 3 maybe 4 Salvos of SRM combined with 2 or 3 laser vollys (not shoting the ER large in Brawl that one is for when nobody is close by for brawling) and had a decent chance to avoid shutdown. Now i will get Neo-Ghost-Heat... big time.

Edited by BruteForceLeader, 19 August 2016 - 02:18 AM.

[Flying Fox 333]

shopsmart, on 18 August 2016 - 01:41 PM, said:

If gauss equip stays true. I will eliminate some mechs that are lore with 3+ from ever existing here. But like the instant fire.

Which mechs have triple gauss stock, out of curiosity? Were there many of them?

It could still be made to work, they could either quirk the gauss rifle a third less damage thus staying within the power draw mechanic energy limit.

[Lancwen]

From what i understand (i have not tested the new system myself), you draw energy from a pool and you generate heat at the same time using the current system (without ghost heat)?
Exceeding your energy pool gives you heat malus and prevents you from firing?

[Matthew Ace]

Flying Fox 333, on 19 August 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Which mechs have triple gauss stock, out of curiosity? Were there many of them?

It could still be made to work, they could either quirk the gauss rifle a third less damage thus staying within the power draw mechanic energy limit.

Only 4 that I know of:
Annihilator (ANH-1G) (3)
Thunder Hawk (3)
Annihilator C, Gauss Variant (4)
Annihilator C, Gausszilla (5!!!)

[Flying Fox 333]

Matthew Ace, on 19 August 2016 - 02:25 AM, said:

Only 4 that I know of:
Annihilator (ANH-1G) (3)
Thunder Hawk (3)
Annihilator C, Gauss Variant (4)
Annihilator C, Gausszilla (5!!!)

Thanks for that Matt, 5 is insane. Can't believe that's legit.

[Dran Dragore]

testet right now the new system and could say that i can live with it. I expected it far more worse than it is now. But there are some thoughts you should make:

Dual AC20 will make a big pinpoint with less penalty. So expect that there are far more Dual AC20 Builds are coming in. Same with the Clan UAC20.

Dual Gauss and Dual PPC/Clan PPC in Assaults are realy an evil punch.Maybe think again about the heat penalty when firing the Dual Gauss close or in Group after the PPCs. I suggest that it is important to wait one full reload of the energy bar.

Quad Ultra AC5 are still to strong. Tried it in a King Crab and dont feel any pain during autofire the 4 Ultras. In my opinion are these Mechs with lots of IS Ultra AC5 as evil as the Laser Vomits from the Clans. I wished myself that they are getting some problems firing all Guns permanently.

Quad Ultra AC10 in Kodiaks: they are fine handled now. You can fire some salvos, but not this kind of Tower of Death expirienced since the introducing of this mech.

Laser Vomits at all (Timbers, Black Knights, Grasshoppers, Ebons,...): think its ok what i see so far: its a pain to shoot 2 LPLs and 3 ER Meds at once, but its also a pain to shoot 6 ML and AC20/Large LAsers/LPL,... at once. So its far more difficult to poke so often like in the past.

All in all: i could say by myself it brings some new fresh tactical play into the game. Some beloved Builds from the past are going to the second row, some others will come in favor. The unliked Gauss mechanic is gone, and this is fine. The shadow heat also and this brings me to new ideas of weapon groups (for example 3 LPL in Clan Mechs,...). Just maybe think about the cool up from the energy bar (think it "heals" too fast, but thats just mho). So: all green from my side.

[Jaqir]

The most likely thing to change at some point (I hope, at least) is energy draw being directly tied to weapon damage. Should just be an additional stat for each weapon, based on a formula or other and adjusted as required.

[xengk]

Wintersdark, on 18 August 2016 - 08:42 PM, said:

No, it's not. Have you tried it? Fire a uac20, get 20 energy draw. Double tap happens at 0.5seconds, you're at 10 energy, that takes you to 30. No extra heat.

But here's where you folks need to test this stuff.

Exceed that. Go to 40. It's 5 extra heat.

I ran a 4PPC 3ML standard engined awesome tonight. I ONLY group fired the PPC's - all four at once. It was very manageable.

That would have been death under ghost heat, yet here I could group fire all 4 three times consecutively without overheating.

People think if you top 30damage it'll overheat you. It doesn't; that's not the point. Heavy alphas just reduce overall DPS, so you have to choose what you want to do, but unless you're doing a LOT of pinpoint damage it's not that bad.

yup. I saw brawlers used extremely effectively. Lots of Gauss but a 7s cool down severely curtails it up close... And in a brawl, you're not keeping that Gauss long.

Thanks for the reply.
I am away on holiday and have no access to MWO.
Should check youtube for PTS videos.

What I understand from the test note is that:
Fire UAC20
Use 20 Energy
Energy Reserve at 10
No penalty
0.5 seconds later
Double tap UAC20
Use 20 Energy
Energy Reserve at -10
Take (10*0.5) 5 Heat penalty

From your reply, it seem the energy replenish at "real time" instead of 1 second tick.
Fire UAC20
Use 20 Energy
Energy Reserve at 10
No Heat penalty
0.5 seconds later
Energy replenished: 10
Double tap UAC20
Use 20 Energy
Energy Reserve at 0
No Heat penalty

[Mottfried]

New Energy Draw system reads very interesting!
I hope to see more distinct weaponary, like combining LRMs with SRMs and pulse lasers.
That should lead to more realistic mechs and longer fights!!!

And great that removed the ****** gaus mechanic

Edited by Mottfried, 19 August 2016 - 03:15 AM.

[Vellron2005]

Just from reading the original PTS Energy draw post.. here are my thoughts:

The energy available to a mech should be directly tied to the size and type of the engine installed and the mech's size category. The bigger the engine/mech, the more energy it uses. This would eliminate gimp builds on lights, and would force us to build "according to size" and not cram boat-loads of the same old-same old weapons into a mech that was never meant to carry them.

Also, Assault mechs CANNOT have the same amount of energy as a light.. its just silly.. A light will never use all of its energy, and as things are now (30 energy), an assault can't even alpha once without overheating

Case in point - my Executioner build ("Golden boy" Exe-D as I've dubbed it). 7 x CERSL + CERPPC + 2 x CLRM10.. That is a pretty normal load-out for a clan assault with even some hardpoints empty. That's 7 x 3 energy + 15 energy + 2 x 10 energy. That's 21+15+20 energy. 55 energy alpha. Insta-overload, and insta-shutdown.

Also, as I understand it, each weapon uses its damage equivalent in energy when you fire it. So it is completely irrelevant if I fire all those 7 small lasers at once, or in rapid-succession and chain fire. Great. Thanks for that. :/

This system would force me to fire all weapons within seconds of eachother, or build my Exe-D so it carries only 2-3 big weapons like LPL's.. This effectively makes mechs with lots of hardpoints like the Executioner useless, as their hardpoints go to waste.

Bad mechanic.

Also, there's another issue. Weapons with spread damage like SRM/LRM simply are not valuable enough to use. You will fire saaay, 2 x LRM20 and overheat yourself, dealing maybe 5 damage per component. A guy with 2 x PPC or 2 x gauss will hit a single component, annihilating it, possably core-ing you outright, and stay frosty.

Bad mechanic.

Revisions necessary, no PTS needed.

[Racerxintegra2k]

My personal opinion. I've been playing this game for 6 months. In those 6 months i had enough fun to justify playing only MWO and spending ~$400 on it. With these proposed changes the combat part of this game for me will change fundamentally. I for one am not happy that my 6 month and money investment will go straight into the garbage because of all the various complainers and know it all's. These guys will never be satisfied. They are the type that complain just because they are full of negativity. No amount of "tweaking" will ever convince them that the only reason they died was because something was OP or the game is fundamentally flawed. The game play IS the fun part or none of us would still be here, you go down a very dangerous road when you start making big changes to gameplay. I've come to really enjoy MWO and the community as a whole. If these changes shift the game to much from where it is now though, i see no point in staying.

[DevilCrayon]

So far, to me, in the 'Mechs I've tested so far, it achieve the goal of feeling pretty close to productions, other than the gauss instifire taking a bit to get used to again.

Having a more consistent system that's visible to the user is way better than having to remember a hidden one or dig up a forum post from years ago to understand what's going on.

For the Heat Intensity and Critical Heat Indicator, please consider also changing the shape of the indication icon as well as the color. This will help those of us that are color deficient and those with lower vision.

[The worst pilot ever]

Oh please dont cut the range on my lpls... my scat is weak nuff already...

[LORD ORION]

Flying Fox 333, on 19 August 2016 - 01:58 AM, said:

Which mechs have triple gauss stock, out of curiosity? Were there many of them?

It could still be made to work, they could either quirk the gauss rifle a third less damage thus staying within the power draw mechanic energy limit.

ANH-1G has 3 Gauss and an ERPPC

I thought for sure PGI would release the Annihilator as the counter to the Kodiak... and and and... make the ANH-C2 the hero variant so people would lose their **** and buy a million mech packs. (It's an IS mech that uses clan tech: 4x clan gauss and CLERPPC)

[LORD ORION]

The worst pilot ever, on 19 August 2016 - 05:07 AM, said:

Oh please dont cut the range on my lpls... my scat is weak nuff already...

You can use 3x CERL just fine now.