104 replies to this topic

[MischiefSC]

Sjorpha, on 06 September 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

I think the best route is to take three heavies and a medium, that way you can come back with tonnage advantage once the Kodiaks are down, and it sets you up well against the streakboats clanners like to bring in the last two waves. Warhammers, quickdraws and thunderbolts are still ok, a good team can use coordinated large pulse poking to trade reasonably well with dakka kodiaks. Battlemaster can also poke ok against Kodiaks.

Any form of DPS race is pretty much lost beforehand, the Mauler can't keep up with or outrange Kodiaks any more since the quirks were nerfed.

It's also often a positioning problem. All the standard strats for defense tend to have wide open firing lines and leveraging short durations and ppfld against Clan higher heat to edge ahead on a Rules of Queensbury trade. Emerald Taiga being a great example - go middle, enemy balls up, smash. All out in the open.

KDK3 changed all that. It'll out-sustained DPS any 2 mechs and so 6 KDK3s and a mix of EBJs/TBRs will roll that match up. Same with going between the gates on Boreal or the pocket on Hellbore.

Need to adjust tactics to force fights into narrow spaces where the fatties can't line up.

Conversely Vitric and Sulfurous favor the Dakka Bear for low heat. A defensive KDK3 wall is flat out insane. You can't rush it and without going roof you can't get the range to corner it out - depending of the teams skill sometimes all you can do is throw out a couple sacrifices and rush a flank. That or all 5xAC5 Maulers and focus CTS down. It's a stone ***** either way.

The KDK3 is bordering OP *because* the assaults that were quirked up to match it got nerfed way down.

Not in favor of a KDK nerf. Use it as the base to get other assaults up to.

[Zibmo]

Fuerchtenichts, on 05 September 2016 - 09:49 PM, said:

Hmm, so reaching "Ace of Spades" with a mech means that this mech is OP?

Way to dress up that straw man.

[justcallme A S H]

Requiemking, on 06 September 2016 - 05:20 PM, said:

The BLK may have been hit hard, but most mechs in the Heavy/Assault weight class only changed slightly.

What?

Heavies
Black Knight
Grasshoper
Warhammer

All 3 of the decent IS heavies got a huge increase in size, there is no "changed slightly", they got slammed. Archer also got massive, but it was always too squishy so rarely used in FP.

Thunderbolt is the only one that got smaller, marginally. Catapult rescale was just plain borked.

Clans heavies is where the "changed slightly" comes into play as only 4 were touched and it was essentially a non event.



Assaults
There wasn't a lot of change there I agree. Atlas bigger / Zeus smaller for the most part.

[Spider00x]

MischiefSC, on 06 September 2016 - 05:53 PM, said:

The KDK3 is bordering OP *because* the assaults that were quirked up to match it got nerfed way down.

Not in favor of a KDK nerf. Use it as the base to get other assaults up to.

You hit the nail on the head, there was NO reason to nerf the Banshee 3M, a mech no one used until somone one made boating 5LPL popular, King crab no structure with a GIGANTIC CT almost unplayable in FW or in general for 100 ton investment.

Seriously PGI give consumer confidence back to IS, the davion loyalists are hanging on by a thread and getting hammered everynight by this clan assault/ streak meta.

Honestly the answer for IS is all large/ ER Large/ PPC spam but try getting non comp units to run a load out like that is hard.

[MischiefSC]

Spider00x, on 06 September 2016 - 11:08 PM, said:

You hit the nail on the head, there was NO reason to nerf the Banshee 3M, a mech no one used until somone one made boating 5LPL popular, King crab no structure with a GIGANTIC CT almost unplayable in FW or in general for 100 ton investment.

Seriously PGI give consumer confidence back to IS, the davion loyalists are hanging on by a thread and getting hammered everynight by this clan assault/ streak meta.

Honestly the answer for IS is all large/ ER Large/ PPC spam but try getting non comp units to run a load out like that is hard.

You can do 3 heavies and a medium. The problem is that it lacks tactical flexibility. All energy spam can work but it's a very slow, methodical meta especially for attack that doesn't play well for people used to the run n gun Clan strats.

You can do dakka in IS - especially at range I'll play a Mauler vs a KDK3. There's some great dakka Whammy builds and please dear god don't let on about the Shawks (I was rockin' the Dakka Shawk in FW before it was cool) but mostly... yeah. Energy.

You can also do an SRM Rush, which is comedy gold but it only works on some maps.

The real problem with IS is you need more work into drop deck synergy for your whole team. Clans have it with just about any setup, IS has to work hard to build it before the match starts. Hence the imbalance.

That and the hordes of suicide pugs for the IS. Honestly if you couldn't play in FW without being in a group of at least 3 the IS would be in a way better shape than it's in now.

[iLLcapitan]

Haven't played the Kodiaks since inception, gave it a try again yesterday in CW and it's really a bit ridiculous.
Though it rather stems from the fact that IS got the shaft since rescale - structure buffs and energy range quirks gone.
So Clans got a slight advantage atm - I'm fine with that, but would be nice to try to give IS 10 (or so) more tons - balance could be good then. You can't realistically bring 4 heavies (Quickdraws are rather suckish now) and everything below a heavy is cannon fodder for the streaks. Without structure buffs XL heavies also fall victim to 2-3 streak salvos. Maddog is crazy ton/damage efficient, probably a bit off.

[Count Zero74]

Since I own one too now they are definitely OP

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

von Haudegen, on 05 September 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Have you ever seen that a single BJ do 1800 Damage and do 8 Kills? When someone drop with 4 BJ and waste 100 tonns... are you sure that you have seen such a genius?
And who talks about streak6 in Oxide IIC?
After the Kodiak come the Streak-Boots and you can forget to bring lights in CW. The existence of Streak 6 and the Rescale-Nerf render the whole class useless. IS-Light-Rush is gone. No need to fear the "Mighty" Oxide any longer. It is now a small medium mech with a decend firepower which can´t jump.

And Atlas is on no map OP. You can play 10 Matches and see maybe only 1 Atlas. I haven´t piloted him in the last 6 months because he is to situational and most time worse than the Mauler and no match for the Kodiak... because most/all map allow to start fight over more than 300 (most time much more) meter and the Atlas is a slow piece of helpless metal

I've seen SirHitman do over 2000 in a single BJ and break 3500 repeatedly with multiple Blackjack decks, back when they were actually small.

And a bit overquirked.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

SmokeGuar, on 05 September 2016 - 01:51 PM, said:

Got Executioner as new toy. Checked k/d ratios after mastering 3 chassis, were better than KDK1 and KDK2.

So FW beta1 vet and Shredder = new pilot? Don't think so. Also group drop != QP. Group has no working matchmaker and team can help lot, as can be seen, only 3 kmds.
Highest kills i have seen on QP is 7, and that was one of best players in game. Was last one alive and weak oppo players streamed in one by one to get a kill, from front.

Give IS single ball guns and IS quirks and std engine becomes viable choice.

For your viewing pleasure.

Although you need to show me the guy that told you the EXE is a bad mech..

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

Repasy Cooper, on 06 September 2016 - 04:09 AM, said:

I eat Kodiaks for breakfast in my Warhawk. CT is easy to target.

Unless you were in the atlas imitation WHK-B (that somehow managed to arrive magically unhurt) against a non Spirit Bear , you can literally not win a fight against a kodiak at any range, assuming equal player skill.

Forgive me for thinking you're exaggerating badly if you tell me you do it regularly.

Let's also not forget what an impressively hard time the WHK-B has trying to close for a brawl which is the reason so many people run LRMs on a warhawk.

[Widowmaker1981]

S T I N G S, on 01 September 2016 - 03:15 PM, said:

Nerf the Kodiak or buff the Cyclops one of the two

SLEIPNIR

Thank me later. With 55% acc/dec quirks that thing handles like a fast heavy, with some pretty damn nice dakka.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

von Haudegen, on 06 September 2016 - 05:28 AM, said:

And I don´t think PGI do it for the Pay For Win reason. The Rifleman, Archer and Phoenixhawk are..... mediocre at best.. no one need them. They are subprime mechs. The opposite of OP. Some PHX are really bad crappy junksmechs (look at the heros... why should anyone pay money for this mess?)

The Rifleman is actually not a bad mech at all. It's just not "great"

justcallme A S H, on 06 September 2016 - 04:43 PM, said:

How do you figure that?

A Black Knight is now TALLER than both an Atlas and Kodiak. Weapon mounts effectively lower as a result and a wider CT.

It got absolutely smashed in the rescale (and quirk nerf at the same time) along with many other IS mechs

It can still put out good performances, has great hitboxes and engine range. Solid T2.

I do agree that what happened to it was unfair, but no more than what happened to the Blackjack, and definitely not that bad compared to WLF, FS9, JR7, JR7-IIC, PNT.

The GRF was nearly warhammer size pre rescale, and post rescale nothing changed. It's still a great mech, dominating the short-range side of it, but honestly? What else can it do? The sparky is decent, but the 1S and 1N come NOWHERE near the 2N and the 3M, which is a damn shame.

*Apologies for ranting*

[DivBy0]

XL-Engine and Ammo in the arm... do you really know what you are talking about?
Is this a kind of trolling :-(

Widowmaker1981, on 07 September 2016 - 06:45 AM, said:

SLEIPNIR

Thank me later. With 55% acc/dec quirks that thing handles like a fast heavy, with some pretty damn nice dakka.

[Surn]

If you are arguing that Kodiaks are not op, you might be a selfish, delusional, hack. I say that with respect, but check yourself...serously.

[Widowmaker1981]

von Haudegen, on 07 September 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

XL-Engine and Ammo in the arm... do you really know what you are talking about?
Is this a kind of trolling :-(

Arm ammo is used first, so no problems there (because the other UAC5 ammo is in the legs/head).

No point using the Cyclops without an XL, its just a worse Mauler at that point because you cant use the engine cap.

[SlightlyMobileTurret]

von Haudegen, on 07 September 2016 - 06:55 AM, said:

XL-Engine and Ammo in the arm... do you really know what you are talking about?
Is this a kind of trolling :-(

I've put 5 tons of ammo in my Dire Wolf's right arm. It blew up once in over a hundred games. I guess I was trolling too hard to notice.

XL engines- Ever run into a warhammer? Black Knight? Battlemasters? BNC-3Ms? (AWS-9Ms?) Quickdraws?

Do you really think all these mechs are troll mechs? All the mechs I've listed (with the exception of the AWS) have been or ARE T1 in GMan's Tier list.

Sometimes the mobility is just worth it. On his build, you would struggle to fit a STD310 going ~60 kph while his XL375 takes him to ~73. On a 90 ton assault, that matters.

Edited by Keshav Murali, 07 September 2016 - 07:05 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

Keshav Murali, on 07 September 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

I've put 5 tons of ammo in my Dire Wolf's right arm. It blew up once in over a hundred games. I guess I was trolling too hard to notice.

XL engines- Ever run into a warhammer? Black Knight? Battlemasters? BNC-3Ms? (AWS-9Ms?) Quickdraws?

Do you really think all these mechs are troll mechs? All the mechs I've listed (with the exception of the AWS) have been or ARE T1 in GMan's Tier list.

Sometimes the mobility is just worth it. On his build, you would struggle to fit a STD310 going ~60 kph while his XL375 takes him to ~73. On a 90 ton assault, that matters.

Not to mention that if you want a 60kph dakka assault, bring a Mauler with either 5AC5 or 4xUAC5. Its got far better weapon quirks.

[DivBy0]

Your point make sense. I will try it. thx

Widowmaker1981, on 07 September 2016 - 07:01 AM, said:

Arm ammo is used first, so no problems there (because the other UAC5 ammo is in the legs/head).

No point using the Cyclops without an XL, its just a worse Mauler at that point because you cant use the engine cap.

[DivBy0]

Dire Wolf has CASE in the arm. But in this point you are right. Ammo critchance is low.

And XL I run only in BLK. Every other mech loose his durability. And maybe a Top! (I mean not Tier 1) Pilot can drive them but who tank the damage when in your assaults and heavys are XL-Engines? Who is left to go first around the corner? Would the IS-XL not explode after loss of one part... many problems were solved.

I wish this would work for me, because your statement make sense.

Keshav Murali, on 07 September 2016 - 07:04 AM, said:

I've put 5 tons of ammo in my Dire Wolf's right arm. It blew up once in over a hundred games. I guess I was trolling too hard to notice.

XL engines- Ever run into a warhammer? Black Knight? Battlemasters? BNC-3Ms? (AWS-9Ms?) Quickdraws?

Do you really think all these mechs are troll mechs? All the mechs I've listed (with the exception of the AWS) have been or ARE T1 in GMan's Tier list.

Sometimes the mobility is just worth it. On his build, you would struggle to fit a STD310 going ~60 kph while his XL375 takes him to ~73. On a 90 ton assault, that matters.

Edited by von Haudegen, 07 September 2016 - 07:42 AM.

[Widowmaker1981]

von Haudegen, on 07 September 2016 - 07:41 AM, said:

Dire Wolf has CASE in the arm. But in this point you are right. Ammo critchance is low.

And XL I run only in BLK. Every other mech loose his durability. And maybe a Top! (I mean not Tier 1) Pilot can drive them but who tank the damage when in your assaults and heavys are XL-Engines? Who is left to go first around the corner? Would the IS-XL not explode after loss of one part... many problems were solved.

I wish this would work for me, because your statement make sense.

Actually, in many cases, like the Banshee for example, survivability goes UP with an XL engine because the extra agility allows you to twist damage about, where with a small standard you just end up with fresh STs and no CT because you cant react to incoming damage and its an assault so has big hitboxes. most people aim centre mass to ensure hits. I was the one of the first people to start using XL Banshees, and i tested it extensively - i lasted longer and survived more often in a 4xLPL XL400 BNC-3M than i did in the same build swapped for a STD325.

There is also the fact that most STD engine mech loses half its guns once a ST is gone, and from then until the end of the game they are only as useful as a horribly under-engined medium. Sure, certain mechs are good for running a dead shield side with a STD - and thats how you run those mechs.

To be honest, early game mobility and firepower are almost always worth more overall than the ability to be half a mech - the extra firepower, along with extra speed to get the firepower where it is needed and agility to put it where you want it, easily outweighs what you contribute in a STD engine mech after losing the first ST. XLs are almost always the better choice. (with the obvious exceptions - the Stalker should never, ever have an XL, it simply cannot make use of the tonnage due to slot limitations)

Edited by Widowmaker1981, 07 September 2016 - 08:26 AM.