38 replies to this topic

[DAEDALOS513]

Destoroyah, on 29 August 2016 - 02:01 PM, said:

No one is asking for pinpoint damage on LRMs just a fix to the performance disparity of the bigger launchers to the smallest. The LRM 5 is so much more efficient then 15s and 20s there is no reason to ever use them cause equivalent numbers of 5s beat the larger launcher every time.

People that say LRMs are no skill weapons are full of it. It might not be twitch skill like the other weapons but requires tactical skills if you want to get the most out of the weapon. You got to take in account trajectory, terrain, missle speed, location of target, your location, ease of access to available cover for the target, etc. Yes you could just sit in one spot and hold down the fire button, but unless your opponents are complete incompetents your not going to do anything of note.
The good LRM pilots know you got to move around the battlefield to get to spots that'll make it hard for the enemy to easily avoid your salvos or to flush them out of comfort spots so your team can chew them up, or just to act as a area denial mech while your team closes in for a flanking attack.

Exactly, the good LURM pilot DOES know you got to keep moving around the battlefield. That's why heavy and assault lurm boats (that can fit lrm20's) are more of a hindrance to the team (slowing them down, taking the spot of a direct fire heavy/assault, etc) than a benefit... cuz they too SLOW and cannot defend themselves. I do better in my quad lrm5 oxide than most heavy/assault LRM boats because as you say.. mobility is key, NOT heavy lrm firepower. Doing a general buff of LRM 20's will only promote larger mechs boating lurms.. believe me this is not a good thing for the game or gameplay. As you all move up in tier you will realize this as well.

If anything, spread out the small-fire launchers so they fall inline with the larger ones, and not the other way around.

[Destoroyah]

AH but that is kind of the point being made here. The larger mechs that should be bringing larger LRM's aren't cause there performance is so bad for the many costs that larger launcher entails that they are forced into using small launchers that really limits there potential DPS when they get into position.

Normalizing the spread to say 4meters which is slightly tighter then a LRM10 in 5 missle volleys is large enough the spread isn't very focused and still allows the various missle boosting equipment to still be viable, yet is small enough your not wasting too many missles that just slam into the ground. Then the LRMer needs to choose do I bring small launchers for fast Suppression capability or some big launchers for Burst Damage at the cost of longer cycle times.

[DAEDALOS513]

Destoroyah, on 30 August 2016 - 11:07 AM, said:

AH but that is kind of the point being made here. The larger mechs that should be bringing larger LRM's aren't cause there performance is so bad for the many costs that larger launcher entails that they are forced into using small launchers that really limits there potential DPS when they get into position.

Normalizing the spread to say 4meters which is slightly tighter then a LRM10 in 5 missle volleys is large enough the spread isn't very focused and still allows the various missle boosting equipment to still be viable, yet is small enough your not wasting too many missles that just slam into the ground. Then the LRMer needs to choose do I bring small launchers for fast Suppression capability or some big launchers for Burst Damage at the cost of longer cycle times.

Ah but you missed my point where i state: "Doing a general buff of LRM 20's will only promote larger mechs boating lurms.. believe me this is not a good thing for the game or gameplay."

LRMs should not be made more viable because they are a low-risk, indirect weapon. If PGI, in their infinite wisdom, were to ever make LRMs more viable, people would leave this game in droves because they would be catering to the new and inexperienced player rather than the experienced veteran that has poured time and money into the game. They can't afford any more losses, trust me.

Believe me, it wouldn't take long before even the tier 4's and 5's say to themselves: "I'm getting rained on from some unseen enemy and it's doing serious damage. This game just isn't fun anymore... I'm out of here."

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 30 August 2016 - 04:53 PM.

[Andi Nagasia]

DAEDALOS513, on 30 August 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Ah but you missed my point where i state: "Doing a general buff of LRM 20's will only promote larger mechs boating lurms.. believe me this is not a good thing for the game or gameplay."

ok how about this you have a choice to bring an LRM20 or an AC10 which do you Bring? thats right the AC10,

making all Launchers fire at 4m spread would make all LRM Launchers Viable,
this is needed as it Balances all LRM Launchers to each other, which is the Final goal here,
and you can make the well people who boat will get better and do more damage, well yes thats true,

but look at the other side of things, people Boat UAC5s is that a Problem?
some may abuse the buff, but im Hoping this comes in with Energy Draw,
and Energy Draw will limit you to 2LRM20s before heat penalties,

DAEDALOS513, on 30 August 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

LRMs should not be made more viable because they are a low-risk, indirect weapon. If PGI, in their infinite wisdom, were to ever make LRMs more viable, people would leave this game in droves because they would be catering to the new and inexperienced player rather than the experienced veteran that has poured time and money into the game. They can't afford any more losses, trust me.

LRMs are anything but Low Risk, a good LRM pilot has to get their own Locks,
only Green Players Depend fully on others getting locked for them because then its up to chance,
if im taking LRMs im only using them in 550 or less, any more and its a waste, because of travel time,

LRMs arnt the best way for Green Players to earn money, its the best way for vets to Farm Green players,
Vets know how LRMs work, hear missile warning get to cover, quick enough means you take no damage,
Every other weapon that exists in MWO is better off to hit with them LRMs, Why?
because you can guarantee damage, your not just clicking and hoping,

DAEDALOS513, on 30 August 2016 - 04:46 PM, said:

Believe me, it wouldn't take long before even the tier 4's and 5's say to themselves: "I'm getting rained on from some unseen enemy and it's doing serious damage. This game just isn't fun anymore... I'm out of here."

im in teir 4 and i cant agree with that,
it only takes 2-3 games of LRMs to teach you(Hear warning = Get to Cover Fast)
you dont even see people bringing AMS because LRMs are such a Joke, if 5s arnt boated en mass,

please Read the Topics in the OP, and ill even Extend to you this Challenge,
take an AC5+3tons of ammo(10-11Tons) into Training Grounds & Try to kill an Atlas(600m),
then take an LRM20+4tons of ammo(9-14Tons) into Training Grounds & Try to kill an Atlas,
see which takes longer & is more effective(for good measure, with the AC5 take out a ST first)
you will be supprized on what you find,
Edit-

Edited by Andi Nagasia, 30 August 2016 - 10:13 PM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 August 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

ok how about this you have a choice to bring an LRM20 or an AC10 which do you Bring? thats right the AC10,

Depends what mood I'm in. I take lrms to change things up and have a less stressful gaming experience

Andi Nagasia, on 30 August 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

making all Launchers fire at 4m spread would make all LRM Launchers Viable,
this is needed as it Balances all LRM Launchers to each other, which is the Final goal here,
and you can make the well people who boat will get better and do more damage, well yes thats true,

Edit-

"Doing a general buff of LRM 20's will only promote larger mechs boating lurms.. believe me this is not a good thing for the game or gameplay." I speak from experience which you don't have much of. When you get to 20k+ matches played (or probably way before that) you'll feel kind of embarassed about trying to buff lrms.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 31 August 2016 - 06:02 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 August 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

but look at the other side of things, people Boat UAC5s is that a Problem?

Ac's vs lrms.. where do i start.. both require totally different skill level and mind set. There is a reason why ac's are more effective... let's just say they require greater skill with more risk involved and deserve their increased effectiveness.

[DAEDALOS513]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 August 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

LRMs are anything but Low Risk, a good LRM pilot has to get their own Locks,
only Green Players Depend fully on others getting locked for them because then its up to chance,
if im taking LRMs im only using them in 550 or less, any more and its a waste, because of travel time,

LRMs arnt the best way for Green Players to earn money, its the best way for vets to Farm Green players,
Vets know how LRMs work, hear missile warning get to cover, quick enough means you take no damage,
Every other weapon that exists in MWO is better off to hit with them LRMs, Why?
because you can guarantee damage, your not just clicking and hoping,

Edit-

LRMS aren't low risk, but they ARE lower risk. LURM boats stand back behind the team supporting the grunts up front who are ducking and dodging, shielding their cored components, positioning for optimal trades, aiming using the paper-doll and trying to control their heat levels. Does lrm boat even do any of this? They may but not while under pressure or during one-on-one combat. Comparing risk levels for lrm boat and front-liners shouldn't even be a topic for discussion. People don't use ams cuz lrms are useless, ppl don't use ams cuz those you use lrms aren't that good.

Bottom line, lrms are a support weapon and should not be as effective as direct line-of-sight weapons.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 31 August 2016 - 06:19 AM.

[DAEDALOS513]

Andi Nagasia, on 30 August 2016 - 09:35 PM, said:

LRMs arnt the best way for Green Players to earn money, its the best way for vets to Farm Green players,
Vets know how LRMs work, hear missile warning get to cover, quick enough means you take no damage,
Every other weapon that exists in MWO is better off to hit with them LRMs, Why?
because you can guarantee damage, your not just clicking and hoping,


im in teir 4 and i cant agree with that,
it only takes 2-3 games of LRMs to teach you(Hear warning = Get to Cover Fast)
you dont even see people bringing AMS because LRMs are such a Joke, if 5s arnt boated en mass,

In a way you should already be happy, LRMs are getting a gradual indirect buff with every map that is 'updated.' Maps are become behemoth in size catering to the new and inexperienced players that like to bring lurms. It's getting harder and harder to find cover, especially against IS lrms which lob their missiles instead of trailing them.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 31 August 2016 - 06:09 AM.

[Major Tomm]

No. Although LRM 20's and 15's need tighter spreads. And Artemis should work better for all LRMs. Right now Artemis does nothing for LRM 5's. Identical performance with or without Artemis on LRM5's.

Artemis just needs to be more of a buff. It is not a 35% accuracy buff nor do Artemis LRM missiles follow a line of sight path which they would do to infra-red laser targeting tracking. They might elevate a little, but only to clear low to moderate obstacles.

[Andi Nagasia]

DAEDALOS513, on 31 August 2016 - 06:06 AM, said:

In a way you should already be happy, LRMs are getting a gradual indirect buff with every map that is 'updated.' Maps are become behemoth in size catering to the new and inexperienced players that like to bring lurms. It's getting harder and harder to find cover, especially against IS lrms which lob their missiles instead of trailing them.

how are the New Updated Maps helping LRMs? most map reworks have alot more Cover,
i mean Even Polar has acquitted cover, where i rarely get Rained on(and im in T4 which is LRM Central as ive been told)

ask you self 3 Questions,
1) are you leaving your Self open to LRMs?
2) Are you Neglecting Cover when its available?
3) do you Ignore Betty when she yells at you?
-
answer yes to any of these? then perhaps you need ECM or AMS,
getting LRM'ed to death isnt the LRM Boats Fault, its yours for being too open too often,

[DAEDALOS513]

Andi Nagasia, on 02 September 2016 - 01:32 PM, said:

how are the New Updated Maps helping LRMs? most map reworks have alot more Cover,
i mean Even Polar has acquitted cover, where i rarely get Rained on(and im in T4 which is LRM Central as ive been told)

ask you self 3 Questions,
1) are you leaving your Self open to LRMs?
2) Are you Neglecting Cover when its available?
3) do you Ignore Betty when she yells at you?
-
answer yes to any of these? then perhaps you need ECM or AMS,
getting LRM'ed to death isnt the LRM Boats Fault, its yours for being too open too often,

I never said I was getting lrm'd to death but I did say the new maps are UNDENIABLY more lrm friendly... thus the indirect lrm buff.

Edited by DAEDALOS513, 02 September 2016 - 05:22 PM.

[Tibbnak]

Just make LRMS direct fire like they're supposed to be and add the Arrow IV in its place. Not overpowered because it's a single huge missile and two ams with overload can probably take it out

[Andi Nagasia]

DAEDALOS513, on 02 September 2016 - 02:06 PM, said:

I never said I was getting lrm'd to death but I did say the new maps are UNDENIABLY more lrm friendly... thus the indirect lrm buff.

Sorry didnt mean to leave the assumption that you did, i apologize,

sorry cant agree with reworked maps, they added in much more cover for River City,
adding rocks to the river area defiantly wasnt about helping LRMs exactly the opposite,
yes their are open areas but who wanders over to them? not many,

personally im more worried about being out in the open and getting hit with DuelGauss,
then getting LRMed to death, with LRMs you at least have a 6second Warning before you get hit,

[Seddrik]

Missiles are fine. They work quite well. And you have counters (radar derp, speed and positioning, ecm, etc).

[InvictusLee]

LRM's are not tier's 1-3's meta's because they cannot be focus fired or hit all at once since they spread around. Which sucks because getting them to hit fast mechs in the first place is a real talent.

[Inappropriate1]

Abnormal lrms are way underrated.

Your analysis does not take in to account that there are antispinward particles causing the distronification of mass diurnal metrification sub-quarks.

[WolfOfLight]

hey uh,, does this apply to the new update that came out where LRM5 spread was increased to LRM10 spread?