131 replies to this topic

[Gentleman Reaper]

Alienized, on 04 September 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

as long as i cant see a advantage of using mixed/hybrid loadouts compared to stuped boating i wont give ED a chance.

What if ED was mixed with a fixed 30 heat cap? Heat cap provides a huge barrier to firing multiple weapons together, so mixed builds thrive since boats are forced to limit their spam, while energy draw balances Gauss and autocannons, which have always been issues in previous MW games, the fixed cap lessens the gap between lighter and heavier mechs, while staying accurate to lore. This means that ED can remain relatively unchanged, since it wouldn't limit much that the heat cap wouldn't (aside from ballistics), the only thing PGI would need to do is remove the heat cap increase on Heat sinks.

This is by far the most faultless system I've seen, while simultaneously requiring the least amount of changes, and PGI gets to keep ED.

[Alienized]

Gentleman Reaper, on 04 September 2016 - 10:02 AM, said:

What if ED was mixed with a fixed 30 heat cap? Heat cap provides a huge barrier to firing multiple weapons together, so mixed builds thrive since boats are forced to limit their spam, while energy draw balances Gauss and autocannons, which have always been issues in previous MW games, the fixed cap lessens the gap between lighter and heavier mechs, while staying accurate to lore. This means that ED can remain relatively unchanged, since it wouldn't limit much that the heat cap wouldn't (aside from ballistics), the only thing PGI would need to do is remove the heat cap increase on Heat sinks.

This is by far the most faultless system I've seen, while simultaneously requiring the least amount of changes, and PGI gets to keep ED.

and what would that mean for mechs like the victor?
im talking about this specifically because bringing lighter mechs closer to the heavier ones will suffer it just as much as having a 30 dmg barrier or limiting alphastrikes.
(aside from the fact that the victor needs attention on literally every level)

[AnTi90d]

In Battletech:

Running a mech too hot can cause pilot damage.
Running a mech too hot causes ammo explosions which causes pilot damage.
Being critically hit in the ammo causes ammo explosions which causes pilot damge.
Being critically hit in the gauss rifle causes ammo explosions which causes pilot damage.

So, just tie ammo/gauss explosions to cockpit structural damage and have ammo cook off when overheating.

Then, a 30-32 hard heat cap could work without any further PGI-magically-invented-noncanon-BS-mechanics.

[Gentleman Reaper]

Alienized, on 04 September 2016 - 10:12 AM, said:

and what would that mean for mechs like the victor?
im talking about this specifically because bringing lighter mechs closer to the heavier ones will suffer it just as much as having a 30 dmg barrier or limiting alphastrikes.
(aside from the fact that the victor needs attention on literally every level)

The victor suffers because it's forced to rely on mixed builds, which can't measure up to boats because of their their poorly-synced weapons. If a 30 heat cap forces boats to fire less at once, then mixed builds have a better opportunity to get the most out of their weapons. The issue with the current cap is that because there's so much room to build up heat, boats can whittle down mixed builds before they need to cool-off, this effect being further multiplied by the large player count, which allows mech to alternate fire while the others cool down.

[Alienized]

Gentleman Reaper, on 04 September 2016 - 10:31 AM, said:

The victor suffers because it's forced to rely on mixed builds, which can't measure up to boats because of their their poorly-synced weapons. If a 30 heat cap forces boats to fire less at once, then mixed builds have a better opportunity to get the most out of their weapons. The issue with the current cap is that because there's so much room to build up heat, boats can whittle down mixed builds before they need to cool-off, this effect being further multiplied by the large player count, which allows mech to alternate fire while the others cool down.

and thats why im not sure if ED is actually working better than ghost heat.
the mixed loadouts work well currently. it isnt easy to use but doable. if ED is a making mixed loadouts even WORSE than theres no point in implementing ED since we can just leave stuff as it is.

[nehebkau]

Alienized, on 04 September 2016 - 07:09 AM, said:

well, theres a event.
the second while PTS is on.
OFC no one is there because.. event?

Yes,
This pisses me off so farking much! PGI needs to get it together -- you want testers then don't have a darn event.

[Imperius]

nehebkau, on 04 September 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

Yes,
This pisses me off so farking much! PGI needs to get it together -- you want testers then don't have a darn event.

Nope it really does come down to the average potato doesn't care.

[Andi Nagasia]

nehebkau, on 04 September 2016 - 12:55 PM, said:

This pisses me off so farking much! PGI needs to get it together -- you want testers then don't have a darn event.

sadly the problem is if they didnt have an event, someone would say...
''i hate the PTS, when ever ones active we never get an event!!!

[BLOOD WOLF]

Andi Nagasia, on 04 September 2016 - 01:21 PM, said:

sadly the problem is if they didnt have an event, someone would say...
''i hate the PTS, when ever ones active we never get an event!!!

That made me chuckle a bit. I remember someone saying something like that on a thread

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 September 2016 - 01:34 PM.

[Navid A1]

Andi Nagasia, on 04 September 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

think its kinda funny,

PGI puts things on the PTS and is activly listening to Player Feed Back and Changing things Every Week,
and Players are complaining that PGI never listens and is driving MWO into the Ground?

look around, PGI is listening,
-=-

(Player A) but PGI took away Gauss Charge and made CERPPCs 15Damage!!! 2Gauss+2CERPPC OP OP OP!!!

(Me) have you tested it yet to see what happens if you fire all 4 at the same time?

(Player A) well no but on live you can fire all 4 & nothing happens this is just like that but at +10Damage OP OP OP!!!

(Me) firing 2Gauss+2CERPPC will lead to Instant Shutdown with ED, also thats 7sec before they can do anything,

(Player A) well how am i supposed to know how the system works!!!

(Me) get on and test it? or read up on how it works from those who have?

(Player A) ya no i have better things to do than to Spend my time on something that may not even make it to live,

(Me) Sigh, then dont Complain until you read up on how it works or play it,

-=-
this is the problem with the Community,
but as long as those of up Playing the PTS and Puting forth Ideas are still listened to,
Perhaps we will get a Better and more Complete Systems after all,
Edit-

Andi... that is not exactly listening to feedback... or feedback at all.

People on these forums have been asking for a 30 heat cap with 0.2 DHS for 4 years on a PTS. I'm not saying it is a good or bad idea... But not only they did not do that... they did not even acknowledge that such a feedback exists... let alone giving any comments.

With ED, PGI is pretty much decided on everything. They are just tuning numbers... they are doing what they "Feel" is right... its obvious that their feeling may be similar to some of the community (even PGI can understand common sense sometimes)

PGI always comes up with an idea that nobody asked for and goes all "My precious" mindset about it and no one should ever be allowed to challenge it.
They did the same last december with their laser optimal range with lock idea in a PTS. The backlash was so massive that they pulled the idea..
but they were so upset that their idea was rejected that they pulled every other positive features (with tons of positive feedback) as well... like some kind of personal revenge or something.

I don't know how many of you remember that specific ton hall where Russ was asked by NGNG about the poordub/Truedub situation on light mechs with sub-250 engine... (after a year of begging NGNG to ask the question)
After NGNG asked the question, Russ did not even know what was going on... he said that he is hearing it for the first time, and it is new to him.
it was one of the biggest WTF moment in the history of mankind!... In the past 3 years, You could spend 30 seconds on the forums and you could know about this issue... but forums is not where the community feedback is gathered.
So... did they do anything about this after they were "informed about it"???... HELL NO is the answer... the thing they did was nerfing the kitfox by replacing its heatgen quirk with a tiny heat loss rate quirk which made the mech even hotter.
And it has been a case closed ever since.


The current ED situation is like going to a restaurant and ordering and receiving a random meal... but they are giving you a choice on the sauce and seasoning on it.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Navid A1, on 04 September 2016 - 01:50 PM, said:

Andi... that is not exactly listening to feedback... or feedback at all.

People on these forums have been asking for a 30 heat cap with 0.2 DHS for 4 years on a PTS. I'm not saying it is a good or bad idea... But not only they did not do that... they did not even acknowledge that such a feedback exists... let alone giving any comments.

With ED, PGI is pretty much decided on everything. They are just tuning numbers... they are doing what they "Feel" is right... its obvious that their feeling may be similar to some of the community (even PGI can understand common sense sometimes)

PGI always comes up with an idea that nobody asked for and goes all "My precious" mindset about it and no one should ever be allowed to challenge it.
They did the same last december with their laser optimal range with lock idea in a PTS. The backlash was so massive that they pulled the idea..
but they were so upset that their idea was rejected that they pulled every other positive features (with tons of positive feedback) as well... like some kind of personal revenge or something.

I don't know how many of you remember that specific ton hall where Russ was asked by NGNG about the poordub/Truedub situation on light mechs with sub-250 engine... (after a year of begging NGNG to ask the question)
After NGNG asked the question, Russ did not even know what was going on... he said that he is hearing it for the first time, and it is new to him.
it was one of the biggest WTF moment in the history of mankind!... In the past 3 years, You could spend 30 seconds on the forums and you could know about this issue... but forums is not where the community feedback is gathered.
So... did they do anything about this after they were "informed about it"???... HELL NO is the answer... the thing they did was nerfing the kitfox by replacing its heatgen quirk with a tiny heat loss rate quirk which made the mech even hotter.
And it has been a case closed ever since.


The current ED situation is like going to a restaurant and ordering and receiving a random meal... but they are giving you a choice on the sauce and seasoning on it.

The whole problem with you're post is that you end it with a total mis-characterization of ED. If you can't even objectively evaluate something that is in the test server and actually give valid evidence for your claims. How do we know anything else you say is accurate?

We can actually have a conversation about the pro's and con's but that can't happen until you stop poisoning the well.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 September 2016 - 02:08 PM.

[Navid A1]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 September 2016 - 02:02 PM, said:

The whole problem with you're post is that you end it with a total mis-characterization of ED. If you can't even objectively evaluate something that is in the test server and actually give valid evidence for your claims. How do we know anything else you say is accurate?

We can actually have a conversation about the pro's and con's but that can't happen until you stop poisoning the well.

It is not poisoning the well.
I gave my feedback on the first iteration of the ED PTS.
Yet I saw, that PGI is already decided on the core of the ED mechanics, and is just tuning numbers.
I'm not worried about tuning numbers. Tuning is done over time the longer people play with it "in a 12v12" live environment. You can't tune over a week in 4v4 play. Tuning takes months of active gameplay.
I gave a few suggestions on PTS2 and PTS3, but that is about it.
Wake me up when PGI is willing to receive feedback on core mechanics.

Also, We had enough people jumping up and down out of joy like kids that PGI became confident that they actually did something epic.

Me?... I am already decided on what boats I'm gonna use (yes... 1 weapon type boats)
It would be fun watching the same ED fans complain about it here in 6 months.

Edited by Navid A1, 04 September 2016 - 02:25 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Navid A1, on 04 September 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

It is not poisoning the well.

okay

Navid A1, on 04 September 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

I gave my feedback on the first iteration of the ED PTS.
Yet I saw, that PGI is already decided on the core of the ED mechanics, and is just tuning numbers.
I'm not worried about tuning numbers. Tuning is done over time the longer people play with it "in a 12v12" live environment. You can't tune over a week in 4v4 play. Tuning takes months of active gameplay.
I gave a few suggestions on PTS2 and PTS3, but that is about it.
Wake me up when PGI is willing to receive feedback on core mechanics.

you gave your feedback on the first? Did they send you a message and reject you're feedback. If not, then you are making it sound that way.
"tuning the numbers". I do not get what you getting at? should they use magic or chants? Without reworking the whole heat system they are using the current system they have but applying a new method to tackle the current problem. The old system was a linear heat scale, while the new system just has a limit before penalty is applied. It's simple.

They are gonna spend months testing the new system, and they are just starting with 4v4. They are gonna run it for awhile so I don't really see why you have a problem here. Maybe your creating a problem that doesn't exist. If you are waiting for your self-defined "core mechanics" they are already here, so reason stands that you will keep making the same arguments no matter how many times they are rebuked.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 04 September 2016 - 02:33 PM, said:

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Dude.... the minute something is put in PTS it is done.

UI2.0. Case and point.

Darn you got me. Not gonna bother to respond to this one. He's to dang good.(sarcasm)

Sure UI2.0 wasnt perfect when it came out. Then again nothing is, unless you have some magical perfect game out there.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 September 2016 - 02:43 PM.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 04 September 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

UI 2.0 wasn't even sub par. It was awful when it came out and no amount of feedback in pts changed that.

Why should we have any faith it will be different here? Every time something was put in pts it was released just the way it was.

TALK TO THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN PLAYING AND ACTIVLY TESTING THE PTS

IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT

Alot of changes has been observed with the feedback. GO TO THE PTS THREADS AND READ FOR ONCE.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 September 2016 - 03:19 PM.

[Navid A1]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 September 2016 - 02:39 PM, said:

you gave your feedback on the first? Did they send you a message and reject you're feedback. If not, then you are making it sound that way.
"tuning the numbers". I do not get what you getting at? should they use magic or chants? Without reworking the whole heat system they are using the current system they have but applying a new method to tackle the current problem. The old system was a linear heat scale, while the new system just has a limit before penalty is applied. It's simple.

They are gonna spend months testing the new system, and they are just starting with 4v4. They are gonna run it for awhile so I don't really see why you have a problem here. Maybe your creating a problem that doesn't exist. If you are waiting for your self-defined "core mechanics" they are already here, so reason stands that you will keep making the same arguments no matter how many times they are rebuked.

Rejection letter?... hehe, no man, PGI does not really care that much.

Let me clarify here: I think ED is a train-wreck... I will give feedback on fine tuning the weapon stats. But It won't stop me from stating what I think about ED... a train-wreck.

Its the approach they are using... all they did was presenting a new mechanic, as final and ultimate decision and they want to tune the numbers (which they are doing in a hit and miss way).

We all will adapt to the new system as we did when ghost heat arrived.... Weapons stats will find their sweet spot once again with the help of community feedback.... But ED is here to stay, and community had nothing to do with its creation!

[BLOOD WOLF]

Marack Drock the Unicorn Wizard, on 04 September 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

I played PTS {Frak}.

okay, step one.

step 2, have you bounced your ideas around with other people? have you accounted their feedback against your own? were you hurt that your specific feedback might not have been reflected?

we might have a chance to proceed to step 3

Navid A1, on 04 September 2016 - 03:19 PM, said:

But ED is here to stay, and community had nothing to do with its creation!

I'm done, I am not going to keep going back years in the forums every-time somebody says frankly un-true statements like this. Are you serious?????????????? please tell me you're just having a bit of fun

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 September 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[Navid A1]

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 September 2016 - 03:18 PM, said:

TALK TO THE PLAYERS WHO HAVE BEEN PLAYING AND ACTIVLY TESTING THE PTS

IT'S NOT THAT DIFFICULT

Alot of changes has been observed with the feedback. GO TO THE PTS THREADS AND READ FOR ONCE.

6xMG spider is not pleased with your behaviour.
You will be dealt with like the back of an atlas!

BLOOD WOLF, on 04 September 2016 - 03:23 PM, said:

I'm done, I am not going to keep going back years in the forums every-time somebody says frankly ignorant statements like this. Are you serious?????????????? please tell me you're just having a bit of fun

You want me to count the threads about doing 30 heat cap and heat penalties too?
Not seeing any of those happening... do we?

Edited by Navid A1, 04 September 2016 - 03:28 PM.

[RestosIII]

Navid A1, on 04 September 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

6xMG spider is not pleased with your behaviour.
You will be dealt with like the back of an atlas!




You want me to count the threads about doing 30 heat cap and heat penalties too?
Not seeing any of those happening... do we?

Hi.

[BLOOD WOLF]

Navid A1, on 04 September 2016 - 03:28 PM, said:

6xMG spider is not pleased with your behaviour.
You will be dealt with like the back of an atlas!




You want me to count the threads about doing 30 heat cap and heat penalties too?
Not seeing any of those happening... do we?

So now they just accept and do everything??? why not have multiple systems, players can choose which ones they want to use.

All ideas surely can not be picked. That would be impossible, nor can all ideas be necessary or compatible.

Edited by BLOOD WOLF, 04 September 2016 - 03:31 PM.