14 replies to this topic

[Xetelian]

I was looking over the notes and saw that every mech is getting the same 30 damage cap

I am concerned because I pilot AS7s and DWFs most of the time and 30 damage is a little low

I'd like to see different caps for each tier

Light 25-30 or no nerf
Medium 30-35
Heavies 30-40
Assaults 40-50

Main reasoning is 30 across all tiers is really not nerfing many lights but is HUGELY nerfing Assaults and I don't feel Assaults were the worst offenders, I think that Heavies were the biggest offenders and I feel shrinking Assaults down so much will leave the slower ones without much fight.

The Heavy queue is usually 55% of the drop queue and assaults are usually around 17% with mediums around 17% and Lights 11%

So I'd even argue that lights don't need a nerf at all and can bring 36+ alphas because they're seriously out armored by every other class, especially at double armor

Another reason is the Atlas and other 100 tonners, 4 SRM6s is 51 points of damage already really hot + spread out

This is the best Atlas
AS7-S
I'm not asking for 96 points I'm asking for about 50, it will still strangle the BNC 3M enough that it can't fire off ALL of its weapons without heat penalty but allow most of them

Another thing is you can do this without shaving 1 damage off the IS-LPL because the assaults will still be potent like the BNC 3M but still very short ranged and hot while the Black Knight will still be at a sharp disadvantage as well as the GHR and TBR

Or give the average and borderline Assaults a +10 or +20 Alpha allowed quirk or enough heat reduction to counter act the Ghost Heat 2.0




I just feel this nerf is felt too severely by most assaults, especially the poor Atlas which can't Dual Gauss

BOAR'S HEAD

The Boar's head wont even be able to fire its MPL alpha which is a huge disadvantage


Also, people with macros will gain a further advantage, firing 30 then 30 as soon as it can again with different weapons at close range is going to decimate

Edited by Xetelian, 18 August 2016 - 10:07 PM.

[Khobai]

Agreed. The entire point of assault mechs is to do more damage than lighter mechs. Why even have assault mechs in the game if they cant outdamage light mechs? Its absurd.

And certain assaults, like the Executioner with 13 energy hardpoints are functionally useless with energy drain. Because it has to fire its clan small pulses in 30 damage groupings, which means the weapons will cooldown faster than it can regain energy, resulting in having a bunch of hardpoints it cant even use.

The cap should at least be:

Light Mechs = 30
Medium Mechs = 35
Heavy Mechs = 40
Assault Mechs = 45

Edited by Khobai, 18 August 2016 - 10:16 PM.

[Random Carnage]

We shouldn't even need to be pointing this out.

[Fiona Marshe]

Have a carefulread of the whole thing. Assaults still have a huge advantage due to being able to fit multiple groups of 30 damage. With the reduced weapon cooldown across the board (15%), its going to be a long time between alpa strikes.

Use the cooldown time to have more than one weapon group...

[Yellonet]

Fiona Marshe, on 19 August 2016 - 01:14 AM, said:

Have a carefulread of the whole thing. Assaults still have a huge advantage due to being able to fit multiple groups of 30 damage. With the reduced weapon cooldown across the board (15%), its going to be a long time between alpa strikes.

Use the cooldown time to have more than one weapon group...

Exactly. Larger mechs have more armour and can mount more weapons for higher dps. Having more energy in larger mechs would take away the advantages of this new system.

[Yosharian]

It's going to destroy brawling, especially brawling assaults, because you won't be able to fire and twist.

I guess that's PGI's goal...

[Gamuray]

Yosharian, on 19 August 2016 - 02:50 AM, said:

It's going to destroy brawling, especially brawling assaults, because you won't be able to fire and twist.

I guess that's PGI's goal...

Yes you can. Have you played on the PTS? Energy replenishes very quickly. Atlas-S... Fire AC20, wait a half second or so, fire srm's, twist while they reload. Done. No big deal.

The mechs this system affects for twisting is mechs that bring boat loads of lasers everywhere. But that only affects them if you're trying to get your "giga-spike-alpha" damage. Bracket it. Long range weapons for long range, short range for short range. Then you can still fire, twist, fire, twist.

Example: 3 large pulse, 5 med lasers

fire the 3 large pulse and twist OR fire the 5 mediums then twist. The whole point of this system is to reduce large alphas and raise time-to-kill. Bigger mechs don't need large alphas as they can just bring multiple smaller "alphas" and not wait for the first set of weapons to reload.



ps. I'm not saying I like this system. I think it over-complicates things. Could just make weapons fire straight out of their hardpoints... then there is no precise alpha... only precise shooting OR alpha....

Edited by Gamuray, 19 August 2016 - 04:42 AM.

[Hit the Deck]

Nova can still deliver 30 damage left and right punches consecutively just like usual (12x cERSL).

[Stone Wall]

I think the 30 cap is fine.

Assaults carry more weapons, more armor, and more equipment. If you feel they are too slow and vulnerable with a 30 cap, then move on down to Heavies.

[Mavairo]

More weapons = more opportunities to fire at 30 power...

They will do more dmg by virtue of that alone

[FupDup]

Because the PTS assault builds of PPCs, Gauss, and Dakka apparently aren't strong enough.

[Gentleman Reaper]

People still aren't getting the point. Power draw doesn't limit DPS, simply alpha strikes, you can still fire all your weapons within their cooldown without triggering the extra heat, you just can't fire it all at once and turn away. This alone is what made heavy mechs so powerful, if they want to engage, they need to keep their front exposed for a longer time, as opposed to using their fast twist speed to shield.

Edited by Gentleman Reaper, 19 August 2016 - 07:27 AM.

[draiocht]

[mod]This thread has been moved to Energy Draw Public Test.[/mod]

[Serondar]

In my opinion engine size should determine available energy along with the mechs ability to deliver the energy where needed (internal power bus)

A simplistic example but you could do

Mech weight / 10 + engine size / 10 or something to that effect.

That way 100 toners with a 400 engine would have a 50 power draw tops.

It would be a little bit of a nerf to the omnis with their locked engines but it could be quirked.

[Xetelian]

I'm sorry, I can't imagine not being able to alpha 4xSRM6s
They spread their damage
They are super short range
They are very hot without ghost heat

On my AS7 S this is a huge detriment

Heavies are the problem, they maintain 50+ % of the queue for a reason and assaults are tied with mediums most of the time as secondary picks

This change is going to hurt the already cumbersome and slow assaults that are supposed to be the counter to Heavies

Lights<Mediums<Heavies<Assaults<Lights

This is the ideal, faster mechs can gank lone assaults from behind while in straight up fights assaults win

As it stands currently its more like

Lights<Heavies
Mediums<Heavies
Assaults< Heavies

With the 30 limit cap you're bringing heavies in line but still reducing the mechs that need to do the most damage


If you don't pilot gimmick Assaults or Assaults at all you can't really tell me its fine

The BNC 3M is bringing a huge alpha but it is really hot and really short in range

While others like the
AWS-8V

Can't even fire its SRM6s without incurring a heat penalty

ZEU-6T

Neither can the Zues