17 replies to this topic

[DjPush]

So.. Some new changes were made to the system being tested on the PTS. for a complete list of changes go here:

http://mwomercs.com/...w-pts-23aug2016

Has anyone taken the time to test these out? I won't be able to get on the PTS until tomorrow. I'm curious how the new adjustments feel to those who tried it.

[Sean Lang]

Testing right now live on stream: http://twitch.tv/ngngtv

[AnTi90d]

It's now even more complicated than Ghost Heat.

New players won't know what the hell is going on.

They should just keep Ghost Heat and increase all weapon cooldowns if they want to raise TTK.

It's almost like, at least this year, PGI has the reverse-Midas touch.. everything they touch turns to crap.

[Signal27]

AnTi90d, on 23 August 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

It's now even more complicated than Ghost Heat.

New players won't know what the hell is going on.

Part of me agrees with you.

Another part of me remembers that a legion of players are able to memorize critical hit chances, DPS calculations, loot drop tables, raid boss patterns, individual character class PvP powers, and the latest flavor-of-the-month metas from World of Warcraft and a host of other MMORPGs. Similar deal for League of Legends and DOTA2.

Now granted, a more action-oriented shooter game tends not to attract that kind of player. But I thought we didn't want Call of Duty kids around these parts anyhow.

Edited by Signal27, 23 August 2016 - 07:38 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Signal27, on 23 August 2016 - 07:26 PM, said:

Now granted, a more action-oriented shooter game tends not to attract that kind of player. But I thought we didn't want Call of Duty kids around these parts anyhow.

Isn't close to CoD at all, so we are fine

[AnTi90d]

PGI's goal was twofold:

Develop a system that's easier to understand than Ghost Heat.

Increase TTK.

ED is now much more complicated than Ghost Heat. Sure, the top tier players will break out the calculators and make high performance builds on a few chosen chassis.. but that system doesn't benefit the mids/lows/news at all.

TTK can be increased by simply increasing the cooldown of all weapons.

PGI is wasting money in developing a system that half of their existing (paying) players do not want.. especially since it makes it more complicated to get into the game from a newbie's perspective. Their original idea was 1 damage = 1 energy.. which promoted boating/peek-poke-sniping out the wazoo. That idea was simple but bad for the game. Now, they're grasping at straws, trying to make it fit into the game.. just like Russ did with the Long Tom. (Check out FP's player numbers compared to pre-phase3 to see how well that went over.)

[Sylonce]

I am just curious, but why is there so much support for increased TTK?

Perhaps it is a good thing, but I always find that the TTK in MWO was pretty high before (probably the highest in any Mechwarrior game I've played). With 12v12 matchups, it can make things rather frustrating because once a team starts losing mechs, the remaining mechs will just have a tougher time against the winning team even if the latter makes a tactical mistake. It becomes a landslide. More mechs standing = harder to kill... no?

What are the benefits of increased TTK? Something I'm not seeing?

Edited by Sylonce, 23 August 2016 - 08:59 PM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Sylonce, on 23 August 2016 - 08:57 PM, said:

I am just curious, but why is there so much support for increased TTK?

Perhaps it is a good thing, but I always find that the TTK in MWO was pretty high before (probably the highest in any Mechwarrior game I've played). With 12v12 matchups, it can make things rather frustrating because once a team starts losing mechs, the remaining mechs will just have a tougher time against the winning team even if the latter makes a tactical mistake. It becomes a landslide. More mechs standing = harder to kill... no?

What are the benefits of increased TTK? Something I'm not seeing?

Some people are under the impression that if they get away with their mistakes this is more of a thinking man's shooter. Which is kind of backwards..

[Kyrie]

The old match-ups of 8v8 from the good ole days had, as a rule, a tendency to reduce stomps.
The lower the TTK, the faster a game can devolve into a stomp... Combine that with more players in the match, and presto! The match timer is irrelevant 95% of the time.

[LordKnightFandragon]

Can the CERPPC get 15 PPD now?

[EvilCow]

OK, it officially does not make sense anymore.

Another layer of per-weapon rules and exceptions on top of quirks.

Lesson not learned, support withdrawn.

Edited by EvilCow, 23 August 2016 - 10:10 PM.

[Monkey Lover]

dang just tried it no more 4ppc+2gauss kdk lol That was fun for the first few days

LordKnightFandragon, on 23 August 2016 - 10:01 PM, said:

Can the CERPPC get 15 PPD now?

No but i think they should give you a cppc without the spash if you wanted it. With the same rules as IS.

Edited by Monkey Lover, 23 August 2016 - 10:13 PM.

[Flitzomat]

Kyrie, on 23 August 2016 - 09:42 PM, said:

The old match-ups of 8v8 from the good ole days had, as a rule, a tendency to reduce stomps.
The lower the TTK, the faster a game can devolve into a stomp... Combine that with more players in the match, and presto! The match timer is irrelevant 95% of the time.

This seems to be the new explanation for everything. The good old days of 8vs.8 Think back.... or just read up on this post I randomly picked from a google search:
http://mwomercs.com/...o-pug-stomping/

[SQW]

Gas Guzzler, on 23 August 2016 - 09:10 PM, said:

Some people are under the impression that if they get away with their mistakes this is more of a thinking man's shooter. Which is kind of backwards..

And some people think putting 6 lasers on one pixel because he happens to twitch shoot a second faster than the opponent is somehow skill. Yes, it's a good sniper skill in COD, CS etc but it flies in the face of everything that makes BT what it is.

You try putting scan hit AK47/M15 with no recoil back in a PVP modern shooter and convince people that's somehow more skill.

[Johnny Z]

Gave my 2 ERPPC, AC 5 Marauder a try so far and its doing not to badly. A bit hot though... No complaints yet until I get a chance to try a few other mechs and load outs.

[JC Daxion]

DjPush, on 23 August 2016 - 07:14 PM, said:

So.. Some new changes were made to the system being tested on the PTS. for a complete list of changes go here:

http://mwomercs.com/...w-pts-23aug2016

Has anyone taken the time to test these out? I won't be able to get on the PTS until tomorrow. I'm curious how the new adjustments feel to those who tried it.

Sweet, I knew adjusts where coming.. I really like the direction this is headed..


Yes it is a bit more complicated in the sense that each weapon is now unique for value, But really was pretty obvious it was going to happen as it launched on to PTS, Besides i think the number crucher's will enjoy it.
they said, all weapons are normalized,, that is programmer speak for first test...

SRM change i dunno how i like this one though, AS if is intended for those that boat SRM's, but what about all those mechs that just run 1-2 launchers. for instance, the cent AH, with an AC-20 + dual SRM's? You could not fire both at the same the same time as it was, Now the SRM4's for example are a bit less effective.


Can't dual fire Gauss with out a penalty, No issues here..

No more triple PPC's with out penalty, again no issue, You can still fire in groups of two, for some very good damage. Take a hit from a quad PPC boat, you have a huge advantage if you are in brawl range, like it should be.


Over all i like the small tweaks, and a nice second round test.. Now with no events going on atm.. tonight would be a great night to get on test!

.

AnTi90d, on 23 August 2016 - 07:22 PM, said:

It's now even more complicated than Ghost Heat.

New players won't know what the hell is going on.

How is it complicated to add up numbers to 30?? Just because every weapon has a different number does not make it any more difficult to comprehend..


Every weapon has Damage, heat, Recharge and power, adjust them for balance. This is not an issue..

Edited by JC Daxion, 24 August 2016 - 01:17 AM.

[Frankdark]

Why higher CD is not a good sulution?!?
Becouse it would not lower TTK in most situations.
It would improve Camperstrike / Tankwarrior.

THe Problem is HIgh ALphas and than torso Twist or going behind cover is a better playstyle than stay in the open and bring each wepons in it´s target.

Thats the Purpos of the ENergy System. THe Need to Focus on youre target for a longer time.

The Problems, AC and Gauss losses A Big part of ther Points. AS Low Heat Wepaons.

Edited by Frankdark, 24 August 2016 - 01:33 AM.

[Moonlight Grimoire]

It isn't any more complicated than heat, it is also silly to assume they would keep the energy values of weapons hidden in the end product. PGI wants people to plan out what weapons to fire when so we have to know what draws how much.

Is this system better than simply rolling back variable heat capacity and locking the game to hard heat cap of 30 and removing ghost heat (and then add it back in if problems are found that cool down and heat generation tweaks can't fix). I know PGI has invested probably a year into Power Draw, but, they should have at least tried undoing the very thing that made Ghost Heat exist, but, hey, it is PGI's money to run out of.