51 replies to this topic

[Signal27]

A poll was done before, but I figured the update to ED warranted another poll to give the devs feedback on it.

Edited by Signal27, 24 August 2016 - 09:15 AM.

[Lostdragon]

How about "None of the above"?

[Signal27]

Lostdragon, on 24 August 2016 - 09:18 AM, said:

How about "None of the above"?

That's not an option on the poll because it's flat out not going to be an option the devs will ever put back in. So I'm trying to keep things relevant.

[Monkey Lover]

I think the 2nd is better but it needs work. I wouldnt want to send this pushed out yet.

[Reno Blade]

I compared a few weapons to GH and also added other values to the PTS numbers to see which one would come closest to the current GH.
http://mwomercs.com/...e-for-yourself/
e.g. for PTS2 the PPC with 12 draw is just a bit lower than the current GH:

Edited by Reno Blade, 24 August 2016 - 09:38 AM.

[Gas Guzzler]

Considering that the community has bought in to the game we have now currently, there really should be an overwhelming majority to overturn ghost heat.

[AnTi90d]

Gas Guzzler, on 24 August 2016 - 09:38 AM, said:

Considering that the community has bought in to the game we have now currently, there really should be an overwhelming majority to overturn ghost heat.

I agree. It's a poor business decision to make a move that will piss off roughly half of your paying players.

There was also a straw poll on reddit about ED. Though a few hundred voted on that one, it still had roughly the same results as this: a 50/50 split.

..but PGI isn't known for their good business acumen.. they're known for taking the advice of the NGNG yes-men that do dev-drops with Tina and post arse-kissing YouTube videos and stroke Russ' ego on Twitter..

[Signal27]

AnTi90d, on 24 August 2016 - 09:44 AM, said:

I agree. It's a poor business decision to make a move that will piss off roughly half of your paying players.

There was also a straw poll on reddit about ED. Though a few hundred voted on that one, it still had roughly the same results as this: a 50/50 split.

The argument could be made that since the devs have presented this new option for their customers to try out, to take it away from the ones who like it better could p!ss off that half as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Edited by Signal27, 24 August 2016 - 09:48 AM.

[AnTi90d]

Signal27, on 24 August 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

The argument could be made that since the devs have presented this new option for their customers to try out, to take it away from the ones who like it better could p!ss off that half as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

That's also a valid point.

I really think the developers should play the game with alt accounts and without telling any of their friends what they're doing.. get some real in-game experience in T2-T1 matches and talk to those people (that's where the whales live.)

I predict at least one more change to the PTS environment and then it'll get shoved into the game.. I and many others will quit and we can keep an eye on the Steam Charts page to see what their numbers look like, two months after the change.

(Steam numbers have stabilized at roughly 1k players, on average.. so population changes from this point are a valid metric.)

http://steamcharts.com/app/342200

[Lostdragon]

Signal27, on 24 August 2016 - 09:21 AM, said:

That's not an option on the poll because it's flat out not going to be an option the devs will ever put back in. So I'm trying to keep things relevant.

So you would rather skew the poll one way or the other than offer to represent a valid viewpoint?

[kapusta11]

Signal27, on 24 August 2016 - 09:47 AM, said:

The argument could be made that since the devs have presented this new option for their customers to try out, to take it away from the ones who like it better could p!ss off that half as well. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Just how many people actually downloaded PTS client? Judging by how many people were testing things, not a lot.

[Signal27]

Lostdragon, on 24 August 2016 - 10:04 AM, said:

So you would rather skew the poll one way or the other than offer to represent a valid viewpoint?

It's not a valid viewpoint because I'm absolutely certain it's a thing the developers will never, ever do. So I figure: You may as well work with what is on the table. If one truly doesn't like any of these systems, one simply does not need to vote at all.

kapusta11, on 24 August 2016 - 10:08 AM, said:

Just how many people actually downloaded PTS client? Judging by how many people were testing things, not a lot.

That did occur to me, but I figured we could extrapolate the results of the poll to how the general populace of the live servers might react to it.

[Lostdragon]

Signal27, on 24 August 2016 - 10:53 AM, said:

It's not a valid viewpoint because I'm absolutely certain it's a thing the developers will never, ever do. So I figure: You may as well work with what is on the table. If one truly doesn't like any of these systems, one simply does not need to vote at all.

Excluding contrary viewpoints just creates an echo chamber that PGI can use to validate bad decisions. Even if it is unlikely ED or GH will be scrapped completely PGI should still be aware that there are people who do not like either system.

[cazidin]

...How are the votes STILL close to Ghost Heat when so far Energy Draw is better explained, has a better and more visible presence on the UI, can actually accomplish what it's designed for with a few more minor twinks AND it hasn't been called Ghost Draw since we got to play with it on the PTS - which should really say something about it's quality.

[Signal27]

Lostdragon, on 24 August 2016 - 10:55 AM, said:

Excluding contrary viewpoints just creates an echo chamber that PGI can use to validate bad decisions. Even if it is unlikely ED or GH will be scrapped completely PGI should still be aware that there are people who do not like either system.

What you argue would be an "echo chamber" in this regard, I dismiss as "noise." In other words: It's better to stick to the issue at hand then get distracted by stuff that isn't even on the developer's radar at the moment. And probably will never be, given that they're probably not going to just toss all the effort they put in to implementing Ghost Heat or Energy Draw.

[Lostdragon]

Signal27, on 24 August 2016 - 11:00 AM, said:

What you argue would be an "echo chamber" in this regard, I dismiss as "noise." In other words: It's better to stick to the issue at hand then get distracted by stuff that isn't even on the developer's radar at the moment. And probably will never be, given that they're probably not going to just toss all the effort they put in to implementing Ghost Heat or Energy Draw.

You mean like they did with Info Warfare?

[Signal27]

Lostdragon, on 24 August 2016 - 11:14 AM, said:

You mean like they did with Info Warfare?

I will grant you that one. But Info Warfare is but one singular exception to the general rule that whatever PGI puts up on the PTS server is going to make it live in some form.

[ScarecrowES]

cazidin, on 24 August 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

...How are the votes STILL close to Ghost Heat when so far Energy Draw is better explained, has a better and more visible presence on the UI, can actually accomplish what it's designed for with a few more minor twinks AND it hasn't been called Ghost Draw since we got to play with it on the PTS - which should really say something about it's quality.

Not sure if serious, so I'm just going to assume you are and say that pretty much none of that has proven true and has actually gotten farther away from those concepts since PGI started messing with it.

You now literally have GH incorporated into ED. That's ridiculous.

[Gas Guzzler]

cazidin, on 24 August 2016 - 10:58 AM, said:

...How are the votes STILL close to Ghost Heat when so far Energy Draw is better explained, has a better and more visible presence on the UI, can actually accomplish what it's designed for with a few more minor twinks AND it hasn't been called Ghost Draw since we got to play with it on the PTS - which should really say something about it's quality.

Ghost heat currently has a demanding lead. I guess it just leads to a game that is more fun.

[Cy Mitchell]

AnTi90d, on 24 August 2016 - 09:58 AM, said:

(Steam numbers have stabilized at roughly 1k players, on average.. so population changes from this point are a valid metric.)

http://steamcharts.com/app/342200

I never really understand all the emphasis some people put on the Steam numbers. Most of us do not use Steam for this game and never have. The Leaderboards are putting the number of active accounts somewhere around the 50,000 mark. Yet, we are supposed to use the 1,000 player level of Steam as some sort of benchmark?

Steam subscribers are notorious for their short attention span for most games. They have a plethora of game choices and often try one after another in relatively quick succession. Whatever the new shiny is! The ones they like they make come back to to check out from time to time. You can put a lot of credence in the Steam numbers if you like. Personally, they mean very little to me.