167 replies to this topic

[L3mming2]

whats the better system GH ore ED?

Edited by L3mming2, 21 August 2016 - 05:42 AM.

[FannyBoss]

Energy Draw is better by a country mile

[Gamuray]

Ghost heat precisely attempted to deal with problematic boating builds. While flawed with workarounds.

Energy draw only addresses damage sent downrange, REGARDLESS of the effectiveness of that damage. Energy Draw penalized a mixed and inaccurate build just as much as it penalized a boated and accurate build.

While both are flawed, I think Energy Draw's penalization of non-problem builds makes it a step down. And changes that would address this issue would easily make is as or more complicated than ghost heat.

[FannyBoss]

What is your idea of a "non-problem build" I wonder?

[davoodoo]

I can put example of 4x srm6, decent build but nothing ridiculously impressive.

Or god forbid 4 mlas + 2 lb10x, absolute crap which is still penalized.

Edited by davoodoo, 21 August 2016 - 05:53 AM.

[Stephen Tregare]

I feel that ED gives more and better tools to use for weapon balance. Devs can put in the weapon description exactly what the ED rating is of a weapon, and that will apply across the board, similar to ghost heat. However, the choice is not as catastrophic as GH if you choose to fire everything at once or your timing is a hair off. One issue I'm seeing in so many posts is that many people are giving feedback as if this is finished product and that the base values they are using are final. This round of play testing is to find bugs, not set balance values. Russ has stated that some have been found and are being fixed. I think once the bugs have been ironed out they will start working on balancing the values of weapons, charge rates, and capacities so the broadest range of mechs and builds are viable. I don't white knight for PGI, but I do think this is a significantly more robust balancing mechanism than GH could ever be.

[davoodoo]

No this isnt finished product, but you know what pgi will do before ti hits live?? theyll crank up penatlies up to 11...

and mind you, mechwarrior online is the first game in the series and even in the entirety of battletech franchise where alphas have become a problem...

Edited by davoodoo, 21 August 2016 - 06:03 AM.

[Chados]

It needs adjusting. But I tried it this morning and overall I like it better than the current system. Running a stock Jester on Caustic Valley, and just shooting the medium and large lasers, I spike well into the red. But it feels more intuitive and controllable than the current system. I know when I'm going to do it. I'm able to balance my heat management better, especially when bringing the small lasers into play at close range.

[L3mming2]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 05:51 AM, said:

I can put example of 4x srm6, decent build but nothing ridiculously impressive.

Or god forbid 4 mlas + 2 lb10x, absolute crap which is still penalized.

as the lbx10s reload is way faster then the mlas you should be firing 2lbx10s+2ml at a time, you still get your max dps but no penalty... the new system is desingd to stop alphas, and your example would get only 2.5 heat penalty if it alphaed anny way..

ps this system douse not make bad weapons better than they are now at the moment, its not that lbx10's are anny good at the life server at the moment... thats the fault of weapon balance not ED..

Edited by L3mming2, 21 August 2016 - 06:22 AM.

[Kaptain]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 05:51 AM, said:

I can put example of 4x srm6, decent build but nothing ridiculously impressive.

Or god forbid 4 mlas + 2 lb10x, absolute crap which is still penalized.

The top one by 3 heat. That could easily be fixed by lowering SRM draw. Something several of us are in favor of.
The bottom one by 5 heat. This could also be fixed by lowering LBX draw.

I far prefer the easy to understand, easy to explain mechanic of power draw vs the completely arbitrary and exponential ghost heat system.

[Lunatic_Asylum]

Ghost heat is a system that includes development of previous titles, current titles, and ingenious solutions from the team. It should remain in the game. GH is a superior system to the less convoluted ED.

[L3mming2]

Kaptain, on 21 August 2016 - 06:59 AM, said:

The top one by 3 heat. That could easily be fixed by lowering SRM draw. Something several of us are in favor of.
The bottom one by 5 heat. This could also be fixed by lowering LBX draw.

I far prefer the easy to understand, easy to explain mechanic of power draw vs the completely arbitrary and exponential ghost heat system.

the bottom one is actualy only 2.5 heat (lbx has a 0.75 multiplyer) so the alpha draws 35..

[cazidin]

How is Ghost Heat anywhere close in votes to Energy Draw?! Energy Draw is vastly superior already, and will be even better with a few simple tweaks!

[L3mming2]

cazidin, on 21 August 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

How is Ghost Heat anywhere close in votes to Energy Draw?! Energy Draw is vastly superior already, and will be even better with a few simple tweaks!

ppl dont like change and want to keep lolphaing there way to victory in there lpl+ml mechs?
ppl are mre vocal about things they dislike?
ppl are bitervets that dislike anny thing pgi douse?

to be honest i cant understand it too why they think GH is better, but hey every one is entiteld to a opinion...

[davoodoo]

cazidin, on 21 August 2016 - 07:10 AM, said:

How is Ghost Heat anywhere close in votes to Energy Draw?! Energy Draw is vastly superior already, and will be even better with a few simple tweaks!

Because it isnt, it limited close range alphas using mixed mediums and larges but it increased alphas for long range weaponry.

ill take a look at metamechs
kdk3 will need to take 0.3s cd between shots which is pretty much aim adjust...
blr 2g build was replaced with 2c and now it can alpha all 5 lpl
tbr unaffected
kdk2 will need to switch between long range or short range or swap build(1)
grasshoper can now alpha all 5 llas
tbr laservomit nerfed(2)
Gauss + 2 lpl tbr unaffected.

Out of high top tier you have 2 mechs which got nerfed and both are clan...

Edited by davoodoo, 21 August 2016 - 07:27 AM.

[Kaptain]

davoodoo, on 21 August 2016 - 07:26 AM, said:

Because it isnt, it limited close range alphas using mixed mediums and larges but it increased alphas for long range weaponry.

Something that can easily be fixed by changing weapon draw values.

I for one far prefer the simple mechanics of ED vs the massive chart needed to understand GH.

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 07:03 AM, said:

the bottom one is actualy only 2.5 heat (lbx has a 0.75 multiplyer) so the alpha draws 35..

Thx!

[Gas Guzzler]

L3mming2, on 21 August 2016 - 07:18 AM, said:

ppl dont like change and want to keep lolphaing there way to victory in there lpl+ml mechs?
ppl are mre vocal about things they dislike?
ppl are bitervets that dislike anny thing pgi douse?

to be honest i cant understand it too why they think GH is better, but hey every one is entiteld to a opinion...

It's because ED looks like it is going to be a step back in balance that's why.

[L3mming2]

Gas Guzzler, on 21 August 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

It's because ED looks like it is going to be a step back in balance that's why.

yes, but thats because current quirks depended heavely on what the meta is under GH, if u change how the game works u have to reballance. but if you look at it like that you cant change anny thing (for better or worse) as it will upset the current status co.. and that way you will never be able to solve underlying issues of the system.. a example for me is that under ghost heat u can slam a 74 damage laser alpha down range (ore even more if u start mixing in GR and lasers) with no penalty what so ever but dont you dare try to fire 3PPC at a time...

this is a case of you cant make a omelet without braking some egs ..

and atleast part of that ballancing can heapen on the PTS...

[Sable]

the ones who like ghost heat are just those afraid of change.

[kapusta11]

ED is just way too restrictive. All mech builds become the same. All energy lights are pretty much stuck with 30 damage small/medium laser alpha. All energy mediums except for Nova are stuck with either 3 large class lasers or 2 PPCs.All heavies and assaults are stuck with either 20 dps build (capped by energy regen rate), or 30 damage long range alpha build (gauss, peeps etc) or 30x2 alpha build. EVERYTHING in-between gets nuked. No more laser Blackjacks or Enforcers with 40 something alpha, apparently that's too OP. No more SRM + cSPL Mad Dogs and Timberwolves. Executioner gets shafted too.

It's much easier and creates more gameplay diversity to max out one weapon option with current GH (like put 4 SRM6 lanchers) and then add something else (AC20 or cSPL or LPLs) on top of that than to max out the same 30 effective damage caps on every single mech.