Jump to content

Updates To Energy Draw Pts 23-Aug-2016


303 replies to this topic

#1 InnerSphereNews

    Member

  • Developer
  • Developer
  • 2,858 posts

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:06 PM



Greetings MechWarriors,

The Energy Draw Public Test Server is being updated with a number of value adjustments based on feedback, discussions, and additional testing since the Energy Draw PTS began on August 18th.
As highlighted in the original Energy Draw PTS post we want to stress that the values and features you'll see in this PTS, including any updates to it, are all subject to feedback and change. The Energy Draw system will not be placed onto the Live servers until it is determined to represent an improvement over the existing Heat Scale mechanics already present on the Live servers.

Heat Penalty Changes

We have increased the base Heat Penalty incurred when exceeding your Energy allotment. Again, we want to remind everyone that these are still test values, and are subject to change prior to any potential release.

Heat Penalty has been increased to 1 point of Heat for every point of Energy over which you have exceeded your Current 'Mech Energy Value.
For example, exceeding your Current 'Mech Energy Value by 10 Energy would incur a Heat Penalty of 10 Heat.
This is an increase from the original PTS Heat Penalty of 0.5 Heat for every point of Energy.


Override Damage

Damage received from Override no longer applies to the Head.


Weapon Energy Value Changes

AutoCannon's

Feedback received based on the original PTS values indicated that full-damage, single-projectile weapons were slightly imbalanced when compared against duration-based weaponry. As a result we have applied a 20% increase in Energy Consumption for the AC weaponry listed below, including a same 20% increase in Energy Consumption for all other full-damage, single projectile weapons (details for those listed elsewhere in this post). We have also set all LB-X AC weaponry to follow the correct Energy per Damage ratio outlined in the original PTS post.

All LB-X AC Weaponry
• All LB-X AC weaponry has been set to the correct .75 Energy per 1 point of Damage ratio.

AC/2
• Energy Consumption increased to 2.4 Energy total (from 2)

AC/5
Energy Consumption increased to 6 Energy total (from 5)

AC/10
Energy Consumption increased to 12 Energy Total (from 10)

U-AC/5
• Energy Consumption increased to 6 Energy total (from 5)

C-AC/2
• Energy Consumption increased to 2.4 Energy total (from 2)

C-AC/5
• Energy Consumption increased to 6 Energy total (from 5)

C-U-AC/2
• Energy Consumption increased to 2.4 Energy total (from 2)

C-U-AC/5
Energy Consumption increased to 6 Energy total (from 5)


AC 20's and LB-X 20's

We've received a lot of feedback specifically calling for lower Energy Consumption values for close-range, brawl-focused weaponry. However, we ultimately felt that factoring in both weapon ranges and weapon projectile types would have caused too large an adjustment, and would lead to some undesirable results with certain weapons; particularly when many close range weapons are still proving to be quite potent with the current PTS values.

That said, we are looking at improved DPS as being the defining trait for close range, brawl-focused weaponry. We've made some adjustments to AC/20's with that approach in mind.

AC/20
• Energy Consumption increased to 24 Energy total (from 20).
• Cooldown duration lowered to 4s (from 4.6s).

C-AC/20
• Cooldown Duration lowered to 4s (from 4.6s)

C-LBX/20
• Cooldown Duration lowered to 4s (from 4.6s)

C-U-AC/20
• Cooldown Duration lowered to 4s (from 4.6s)
• Heat Generation lowered to 6 (from 7)

Clan Lasers

Although their power and efficacy has been reduced in previous balance changes, Clan Laser tech is inherently very powerful. While many have called for a simple reduction to their Energy Consumption in the context of the Energy Draw PTS, we feel that giving the Clan Lasers some of their inherent power back is better suited to what these weapons should represent, and how they should be distinguished from their Inner Sphere counterparts.

Clan ER Medium Laser
• Max Range increased to 770m (from 688m)
• Duration decreased to 1.05s (from 1.15s)

Clan ER Large Laser
• Duration decreased to 1.35s (from 1.5s)

Clan Medium Pulse Laser
• Max Range increased to 594m (from 561m)
• Duration decreased to .7s (from .85s) Contrary to the original text, now struck through, the Clan Medium Pulse Laser Duration was not adjusted in this PTS update. It is still .85s.

SRM's

Some of the feedback we've received regarding SRM behavior on the PTS has trended toward a desire to simultaneously fire 4xSRM6. This feedback makes sense, given the number and viability of Loadouts using 4xSRM6 configurations and the role they can play in brawling. However, testing has shown this weapon to be relatively on-target in its efficacy based on its existing values in the PTS.

That said, we are going to explore some options in this PTS update to help justify 4xSRM6 loadouts within the context of the Energy Draw system. To that end we have decreased Energy Consumption for SRM 6 and C-SRM 6 weaponry. However, these Energy reductions must come with a trade-off. To that end we have increased Missile Spread for all SRM 6's and SRM 4's by 20%.

A 20% increase to Missile Spread will look (approximately) like this:



The inner circle is the existing Missile Spread. The outer circle is the new Missile Spread.

Applying this Missile Spread increase to SRM 6's necessitates that the Missile Spread for SRM 4's also be increased, to help maintain sufficient balance between the two weapon systems. However, the increase to SRM 4 Missile Spread does not increase its overall Spread by a large enough degree to require a similar reduction to its Energy Consumption.

Keep in mind that further changes may be forthcoming as we continue working toward adequate SRM balance, within the context of Energy Draw.

SRM 6
• Energy Consumption decreased to 7.5 Energy total (from 9)
• Missile Spread increased by 20%

C-SRM 6
• Energy Consumption decreased to 7.5 Energy total (from 9)
• Missile Spread increased by 20%

SRM 4
• Missile Spread increased by 20%

C-SRM 4
• Missile Spread increased by 20%

PPC's

On the existing PTS build PPC weaponry is testing a bit stronger in the context of Energy Draw than we want them to be. To compensate for this some of their values have been tuned to bring them more in line with the other mid-to-long-range options. Their Energy Consumption has also been increased to account for the changes to Direct Fire weaponry outlined elsewhere in this post.

PPC
• Energy Consumption increased to 12 Energy total (from 10)
• Cooldown Duration increased to 5.25s (from 4.6s)
• Heat Generation increased to 10 (from 9.5)

ERPPC
• Energy Consumption increased to 12 (from 10)
• Cooldown Duration increased to 5.25s (from 4.6s)
• Heat Generation increased to 15 (from 14)

C-ERPPC
• Energy Consumption increased to 15 (from 13.5)
• Cooldown Duration increased to 5.25s (from 4.6s)
• Heat Generation increased to 15 (from 14)

Gauss Rifles

Testing on the existing PTS has shown that players are utilizing Gauss Rifles as a way to supplement their volley damage and offset their Heat Penalties. This use-case disrupts the overall goals we are aiming to achieve with the implementation of Energy Draw. Changes to Gauss Rifles have therefore been made to help reinforce the tactical loop outlined in the original PTS announcement post.

Our goal is to have the base values of Gauss Rifle weaponry reward players who strive to learn and master the Energy Draw system through in-game actions, rather than raw Loadouts. During the investigation of potential changes to Gauss Rifles we saw an opportunity to further differentiate the larger, heaver Inner Sphere Gauss Rifles from their Clan counterparts, without affecting their offensive characteristics.

Gauss Rifle
• Energy Consumption increased to 20 (from 15)
• Component Health increased to 10 (from 5)

C-Gauss Rifle
• Energy Consumption increased to 20 (from 15)
• Explosion Chance increased to 100% (from 90%)


#2 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:11 PM

Yea... no.

Oh well... more testing to be had I guess.

#3 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,257 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:12 PM

So Kanajashi's feedback trumps all then it looks like.

#4 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,257 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:17 PM

So 12 heat to fire Dual Gauss?

#5 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:17 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 23 August 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

So Kanajashi's feedback trumps all then it looks like.


I should just go watch that vid then?

Bleh. More downloading.

Patch day ritual extended for me.

#6 Vxheous

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2019 Gold Champ
  • CS 2019 Gold Champ
  • 3,827 posts
  • Location2 Time MWO World Champion

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:22 PM

Wow this PTS turned from a small pile to a large stinking pile..

#7 Tordin

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Wolf
  • The Wolf
  • 2,937 posts
  • LocationNordic Union

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:23 PM

Umm... increased spread to SRM, well. Okay, seems artemis will be even more important than before.

#8 Kanajashi

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Referee
  • The Referee
  • 317 posts
  • Twitter: Link
  • LocationBritish Columbia, Canada

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:26 PM

View PostGas Guzzler, on 23 August 2016 - 02:12 PM, said:

So Kanajashi's feedback trumps all then it looks like.


While I do like these changes, I absolutely do not want them to make changes solely on my ideas. We should be getting the system that is the best for the game as a whole.

However I do suspect that there was more than just myself that expressed the same ideas and hence PGI is giving them a try.

#9 Wing 0

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Mercenary
  • The Mercenary
  • 823 posts
  • LocationCalifornia

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:29 PM

Gauss Rifle...
Explosion Chance increased to 100% (from 90%)
Words cannot express how dumb of a mistake that it going to look.

#10 Jman5

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 4,914 posts

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:30 PM

I like that you're upping the heat penalty from 0.5 to 1. My concern is that these new penalties for autocannons make it difficult for players to mentally add up what sort of heat penalty they will accrue.

I made a thread here suggesting that you add some sort of indicator on the heatbar that will tell you just how much of your heat is coming from the heat penalty. If you guys do end up moving away from a strict 1:1 heat penalty for the sake of better balance, I think this will be all the more important for players.

#11 AnTi90d

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 1,229 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • Twitter: Link
  • Twitch: Link
  • Locationhttps://voat.co/

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:34 PM

You're now making ED exponentially more complicated than Ghost Heat ever was.

At this point, just call ED a failure and stick with Ghost Heat..

..except maybe keep some of the cooldown nerfs. That is an easy way to increase TTK.

#12 Deathlike

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Littlest Helper
  • Littlest Helper
  • 29,240 posts
  • Location#NOToTaterBalance #BadBalanceOverlordIsBad

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:35 PM

I don't entirely get why the CMPL (.7s) has a smaller duration than the CSPL (.75).

View PostWing 0, on 23 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

Gauss Rifle...
Explosion Chance increased to 100% (from 90%)
Words cannot express how dumb of a mistake that it going to look.


You know that you only have a 10% chance to avoid it.

Personally, it's mostly a guarantee that it'll explode with the IS Gauss. I'm not sure that's a dealbreaker.

#13 Gas Guzzler

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Big Daddy
  • Big Daddy
  • 14,257 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Central Coast

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:36 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 23 August 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

I don't entirely get why the CMPL (.7s) has a smaller duration than the CSPL (.75).


Because Arctic Cheetah? And because you can only fire 3 cMPLs without getting a heat penalty while you can fire 5 cSPLs for less tonnage and more damage.. LMAO. I hate this system.

#14 Deathz Jester

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 2,107 posts
  • LocationOH, USA

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:38 PM

Ghost heat sucks/sucked, was/is stupid, and this... this is just vastly more confusing, and sounds like a worse idea.

#15 Felicitatem Parco

    Professor of Memetics

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 13,522 posts
  • LocationIs Being Obscured By ECM

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:40 PM

Finally! The 16 ton Gauss Rifles have some sort of advantage over 12 ton Gauss Rifles!

#16 Reno Blade

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Blade
  • The Blade
  • 3,462 posts
  • LocationGermany

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:43 PM

Very nice changes!

I experimented with some different multipliers here to show graphs comparing no-penalty, GH, PTS1 and higher multipliers:
http://mwomercs.com/...-the-ed-system/
I was using these values which are essentially pretty close to the changes listed above:
Energy pool = 28
Multiplier Dmg/Draw = 1.0 and 0,75 for Spread (SRM, LRM, LBX) same as PTS1 Multiplier for penalty = 0.5 for SRM, 1.0 for Laser, 0.75 for LRM, 1.5 for PPC and Ballistics

EDIT:
using the 12 draw for PPCs (teal blue line) is still lower than GH, but a lot better.
With my numbers (see above) the line is much closer to GH (red line)
Posted Image

SRM6 with new values:
Posted Image

Edited by Reno Blade, 23 August 2016 - 03:24 PM.


#17 Elizander

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 7,540 posts
  • LocationPhilippines

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:45 PM

View PostTordin, on 23 August 2016 - 02:23 PM, said:

Umm... increased spread to SRM, well. Okay, seems artemis will be even more important than before.


The spread on SRMs were too tight already. I didn't feel the need to get artemis on them most of the time. I do think that SRM4s will still be fine without it and you'd have to facehug with SRM6s if you don't have Artemis.

View PostWing 0, on 23 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

Gauss Rifle...
Explosion Chance increased to 100% (from 90%)
Words cannot express how dumb of a mistake that it going to look.


I'm not quite sure how exploding 90% of the time and exploding 100% of the time makes much of a difference. Lesson I learned from my 4x Gauss Direwhale is to avoid putting them in STs whenever possible cause most people don't bother shooting your arm. :3

#18 BluefireMW

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Ace Of Spades
  • Ace Of Spades
  • 238 posts

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:53 PM

View PostWing 0, on 23 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

Gauss Rifle...
Explosion Chance increased to 100% (from 90%)
Words cannot express how dumb of a mistake that it going to look.

The point is, that all ammo, inclusive the Gauss should have 100% since beginning and there should be the ammo Dumping as part of this game.

View PostProsperity Park, on 23 August 2016 - 02:40 PM, said:

Finally! The 16 ton Gauss Rifles have some sort of advantage over 12 ton Gauss Rifles!

Oh the funny inner Sphere, are always looking for more then just ridiculous Quirks for there Side Torso, and other parts of there Mechs to make it more 'even'. It can never be enough advantages. How about just IS can't be hit in any way? only Clans can be hit and you win always?

Edited by BluefireMW, 23 August 2016 - 02:55 PM.


#19 Felicitatem Parco

    Professor of Memetics

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 13,522 posts
  • LocationIs Being Obscured By ECM

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:57 PM

View PostBluefireMW, on 23 August 2016 - 02:53 PM, said:

The point is, that all ammo, inclusive the Gauss should have 100% since beginning and there should be the ammo Dumping as part of this game.


Oh the funny inner Sphere, are always looking for more then just ridiculous Quirks for there Side Torso, and other parts of there Mechs to make it more 'even'. It can never be enough advantages. How about just IS can't be hit in any way? only Clans can be hit and you win always?


Oh, I'm sorry. Do you want your TT weapon values back for our 12v12 game?

#20 Ghogiel

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • CS 2021 Gold Champ
  • CS 2021 Gold Champ
  • 6,852 posts

Posted 23 August 2016 - 02:59 PM

IS LPL sounds ok

View PostDeathlike, on 23 August 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

Personally, it's mostly a guarantee that it'll explode with the IS Gauss. I'm not sure that's a dealbreaker.

It's a no brainer trade to have double the health to help mitigate it critting in the first place for me. but c gauss ;_;

Not sure about breaking the energy draw with just dual gauss tho... that might suck balls

Edited by Ghogiel, 23 August 2016 - 02:59 PM.






1 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users