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Theorycrafting: Hunchback: Sturmmech


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#1 Xandre Blackheart

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:28 PM

Still no beta fairy. I think perhaps I have done bad things in a previous life. Or maybe this one too. So I shall once again entertain myself with more wild supposition about mechs that I "own" but cannot play with.

Having covered the Atlas, the Catapult, and the Jenner in previous posts, We come to the Hunchback. A brutal medium mech reportedly designed as a close environment "brawler". One can easily see how the original design would excel in urban or other close environments (if there were mech sized buildings with lots of doors and hallways, it would be the mech of choice). But a mech designed specifically for close combat environments is a specialized niche.

Like heavy-weapons infantry operating in an urban environment, a lance of hunchbacks would be an excellent way to sweep an city landscape. They don't need high speed, they definitely have the weapons for the job, and they can take a decent amount of punishment. But in the open countryside they are totally outside their element.

Fortunately the hunchback is a fairly flexible chassis. Like infantry, It can easily be customized to a different role by a few quick equipment (and training) changes. For example, want something in a sniper role? just change out the "rifle" and tweak some equipment and you have a sniper mech.

Since it is such a flexible mech, the thought arises, just how flexible can we make it? What if we want something like your "average" grunt, capable of operating in built up areas, open areas, mountains, hills, you name it? The most popular type of infantry arms for this role is the assault rifle. The most common flavors in the modern era are the M-16 and the AK-47 (and their variants). Both of these excellent small arms can trace their linage back to the StG 44 also known as the Sturmgewehr 44.

I chose the name Sturmmech because assault mech was already taken, and to avoid confusion. We aren't talking about making an assault mech out of the stock hunchback, We want an all around well engineered weapon capable of engaging the enemy in any terrain and at a reasonable variety of ranges, while providing enough firepower to force the enemy to take cover or respond to the attack, without needing to become some lumbering behemoth.

So, once again not content to leave well enough alone, we strip our hunchback down to the base chassis:

5 tons (standard internal structure) + 3 tons (standard cockpit) = 8 tons

It's been stated that endo-steel is available in the game, and this would drop the weight of our internal structure to 2.5 tons, at the cost of 14 critical slots. Since the Hunchback has 3 energy hardpoints and one ballistic hardpoint, we may want to reserve the critical space for another space hog, double heatsinks.

At this point we need to consider how fast (or slow) our all around sturmmech needs to be. The base walking speed for the stock hunchback is 4. This requires a 200 rated standard engine which weighs in at 8.5 tons. Because the engine rating is 200, it requires only a 2 ton gyro. To reach a walking speed of 5, we need a 250 rated standard fusion engine. This weighs in at 12.5 tons and requires a 3 ton gyro. This means in order to advance to the next higher speed rating we have to invest 5 tons, a significant amount of our total weight (10%).

We could also consider using XL technology to reduce the weight to much lower levels (4.5 tons and 6.5 tons respectively) but our sturmmech will very likely find itself in close environment situations. Using an XL engine in that type of situation would severely reduce the mechs capability to "soldier on" after taking a beating. This would tend to rule out XL technology, because we are also looking for a rugged design.

So if we stay with the original engine rating we are at least at an "average" speed and save a ton for using a smaller gyro as a bonus.

8 tons + 8.5 (200 STD Fusion Engine) + 2 tons (Standard Gyro) = 18.5 tons

Thinking along the lines of wanting a rugged design, this is a good time to consider armor. The original chassis comes with 10 tons of armor, 160 armor points out of a maximum of 169. For an extra half ton of armor we could achieve 168 points, close to the theoretical maximum. Or we could take advanced technology like ferro fibrous armor, at the cost of 14 critical spaces, which as noted above would severely limit room for double heatsink technology.

18.5 tons + 10.5 tons (168 armor points) = 29 tons

We can place our extra points on our legs or center torso, as everything else is already armored to the max.

It is now time to consider what weapons we want our sturmmech to carry. This is where we diverge from the stock chassis, as those who have been paying attention will note that we really haven't change anything yet.
With only 21 tons left for weapons, heatsinks, and ammunution, we have to weigh each assumption carefully. We want weapons that can be used at both short and (reasonably) long ranges, with enough punch to make a difference on the battlefield.

As ballistic weapons are the heaviest, and we only have the hardpoints for one, we will consider those first. The stock AC/20 is an awe-inspiring weapon, and commands a great deal of respect on the batlefield. But it is heavy, has limited ammunition, and lacks significant range. The AC/10 is perhaps a better choice, and it has respectable range (450m) and does significant damage with good ammo reserves. But it is still extremely heavy at 12 tons, and would still significantly limit any other weapons options. The AC/5 is a light weapon, with very good range (540m), has excellent ammo reserves, and is much lighter than it's larger cousins. But it is lackluster damage for the weight it costs. And we can't seriously consider the AC/2 for a sturmmech, as it is really only good for long range pinpoint sniping.

After considering carefully the options, I will opt for the AC/10. While the AC/5 is an excellent weapon that shouldn't be dismissed lightly, our desire is for a rugged design with good engagement capability.

29 tons + 12 tons (RT mounted AC/10) + 2 tons ammo (20 AC/10 rounds) = 43 tons.

But we also don't want to depend on just an AC/10 at medium to long engagement ranges, either. A PPC would also cost us 7 of our remaining 7 tons leaving nothing left over for heat management or for the other 2 energy hardpoints. A good compromise would be a large laser. It still has decent engagement range (450m the same as the AC/10) and does very good damage for it's weight cost (8 damage for 5 tons vs 10 damage for 12 tons). So I will gladly take a large laser.

43 tons + 5 tons (LA mounted Large Laser) = 48 tons

Now we can decide to shove in 2 medium lasers But that leaves us nothing for heatsinks. Fortunately, we didn't take advanced technology like endo-steel or ferro-fibrous armor, which saved us room for another advanced technology, double heat sinks. This will be a necessary investment as we will need the heat dissipation for our upgraded weapon suite. And since the 200 engine rating mandates that we actually have to physically mount 2 of our stock 10 heatsinks, it's fortunate that we saved some room.

48 tons + 2 tons (1 RA mounted Medium Laser, 1 Head mounted Medium Laser) = 50 tons.

Now we have a rugged well armored mech with decent movement that can engage out to 450m with two hard hitting weapons, and still engage at close ranges with almost the same damage potential as the original version. (28 vs 33). And it has the heat dissipation to sustain fire with it's energy weapons (20 heat dissipation)

The Sturmmech should be an interesting design to test as the philosophy is one of balanced design and adaptability.

Edited by Xandre Blackheart, 17 July 2012 - 05:06 PM.


#2 light487

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 04:59 PM

Liked it before reading it.. now to actually read it B)

#3 trycksh0t

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:04 PM

If I may suggest some alterations: Your basic design is pretty solid. I would suggest dropping the head mounted medium and large laser, upgrade to an LB-10X, and pop a PPC where the large laser used to be. Increases your engagement range to 540m, but is still quite potent if things get close.

#4 J Samuel

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:04 PM

Dig it.

#5 Conlaoch

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:10 PM

Fits the stated design goal quite well. A solid well-rounded design. Finding a way to stick jump jets onto it would have addressed some of the speed/maneuverability concerns, but I always think that jump jets make things better.

#6 Xandre Blackheart

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:12 PM

View Posttrycksh0t, on 17 July 2012 - 05:04 PM, said:

If I may suggest some alterations: Your basic design is pretty solid. I would suggest dropping the head mounted medium and large laser, upgrade to an LB-10X, and pop a PPC where the large laser used to be. Increases your engagement range to 540m, but is still quite potent if things get close.


That is a good option, however at extremely close ranges (under 90m) the loss of your primary energy weapon would mean that you are left with only the LB-10X and a medium laser. This mean that the mech will have difficulty at close ranges, and I wanted a design capable of a wide variety of engagements.

I was also torn on whether or not to take the AC/5 for the longer engagement range also, but I think the AC/10 large laser combo is a good compromise that works well together.

#7 light487

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:12 PM

Yes.. I was going to ask.. why an AC10 and not a LBX10..?

Everything else the same just with LBX instead of AC10.. but of course then you end up with an extra 1 tonne... so not sure what you would do with the extra tonne?

#8 Xandre Blackheart

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:14 PM

View PostConlaoch, on 17 July 2012 - 05:10 PM, said:

Fits the stated design goal quite well. A solid well-rounded design. Finding a way to stick jump jets onto it would have addressed some of the speed/maneuverability concerns, but I always think that jump jets make things better.


Yes, it would be a stellar design with jump jets, however the stock chassis has no slots for jump jets, so perhaps an alternate chassis will provide that capability.

View Postlight487, on 17 July 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

Yes.. I was going to ask.. why an AC10 and not a LBX10..?

Everything else the same just with LBX instead of AC10.. but of course then you end up with an extra 1 tonne... so not sure what you would do with the extra tonne?


More ammo of course. Currently no one can say if the LB-10X will allow selection between scatter and solid shot. To avoid more uncertainty, I have opted for the regular AC/10.

#9 light487

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:16 PM

But they're basically interchangeable on this loadout.. so it's a good starting point and then switch the AC10 with the LBX10.. and see what happens etc.

#10 Xandre Blackheart

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:25 PM

View Postlight487, on 17 July 2012 - 05:16 PM, said:

But they're basically interchangeable on this loadout.. so it's a good starting point and then switch the AC10 with the LBX10.. and see what happens etc.


Yes, that is quite possible with a simple design like the hunchback.

You could just as easily drop the AC/10 to an AC/5 and swap the Large Laser to a PPC if you found that you really really needed the range.

#11 Technohic

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:29 PM

Seeing all these threads makes me glad I got the legendary founders pack with all 4 founder mechs. In the past, I tended to play assault type mechs because I usually go "Yes, I wan ALL that in here!" and maybe sacrifice 10 tons for something with jump jets, but being a little older and more mature, I think I have learned to be patient and find a role rather than want as much mech as I can muster.

Great threads and I can't way to plug things in and out to see what I come up with.

#12 Xandre Blackheart

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:38 PM

View PostTechnohic, on 17 July 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

Seeing all these threads makes me glad I got the legendary founders pack with all 4 founder mechs. In the past, I tended to play assault type mechs because I usually go "Yes, I wan ALL that in here!" and maybe sacrifice 10 tons for something with jump jets, but being a little older and more mature, I think I have learned to be patient and find a role rather than want as much mech as I can muster.

Great threads and I can't way to plug things in and out to see what I come up with.


That is the danger to avoid, stuffing too much into a mech. The customization system is built so that everything comes with a cost. The fun part is trying to figure out ahead of time what will be necessary, what will be merely useful, and what is unnecessary and detrimental to the design. Then you get to pilot it and see if you were right!

#13 trycksh0t

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 05:59 PM

View PostXandre Blackheart, on 17 July 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:


That is a good option, however at extremely close ranges (under 90m) the loss of your primary energy weapon would mean that you are left with only the LB-10X and a medium laser. This mean that the mech will have difficulty at close ranges, and I wanted a design capable of a wide variety of engagements.

I was also torn on whether or not to take the AC/5 for the longer engagement range also, but I think the AC/10 large laser combo is a good compromise that works well together.


Agreed, I figured that anything that managed to get within 90m was going to be a hurt puppy by that point, but your concerns are valid. I always looked at it as if I was within 90m of an enemy, I probably did something wrong (As I said, personal preference).

Any thoughts to taking a UAC/5? Keep the large laser, upgrade the 2 mediums to pulse (granted, shorter range, but the extra punch is nice), and carry a whopping 3-tons of AC ammunition. Just bouncing ideas around, I haven't settled on what medium chassis I want to garage up, but from reading your other builds it appears we tend to share similar thought processes.

#14 Xandre Blackheart

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:15 PM

View Posttrycksh0t, on 17 July 2012 - 05:59 PM, said:


Agreed, I figured that anything that managed to get within 90m was going to be a hurt puppy by that point, but your concerns are valid. I always looked at it as if I was within 90m of an enemy, I probably did something wrong (As I said, personal preference).

Any thoughts to taking a UAC/5? Keep the large laser, upgrade the 2 mediums to pulse (granted, shorter range, but the extra punch is nice), and carry a whopping 3-tons of AC ammunition. Just bouncing ideas around, I haven't settled on what medium chassis I want to garage up, but from reading your other builds it appears we tend to share similar thought processes.


The Ultra 5 will be a good option if it is in. But again I have no idea how it is implemented, and it does have the possibility of jamming, at least in TT, If it's available it's probably a good choice to take, at least as good as the regular AC/5. But who can tell without testing?

#15 Graphite

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:44 PM

Do like these threads Xandre!

Plenty of room for FF and endo though - drop half a ton of armour and switch to an LBX10 (are they in?) and you can have 5/8 speed with a standard engine!

Posted Image

Edited by Graphite, 17 July 2012 - 06:52 PM.


#16 Xinaoen

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 06:45 PM

My take on the Hunchback is nearly the opposite, funny enough.

Personally, I'm a fiend for speed. I always figure that if I'm going to be moving at a walking speed of 4, I might as well be doing it in an Assault 'Mech. Medium 'Mechs are my favorite because you can crank them to ridiculous speeds, while carrying firepower that even the heaviest 'Mechs have to respect.

If I want to get a 50 ton 'Mech to a crazy top speed, I'll need an XL Engine to do it. It's a risk, but I'll try to counterbalance it by packing on as much armor as I can. Besides - if my experiment works, I should be fast enough to pick and choose my engagements; that alone might be worth the hit to my survivability.

When I said that I wanted my Hunchback to be fast, I wasn't kidding. I'm going to pack on a 350 XL Engine, giving the 'Mech a speed of 7/11 - as quick as the stock Jenner. That might seem excessive, but it actually makes a lot more sense than it might appear to. Even with the weight of the engine and the gyro, I have an even 23 tons left over - or 25.5 with Endo Steel internals. For comparison, a Jenner can reach a speed of 11 with only a 245 XL - but it ends up with only 21 extra tons, even with Endo Steel.

It's a surprising fact that the 50 ton mark is the "sweet spot" for a speed of 7/11. That is to say, a 50 ton 'Mech with a 350 XL engine will have more spare tonnage than a 'Mech of any other weight at the same speed.

For simplicity's sake, I'll make very few changes to the stock Hunchback's armament. The two Medium Lasers and one Small will remain unchanged; the AC/20 is swapped out for an LB-10X AC, with CASE to protect its two tons of ammo. This leaves me with 9.5 tons to play with - exactly enough to max the Hunchback with Ferro Fibrous armor, for 169/169 coverage. I end up with only one spare critical slot; talk about a lean design.

The design will only generate 11 heat when firing all of its weapons, so I won't bother with Double Heat Sinks - I have plenty of room for them in the engine, but it's an unnecessary increase to the cost of a 'Mech that's already clocking in at a price of almost 11 million C-Bills. That's Helm Memory Core tech for you.

I've given up some firepower, and my range is so-so, but I'm jogging around at more than double the speed of the stock Atlas. I might not be much good in a stand-up fight against a heavier target - but I should be able to run circles around them, and my firepower is a bit more than even the biggest 'Mech wants hitting it in the back. Against a scout, I'm a real terror - fast enough to keep pace with all but the very quickest 'Mechs, while sporting both a big enough gun to stop any Light 'Mech in its tracks and enough armor to shrug off anything that the average scout can dish out.

In the end, I've practically reversed the Hunchback's role on the battlefield. Instead of a tank, I'm a supercharged scout-hunter and skirmisher built not to soak hits, but to backstab and flank the enemy. I might go out in a blaze of glory, but you can bet that I'll be taking an unwary opponent or two with me.

Edited by Xinaoen, 17 July 2012 - 06:47 PM.


#17 Soupstyle

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:20 PM

I like both Xandre's and Xinaoen's Hunchback designs. Very different but versatile. I am not a huge XL fan, but the speed can make a big difference in a fight.

On a side note: Might get more comments with a short TL:DR overview of your build at the end of your posts though (if you are looking for them).

#18 Cyllan

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:24 PM

View PostSoupstyle, on 17 July 2012 - 08:20 PM, said:

On a side note: Might get more comments with a short TL:DR overview of your build at the end of your posts though (if you are looking for them).


On the other hand, we can hope that people uninterested in in-depth analysis will see a wall of text and skip the post entirely.

#19 Jiri Starrider

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Posted 17 July 2012 - 08:41 PM

View PostXandre Blackheart, on 17 July 2012 - 05:12 PM, said:

...however at extremely close ranges (under 90m) the loss of your primary energy weapon...


Thought I read someplace they were doing away with the minimum range's on the ballistic weapons and the PPC as they had no reasonably explainable reason for existence other than to appease the great god Game Balance. Whereas the LRM missiles still have it due to a need to arm (though how then are SRM's and MRM's armed out of the box?).





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