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Power Draw Feddback And Some Numbers


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#1 pyrocomp

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 06:18 AM

First, the system is good as it (in theory) allows simplier management. The audible ping when the energy is depleted is a really good thing and should be kept. While the ping for 'energy replenished' might also be an option.

Second, the 4vs4 matches are very different from 12vs12 and thus there is no way to compare actual TTK. But from limited experience of 1 on 1, the TTK became lower. I cannot guarantee that, but now at the PTS there is no way to disengage from the fight (and on live servers you can at laest try that with reasonable chances) or gain some seconds to breathe.

Third, the system in it's main aim to limit high Alphas failed. Not because it is a bad system, but main due to badly chosen parameters.
Look at GH penalties and at the ED penalties, especially at worst long range offenders. The heat penalty is way too low on high damages.
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I do not know how the initial energy cap was estimated, but looks like it should be lowered a bit to around 25. But it can hold it's place as it is not a big issue.

Another issue is that damage to energy convertion ratio of 1:1 while accounts for spread weapons does not account for range and thus makes long range weapons preferable if their heat is manageble. The energy consumption of longer range weapons should be higher than the one of shorter ranges. It might not be the strict rule, but might help a bit and be more or less intuitive.

However, the biggest miss of the current ED iteration is in energy to heat ratio for energy overdraw. It is set at 0.5 and should be around 2-2.5 to get to what GH does now.

So, I think that the drastic change in base parameters of the ED system are needed as also not a single iteration of PTS before this can go live, but this is definately an improvement above GH.

#2 Znail

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 06:26 AM

It's not intended to be as limiting as the current GH system, so if making the ratio 2-2.5 would get us to that so should that be avoided. The big change you are missing is that the old system could be worked around by mixing weapons like large and medium lasers. ED is less punishing, but you can't on the other hand get around it.

#3 pyrocomp

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 06:37 AM

View PostZnail, on 20 August 2016 - 06:26 AM, said:

It's not intended to be as limiting as the current GH system, so if making the ratio 2-2.5 would get us to that so should that be avoided. The big change you are missing is that the old system could be worked around by mixing weapons like large and medium lasers. ED is less punishing, but you can't on the other hand get around it.

I know about ED having less workaround than GH, but right now the system is not limiting anything. Getting to 2 heat per energy ovegraw will still leave this system way less limitng than GH. And the weapons range should be factored in this system. Right now the system does not limit high alphas as it was intented to.

#4 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 06:39 AM

No it will be extremely limiting. 10 extra heat for 35 damage? That is much more limiting then ghost heat.

#5 pyrocomp

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 06:43 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 20 August 2016 - 06:39 AM, said:

No it will be extremely limiting. 10 extra heat for 35 damage? That is much more limiting then ghost heat.

On GH you arleady have higher values on some weapons.
And this is if we do not take non-linear heat for energy overdraw. What value you fing 'reasonable'?

PS: 10 extra heat above what heat, btw?

Edited by pyrocomp, 20 August 2016 - 06:48 AM.


#6 Znail

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 06:54 AM

View Postpyrocomp, on 20 August 2016 - 06:37 AM, said:

I know about ED having less workaround than GH, but right now the system is not limiting anything. Getting to 2 heat per energy ovegraw will still leave this system way less limitng than GH. And the weapons range should be factored in this system. Right now the system does not limit high alphas as it was intented to.

How can it be less limiting when it actually gives a penalty? Right now on live so can you do a 60pts alpha strike for zero heat penalty, but with ED so would that cost you 15 extra heat. Would you even seriously consider a build on live that generated 15 heat from GH? Then how can ED be less limiting?

#7 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:05 AM

View Postpyrocomp, on 20 August 2016 - 06:43 AM, said:

On GH you arleady have higher values on some weapons.
And this is if we do not take non-linear heat for energy overdraw. What value you fing 'reasonable'?

PS: 10 extra heat above what heat, btw?


Depends but potentially 30+10 would be 40.

#8 pyrocomp

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:09 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 20 August 2016 - 07:05 AM, said:


Depends but potentially 30+10 would be 40.

And is that bad? Just to make sure.

#9 Gas Guzzler

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:14 AM

Uhh... yeah unless you want people to only take certain types of builds.

I just took out the Executioner with laser vomit and it was serviceable, if you go and increase the penalty and not change the energy pool at all, it is COMPLETELY useless.

#10 pyrocomp

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Posted 20 August 2016 - 07:23 AM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 20 August 2016 - 07:14 AM, said:

Uhh... yeah unless you want people to only take certain types of builds.

I just took out the Executioner with laser vomit and it was serviceable, if you go and increase the penalty and not change the energy pool at all, it is COMPLETELY useless.

So if the 10 is bad, then 5 is good? Or only 2.5? Or you propose energy consumption boost on certain types of weapons instead? Right now PPCs are... well, you saw it. Some weapon combinations are now usable. Try DWF with 5-6 cERPPCs Alpha.





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