96 replies to this topic

[RAM]

R&R worked and worked well. Unfortunately people are lazy and it is easier to whine than to get better.

Risk vs Reward: your tricked out Assault provides an advantage and if you fail should have a disadvantage.

eSport > Sim


RAM
ELH

[Novakaine]

New players should start off with four free mechs.
One of each class.
Inner Sphere or Clanker mechs.
Hehe "Clankers"
Which give would them the opportunity to learn each class and find which one they like.
PGI stands to gain more by giving that away in the long run.

Edited by Novakaine, 23 August 2016 - 08:07 PM.

[Dino Banino]

Novakaine, on 23 August 2016 - 08:05 PM, said:

New players should start off with four free mechs.
One of each class.
Inner Sphere or Clanker mechs.
Hehe "Clankers"
Which give would them the opportunity to learn each class and find which one they like.
PGI stands to gain more by giving that away in the long run.

You're the fella that doesn't support using Stock builds. But, you support R&R. Interesting. Very interesting.

[jweltsch]

RR just doesnt work for qp. Now for fp, they should have divorced it from qp money entirely and set up fp like eve onlines zero sec warfare. Make planets WORTH MONEY. Make fielding mechs COST money. Now you have decisions to make, is it worth it to field expensive mechs to take a crappy planet? nope. You would also see some economics take effect and fp would actually have meaning and be fun.

[LordNothing]

i like how pgi can take an idea that was great in every other mechwarrior game, and turn it into an utter abomination.

[Mechwarrior1441491]

jweltsch, on 23 August 2016 - 10:21 PM, said:

RR just doesnt work for qp. Now for fp, they should have divorced it from qp money entirely and set up fp like eve onlines zero sec warfare. Make planets WORTH MONEY. Make fielding mechs COST money. Now you have decisions to make, is it worth it to field expensive mechs to take a crappy planet? nope. You would also see some economics take effect and fp would actually have meaning and be fun.

A bold move like that, including detailed logistics could save the game mode and draw in new players who want to see the so called "thinking" in MWO being declared a Thinking Mans Shooter.

Consumables being part of the supply of a planet, running low. Units have a manufacturing base, where they "produce" supply with credits, based on the level of their manufacturing ability. Supply could be consumables and mech supplies. Loyalists obviously have the best manufacturing ability.

Perhaps even let people lockout mechs they have for a certain amount of time to add mech supply to a planet in their area of operation.

I would even go so far as to place factional lore units on the map and we the players assign ourselves to their efforts. Loyalist players can move those units around for various effects. Those units can be reduced and must be returned to the pool to regenerate back to combat efficiency.

WW2Online has divisions on the map where you assign your soldier. This would rein in map jumping. Hopefully push most units to be Loyalist as Mercs don't have a real impact with heavily reduced supply options.

I also advocate Faction Warfare only weapons. Weapon Salvage and Clan use by IS. If the item is destroyed, it's lost. Not for use in Quick play.

Edited by Mechwarrior1441491, 24 August 2016 - 12:19 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

FupDup, on 23 August 2016 - 01:36 PM, said:

The short list:

• Punishes experimentation with new builds because if the build doesn't turn out that good, you just lost a bunch of money.
  
• Punishes players who tank damage for their teammates, because they have to pay C-Bills for it.
  
• Rewards cowardly players who stay at the back because they don't have to pay as much for repair bills.
  
• Punishes the use of all ballistic and missile weapons; makes players want to only use energy weapons so that they don't have to pay rearming bills.
  
• Attempts to justify the idea that bigger mechs should be superior at all times and circumstances, because they cost more to maintain.
  
• Hurt the new player experience massively by making newbs unable to buy anything that can compete with the decked-out veterans being dropped on the enemy team.
  
• People who paid money for Premium Time, Hero Mechs, and/or C-Bill Packs would have superior combat options over players who do not pay money for those things. Pay-2-Win.

It basically didn't add anything to the game other than "immersing" some grognards.

And yet of these things, 5 of them are still present in different form... Progress!

[Kotzi]

Ye, no thanks. We dont need artificial time and "money" sinks. PGI should just add some random numbers in the addition at the end of each match calling them R&R. Why do people want more grind? R&R wont change player skills at all.

[JC Daxion]

627, on 23 August 2016 - 01:33 PM, said:

because it was a tax for losing, added nothing to the gameplay and decreased the viable weapon loadouts yiu could bring to a fight. You didn't dare to lose a big XL engine, you would lose money if you die, even with a win.

Pretty much..

BUT it should make it into the PVE game

[Kmieciu]

RAM, on 23 August 2016 - 08:01 PM, said:

R&R worked and worked well. Unfortunately people are lazy and it is easier to whine than to get better.

Risk vs Reward: your tricked out Assault provides an advantage and if you fail should have a disadvantage.

RAM
ELH

Sorry but no. R&R did not work well at all. Remember "welfare ammo"? 75% of the ammo was replenished for free. I just took 10 tonnes of LRM ammo and never payed for reloads. Just dropped with 1350 missiles instead of 1800.
Engine and weapon repair? Why bother? They worked the same, no matter how badly damaged they were. I just repaired torso armor and structure on my Atlas and rained LRMs while other players tanked for me.
Made insane amounts of C-Bills. A couple of million every match.

Edited by Kmieciu, 24 August 2016 - 12:37 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Kmieciu, on 24 August 2016 - 12:36 AM, said:

Sorry but no. R&R did not work well at all. Remember "welfare ammo"? 75% of the ammo was replenished for free. I just took 10 tonnes of LRM ammo and never payed for reloads. Just dropped with 1350 missiles instead of 1800.
Engine and weapon repair? Why bother? They worked the same, no matter how badly damaged they were. I just repaired torso armor and structure on my Atlas and rained LRMs while other players tanked for me.
Made insane amounts of C-Bills. A couple of million every match.

Exactly this was the issue - but instead of changing it from "75 for free and 25 for fee" to "4 for the price of 1"
People would not have been able to circumvent repair and rearm costs
Of course repair and rearm cost would have needed another system because the CBT costs are for new equipment - repair doesn't cost as much.
Its a tradgedy on its own that PGI says they love BT but are unable to read some core rule books.
Afaik there are three systems that could be used for repair and rearm inculding salvage - and non of it would need c-bills.

[DrxAbstract]

Karl Streiger, on 24 August 2016 - 12:45 AM, said:

Exactly this was the issue - but instead of changing it from "75 for free and 25 for fee" to "4 for the price of 1"
People would not have been able to circumvent repair and rearm costs
Of course repair and rearm cost would have needed another system because the CBT costs are for new equipment - repair doesn't cost as much.
Its a tradgedy on its own that PGI says they love BT but are unable to read some core rule books.
Afaik there are three systems that could be used for repair and rearm inculding salvage - and non of it would need c-bills.

I wouldnt mind a chance to be rewarded with weapons/equipment at the end of the match from pieces of Mechs I've been credited with blowing off...

Take out a side torso with an arm full of stuff attached? Cha-Ching!

[Davers]

Johnny Z, on 23 August 2016 - 06:07 PM, said:

Repair and Rearm could add a lot to the game.

Some players have mentioned down time until a mech is repaired. I like it. A lot.

What about new players? Well they can log off until repairs are done or something else, or buy more mechs. I don't know but its a good idea and if it helps sell a few more mechs than awesome.

If it deters not participating in matches even better.

Have repairs be able to speed up with c bills and mc and have engineering crew that can be lvled up. This is common sense how to do it and it would be awesome.

Details? Way over me head.

The ideas I mentioned above are from other players mostly by the way. Great ideas.

LoL, the one time everyone agrees with PGI you have to go and take the opposite stance.

If you can't realize that having new players log off and wait for repairs is the worst idea possible...

R&R would require a complete rebalancing of the entire game. Especially since things like DHS literally equals more Cbills per match.

[oldradagast]

Repair and rearm was a lousy features that punished people for playing the game, rewarded doing everything possible to avoid damage, punished new players without money, discouraged many builds because of the R&R costs, and encouraged nutty things like running mechs with insane amounts of ammo for the free 75% rearm, etc.

It added nothing to the game experience and was only loved by people who either enjoying playing with spreadsheets or smugly lording over "bads" who "got rekted" game after game, thus losing money and being more likely therefore to lose the next game.

[oldradagast]

Pjwned, on 23 August 2016 - 05:19 PM, said:

How would you deal with poor, inexperienced players using crappy mechs getting demolished by rich veterans using godly mechs? I'm not expecting a good answer but maybe either of you can humor me.

Unless of course the goal is to allow exactly that to happen, in which case you would be saying goodbye to the vast majority of the player population.

Yes, that's what they expect to happen. Then, they'll come to these forums and complain about "stupid noobs" on their team while at the same time demanding game mechanics that punish new players and keep them poor and locked into crappy mechs that can't contribute in an environment full of rich players with fully customized and leveled mechs. It is amazing the number of people who support game mechanics that literally serve no other purpose but to cripple somebody else so they can feel superior. Also witness the endless demands for no match-making in CW so PUG's are pitted against 12-mans, etc.

Edited by oldradagast, 24 August 2016 - 03:26 AM.

[Raven Mendes]

patataman, on 23 August 2016 - 02:11 PM, said:

I liked R&R. Using expensive equipment and doing poorly had a tax. That's correct, and imho using state of the art tech and doing poorly should be bad for your wallet.

On the other hand, using cheap equipment and doing poorly was a lot cheaper, and promoted the use of lights and mediums with STD engines and without endo and ferro upgrades. That way you could earn money even in mediocre matches.

Imagine cheap mediums being the work horses of the inner sphere... that smells like lore...

Exactly this, i remember people using only energy due, it doesnt require ammo... so less expensive, back old days...

the only way this would work its only Repairs, which in theory would punish those would did bad strategic moves..

Edited by Raven Mendes, 24 August 2016 - 04:13 AM.

[Kotzi]

Or have the bad luck of getting placed in "special" teams 10 times in a row. Because there is only so much you can do as 1/12 of a team.

EDIT: And dont you tell me you never had such a streak.

Edited by Kotzi, 24 August 2016 - 04:51 AM.

[Zolaz]

Surats couldnt play, complained ... got it removed. Arcade mode greater than immersion in PGI's Big Stompy Robit Game.

[Karl Streiger]

I always payed my dept - and i was really really mean with my ammunition. Don't know how often I declined to fire my ALRMs at a called prime target.

when things went down - i may had to pilot my Commandos for some time - but this didn't happen very often

[Tarl Cabot]

I would like the R&R feature to be have been kept and redone but that ship has sailed. Why? Because of PGI/IGP's approach to the game. CW/FP is not the centerpiece of the game as originally presented. PQ/GQ is not an actual part nor do I see it ever being part of CW/FP, but kept as a separate entity all by itself.

Edited by Tarl Cabot, 24 August 2016 - 03:55 PM.