303 replies to this topic

[Gernot von Kurzmann]

Ohhhh noooooo!!! A Autocanon takes more energy than a laser - you make some kind of jokes with us?

Did the take the energy for the propellant not from the cartridges???

Oh yeah - its an arcade GAME and not a realistic mech simulation

-.-


i would like too see a way more too an more understandable way of mech warrior online short mwo


the sci-fi that I like most endeavors so believable and fantastic realistic as possible to come over , so it gives the feeling of us to become reality one day perhaps.


thx

Edited by Gernot von Kurzmann, 23 August 2016 - 11:35 PM.

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Kmieciu, on 23 August 2016 - 11:05 PM, said:

Sorry to say this, but I don't even know what you are trying to accomplish with your SHC build.
If you want to hunt lights take 3xC-SSRM6 2xSPL.
If you want to brawl take 3xC-SRM6+A+2xSPL or 3xC-SRM4+2xC-MPL.
For mid range I like UAC10+2xERML or 3 ERML if you drop ECM.
If you want to fight from distance just use 2xC-LPL -> that's definitely the most popular and deadly SHC build.

With all of those PTS changes, 3xC-ERLL will become the best SHC build. 33 Damage 33 Heat, shorter beam duration and best range among lasers.

Lol, you don't need to be sorry. It works great on live, believe it or not. I drop with it in tier 1 quickplay all the time (pull between 400-500 dmg average). My problem is that this PTS was supposed to be friendly to mixed builds like mine, discouraging high damage, sync'd weapon alphas. It hasn't been friendly in my experience thus far, and I feel like mechs that use PPCs without boating them are being punished for using the weapon in a way that was never overpowered to begin with.

Oh and if you want the write up on "what I'm trying to accomplish with my build" here's a link to it on mechspecs: https://www.mechspec...srm4-ecm.10695/

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 23 August 2016 - 11:32 PM.

[Steel Raven]

Unless PPCs are getting a velocity boost, higher heat and longer recharge are going to feel like a nerf.

Mechwarrior (and Battletech for that matter) never messed with power consumption before, heat has always been the moderator. Adding power consumption feels like a unnecessary addition from the word go regardless of how long people have been complaining about the heat levels (don't think we will ever agree on anything as a community)

And no, Direct Energy Weapons shouldn't use less energy than Chemically Propelled Weapons. That whole idea is just *** backwards, where do you think that heat comes from?

[Kurbeks]

So yes, let's nerf AC20 and SRMs even more, cause Brawling was so OP!

Thanx at least for PPC and gauss adjustments. Lasres also need work

[Jack Shayu Walker]

Kurbeks, on 24 August 2016 - 12:18 AM, said:

So yes, let's nerf AC20 and SRMs even more, cause Brawling was so OP!

Thanx at least for PPC and gauss adjustments. Lasres also need work

If we're sticking to energy draw then I agree that increasing the energy draw value on PPCs was a good idea (same for gauss). However, I feel the cooldown increase was unnecessary and detrimental. I'm sorta neutral on the heat, I'm used to them being hot, reverting back to 15 heat doesn't feel like too much of a difference. Still I know that hurts for some people, and for builds not boating PPCs, a nerf is totally undue in the first place.

Edited by Jack Shayu Walker, 24 August 2016 - 12:27 AM.

[Yosharian]

This is such a *********** of bad, good and utterly stupid ideas that I don't even know where to begin.

All I'm gonna say is: I'm never playing an assault ever again.

Edited by Yosharian, 24 August 2016 - 01:06 AM.

[Mr Inconsistent]

Shouldn't the most basic question be: "Is the Energy Draw system intuitive and does it improve and the game for both new and experienced players?"

In my experience from the PTS, no to both. The UI element is not easily read or interpreted. The mechanic behind it is convoluted and complex. The 'tweaks' being done to it show the level of complexity in the mechanic and how difficult it will be to maintain moving forward. I do not want to, nor should I have to do maths to play a game or to learn to play it well.

If this is not improving the game and as rightly pointed out by a previous poster, making the game more fun, what is the point?

[Skaav]

I have a really really crazy idea.

Instead of introducing a convoluted Mechanic, which drives up the heat of basically all weapons... (stick with me here, I know its hard) ... WE COULD JUST INCREASE THE HEAT OF THE WEAPONS DIRECTLY?????????????????


KABOOOOOOOOOOM


On a more serious note:

this system looks and feels wonky at best, once again we are at a point (already) where the system is way too convoluted to feel intuitive (and if we're honest, nothing will ever feel intuitive, because its a tacked on system),
I

Edited by Skaav, 24 August 2016 - 01:56 AM.

[Itachi The Prodigy]

Been a battle tech, Mechwarrior fan for over 10 years now, and none of their games had an energy draw system, yet MW4 was well balanced. More powerful weapons like the gauss rifle had a 7 seconds cooldown and max range of 800 M which was fine, what PGI is doing with the franchise is horrible they are trying to build the mechwarrior franchise into something that it is not. No energy draw system was ever in the battle tech universe. Yet the system is much better than ghost heat, but it is not "noob friendly" for new players, now we have two bars to look at,

Now we can't take more than 2 Gauss rifles on our mechs, So PGI tell me this how are you gonna release mechs with stock 3 Gauss Rifle Config like the thunder hawk:



Keep the mechwarrior lore by having all weapons with thier original specs, all the powerful weapons had incredible long cool downs, so there is no need to further limit a weapon to carrying 2 gauss rifles, also the penalty of losing a gauss rifle is another cost in itself COMMON PGI!! THIS IS NOT DUKE NUKEMAN FOREVER.


WELCOME GHOST HEAT 2.0

Edited by Itachi The Prodigy, 24 August 2016 - 01:52 AM.

[Koniving]

Prosperity Park, on 23 August 2016 - 02:57 PM, said:

Oh, I'm sorry. Do you want your TT weapon values back for our 12v12 game?

I agree that in here the change to Gauss needed to be made and the teams more balanced, though I agree with the other guy that quirks aren't the way to do it.

A base change like this Gauss rifle change, however, is. Larger, heavier, easier to criticize weapons need more internal health over the smaller, lighter, harder to criticize Clan items.

Also about 90% of quirks need to be thrown out in favor of weapon variants with base stat differences that DO NOT STACK! And have different compatibility with different mechs/variants so that each mech can have some edges over others depending on equipment/brand choices and not "herp-derp we crammed big quirks here buy this one, oops we sold a lot so we take quirks away now otay?"

Base stats and limited selection for mechs means the value overall won't change just for a single mech because of balance as it would affect all associated with a weapon changed due to being too powerful or weak, without the mass histeria and outcry.

Edits were necessary because Android tablet and big fingers.

Edited by Koniving, 24 August 2016 - 02:41 AM.

[Peter Overheater]

For me it seems like PGI wants to have more noobs standing in the middle of the battlefield not knowing what to do without getting punished for their failures. Yesterday i dropped with a Tier 5 fresh recruit from our unit, so MM should align us somewhere around Tier 3. One match on alpine i saw five mechs, two of them lights, just standing around in the middle of the battlefield firing their LURMS and Large Lasers. One of them ran OOB without knowing that he gets killed by it. The perfect Gauss shooting Gallery. I guess those are the same people crying for nerfs for Gauss and PPC. People who are unwilling to learn to aim and lead their weapons properly, not to speak of the right positioning. Also Weapons like CMPL which have a very high heat for their Damage&Range get more nerfs by the Energy Draw system, while MR. 6LL Stalker can sit around in his corner more comfortably.

CERPPC with 10 pinpoint and this rubbish 2*2,5 Splash gets even more heat and CD? Then at least make 15 pinpoint damage to compensate for this.

So overall more facehugging, Lurm&LL Spam and a nerf of those weapons wich require some skill. Well done PGI, well done.

[Vellron2005]

It seems to me that this energy draw is beginning to look like another "Great rebalance", wich we had just a few moths ago, no?

The fact that players feel that this new system is needed is kind of funny, since the rebalance was supposed to be the end-all balance-all solution.

Now energy draw introduces a never before seen mechanic in battletech, because PGI just can't seem to properly balance heat management.

I don't get it.. Why can't we keep it simple? Big weapons produce lots of heat, small weapons produce a little heat, boat-loads of small weapons produce boat loads of little heat wich equals lots of heat. Simple, no?

Somebody already said it, and I agree - No ghost heat, no energy draw, simply rebalance heat values of weapons, and that's it!

[Steve Pryde]

Sorry but with that changes you make energy draw more complicated than ghost heat. Get rid of both of them and make a PROPER heatscale with big penaltys if you get hot. For example hud flickering, slown down mechs (in table top u could so much overheat that u even cant move your mech; or look into mechwarrior 4, their the mechs get so slow then they get hot) and ammo explosions if u get too hot. And in the end they shut down for 5++ seconds if they reached the end of the heatscale. A system like this would understand every guy, even players that begin with MWO.

Let the guys do big alphas but then they're utterly slow and can't even move into cover or their ammo explodes.
Then u can adjust the weapons, not that crap that we have now.

It could be so easy but pls no ghost heat 2.0 sorry energy draw system.

Edited by Steve Pryde, 24 August 2016 - 03:32 AM.

[H I A S]

yeah make this game even more unfun. gg
what a waste of time.

/e: you nerfed jj, ppc and ac because all the crybabys two years ago and now that? seriously?

go and develope pve for players who dont wanna die.

/e2: you want to know why so many good players no longer play this game?

Edited by arivio, 24 August 2016 - 03:25 AM.

[Tiantara]

Wing 0, on 23 August 2016 - 02:29 PM, said:

Gauss Rifle...
Explosion Chance increased to 100% (from 90%)
Words cannot express how dumb of a mistake that it going to look.

- And it blows up if you overheat...

[Kmieciu]

Since there is no heat scale and no heat penalties in MWO, we should get rid of the base 30 heat capacity.
That 30 heat was supposed to simulate heat scale from TT, but we don't have any heat scale. Your mech is either 100% operational or you shut down.

Therefore a mech with 250 rated engine and DHS upgrade will have 20 points of heat capacity. And TTK will sky-rocket since everyone will have to chain-fire.

Imagine how 1 variable would change the whole balance.

Edited by Kmieciu, 24 August 2016 - 03:36 AM.

[Willothius]

Mr Inconsistent, on 24 August 2016 - 01:32 AM, said:

Shouldn't the most basic question be: "Is the Energy Draw system intuitive and does it improve and the game for both new and experienced players?"

In my experience from the PTS, no to both. The UI element is not easily read or interpreted. The mechanic behind it is convoluted and complex.

To everyone shouting "it's too complex, convoluted, and noobunfriendly"; FFS there is NO possible way it's MORE complex or convoluted than ghost heat is now!! You ALREADY have to calculate, ****, or even use scripted trigger commands if you want to optimize your playing! How is firing 12 ER SLs instant death when 6 by 6 is less than 50% heat? The difference in 0,5 sec or 0,49 sec causes more than 50% increase in heat is noobfriendlier than "bar empty + keep shooting = heat penalty"?

People are just blind sighted by the bigger amount of numbers in PTS2, but that doesn't invalidate the basic principle: Energy Draw is way better than current ghost heat.

For God's sake, PGI finally trying to do something that actually makes sense (Incl. several PTS iterations!) and they STILL get bashed by people who PREFER ghost heat??? Don't listen to them PGI, please!

[ItchyTriggerFingers]

Seeing as this mechanic is very unlikely to go away based on "if it's on the PTS, it's in the game" would the Energy Draw System work better if instead of adding more heat, it simply breaks weapon convergence?
Yup, Homeless Bill's idea seems like a winner even after 3 years.

I agree that if EDS is dropped, as a dual gauss sniper and a srm6 boater; increase all cooldowns, drop heat thresholds, remove ghost heat.

Edited by ItchyScrot, 24 August 2016 - 03:56 AM.

[DrxAbstract]

Willothius, on 24 August 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

To everyone shouting "it's too complex, convoluted, and noobunfriendly"; FFS there is NO possible way it's MORE complex or convoluted than ghost heat is now!! You ALREADY have to calculate, ****, or even use scripted trigger commands if you want to optimize your playing! How is firing 12 ER SLs instant death when 6 by 6 is less than 50% heat? The difference in 0,5 sec or 0,49 sec causes more than 50% increase in heat is noobfriendlier than "bar empty + keep shooting = heat penalty"?

People are just blind sighted by the bigger amount of numbers in PTS2, but that doesn't invalidate the basic principle: Energy Draw is way better than current ghost heat.

For God's sake, PGI finally trying to do something that actually makes sense (Incl. several PTS iterations!) and they STILL get bashed by people who PREFER ghost heat??? Don't listen to them PGI, please!

This guy has a point... Then again people on both sides of it have some valid points buried in all the nonsense. Nobody can decide on what's best and you cant please everyone, with PGI caught in the middle of a shouting match and mud-slinging contest...

Good god, it's no wonder PGI uses a dart board to balance the game - You people are ****ing crazy.

[Kmieciu]

Willothius, on 24 August 2016 - 03:44 AM, said:

People are just blind sighted by the bigger amount of numbers in PTS2, but that doesn't invalidate the basic principle: Energy Draw is way better than current ghost heat.

I wholeheartedly agree. There even is a sound effect when you go over the limit.
Host heat is very obscure to a new player. He is not informed about the 0.5s timer.

Hell, even the PGI`s lead designer did not acknowledge that 2xAC2 could produce exponential ghost heat:

You know how they fixed it?
They didn't.
They just disabled ghost heat on AC2s.

Edited by Kmieciu, 24 August 2016 - 03:58 AM.