66 replies to this topic

[Mudhutwarrior]

If you use LRM's to herd or create area denial the big boxes work well. Its not all about kill count as LRMs are a support weapon. I don't understand the need to just use them as any other weapon as that's not what they are for. If I see movement out of an area I can drop in front of them and herd with big boxes better over a stream of 5. I think LRM's are pretty good where they are. The experienced good pilots really are not bothered by them as it should be. Then all you can hope for is suppression and herding.

Don't make LRMs easy mode. They are enough of that already.

[Hotthedd]

Andi Nagasia, on 24 August 2016 - 05:08 PM, said:

that may work but what if you have 4M hardpoints on a mech? will they all Chain Fire?

They would each fire 5 missiles at a time, if that is what you mean.

LRM5 = 1 volley of 5 missiles each
LRM10 = 2 volleys of 5 missiles each
LRM15 = 3 volleys of 5 missiles each
LRM 20 = 4 volleys of 5 missiles each.

The 5 missile spread can now be uniform across all launchers.

[Levi Porphyrogenitus]

How to fix LRMs with minimal effort?

Have each volley group into sets of 5 missiles each, which use the SSRM bone-tracking method to home in on a single component of the target mech. Boom, TT replicated, LRMs normalized.

For added fun, allow for indirect fire sans lock-on using the Battlegrid, with the LRMs deliberately spreading out significantly to turn them into area saturation/denial weapons.

Best of all, if they are firing directly have them flatten their trajectory significantly, opening them up for use in caves, under overhangs, etc.

[Andi Nagasia]

Hotthedd, on 25 August 2016 - 03:55 AM, said:

They would each fire 5 missiles at a time, if that is what you mean.

LRM5 = 1 volley of 5 missiles each
LRM10 = 2 volleys of 5 missiles each
LRM15 = 3 volleys of 5 missiles each
LRM 20 = 4 volleys of 5 missiles each.

The 5 missile spread can now be uniform across all launchers.

but if my mech has 4 missile hard points all with LRM5s in them,
if fired would all LRM5s fire at the same time or staggered Fire?

because if they do its a nerf to all LRM launchers,
also Large Launchers already pay the Price for longer Cooldown,
making them staggered fire would cause them to become ASM fodder,
also staggered fire would increase the time from the Launcher to target,
i dont think i can agree to staggered fire, as it decrease reliability 1-2 times over,

[Otto Cannon]

El Bandito, on 24 August 2016 - 11:38 PM, said:

On the other hand, LRM20 is more Artemis friendly than LRM5, and requires only one missile slot. If you make the spread and cooldown same across the board then LRM5s will get shafted, since ARLM20 = 11 tons with 6 slots requiring only 1 missile slot vs. 4xALRM5 = 12 tons and 8 slots and require 4 missiles slots. In that case, why not just pick ARLM20 everytime since it is way more efficient? IMO, there should be slight cooldown increase, larger the caliber is.

But that's perfect! You encourage using the smallest number of large racks with Artemis, while lighter mechs or less specialised ones can still save tonnage by not using it. The mechanics should make it more efficient to use one big rack than four small ones in at least one type of build, or else there's no reason the LRM20 would exist.

[El Bandito]

Otto Cannon, on 25 August 2016 - 07:36 AM, said:

But that's perfect! You encourage using the smallest number of large racks with Artemis, while lighter mechs or less specialised ones can still save tonnage by not using it. The mechanics should make it more efficient to use one big rack than four small ones in at least one type of build, or else there's no reason the LRM20 would exist.

Of course there will still be reasons for LRM20s to exist if the spread is now the same as LRM5. One can mount multiple ALRM20s without worrying about lost damage due to spread. In fact ALRM20 is gonna have less spread than multiple LRM5s without Artemis, making ALRM20 more damage efficient, as long as you got LoS.

Edited by El Bandito, 25 August 2016 - 07:47 AM.

[Tyler Valentine]

Andi Nagasia, on 24 August 2016 - 06:05 PM, said:

perhaps but its not any good as a weapon system, when an ECM is a hard Counter to them,
mechs with lots of missile hard Points Boat LRM5s but other than that you dont really see them,
we cant say (well i like the weapon system being useless because you then you dont see it used)
wait what? all weapon systems can and should be Viable Options, not just our Personal Favorites,

You're in Tier 4, you see LRMs all the time, what are you talking about? And please don't tell me what I can and can't say, WTF is that? I can say whatever I want. LRMs are boring and I'm glad they are useless. I want to look another mechwarrior in the eyes when I'm annihilating him with DAKKA!

[Sader325]

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

You're in Tier 4, you see LRMs all the time, what are you talking about? And please don't tell me what I can and can't say, WTF is that? I can say whatever I want. LRMs are boring and I'm glad they are useless. I want to look another mechwarrior in the eyes when I'm annihilating him with DAKKA!

It is never ok for a weapon system to be made useless just because you don't personally like it.

[Hotthedd]

Andi Nagasia, on 25 August 2016 - 07:30 AM, said:

but if my mech has 4 missile hard points all with LRM5s in them,
if fired would all LRM5s fire at the same time or staggered Fire?

because if they do its a nerf to all LRM launchers,
also Large Launchers already pay the Price for longer Cooldown,
making them staggered fire would cause them to become ASM fodder,
also staggered fire would increase the time from the Launcher to target,
i dont think i can agree to staggered fire, as it decrease reliability 1-2 times over,

IF we are borrowing from TT, 4 LRM5s fired simultaneously would shoot 1 volley of 20 missiles, but each cluster of 5 would have it's own spread (instead of spreading out as 20 missiles).
Therefore 4 LRM20s fired simultaneously would shoot 4 volleys of 20 missiles, with each cluster of 5 having it's own spread, four times.

[Tyler Valentine]

Sader325, on 25 August 2016 - 08:23 AM, said:

It is never ok for a weapon system to be made useless just because you don't personally like it.

SADER!!! Sup little homie!?

Never said it was okay, I said I was glad. I don't understand why you quoted my post for that comment...

[Dolph Hoskins]

All missiles should have the same degree of accuracy within the same parameters, ex. with or without artemis, tag, or narc bonuses.

Why not aim for somewhere in the middle as far as accuracy profiles though. Make all lrm's have the same distribution as say the current lrm 10 or 15 or somewhere in between those. That way there is still a decided bonus for bringing bigger launchers over multiple small one's. The benefits of artemis and other guidance systems would be an incremental improvement the larger the launcher due to reasons mentioned. More efficient use of weight, space, and heat per unit.

Smaller launchers should be in demand because a particular chassis doesn't have the space or tonnage available for larger launchers, not because larger launchers do not work worth a damn.

I am really liking the indirect fire ideas in this thread by the way, especially with the missiles changing to a flatter trajectory if fired visually.

Edited by The Ripper13, 27 August 2016 - 06:21 PM.

[MauttyKoray]

Idea:

Normalize spread upwards, with 5, 10, and down with 20s getting a spread towards the LRM15s. Meanwhile increase LRM damage slightly (requires test, could stay at current value, also adjust cooldown appropriately afterwards) to compensate for extra spread. This would hypothetically give the LRM 20 the largest bang for the buck and be more rewarding than taking 4LRM5s instead while also keeping the smaller ones viable for smaller mechs.

Edited by MauttyKoray, 25 August 2016 - 10:25 AM.

[Steve Pryde]

Imo indirect fire should only be possible with a TAG or Narc on the target what means that you need a spotter for it that. For people that are playing in teams that would be no problem and all the whining in pugs would be gone. Then you can improve the direct fly pattern for lrms and think about fire&forget lurms, higher velocity and a straighter flying pattern for them.

[Andi Nagasia]

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

You're in Tier 4, you see LRMs all the time, what are you talking about? And please don't tell me what I can and can't say, WTF is that? I can say whatever I want. LRMs are boring and I'm glad they are useless. I want to look another mechwarrior in the eyes when I'm annihilating him with DAKKA!

what Tier im in has no bounds on how i play or who i play with,
from my experience LRMs are Great at killing New Players but not much else,
which is why they are mostly missing from high level play,

i didnt say for you not to say anything, i said (we),
as in We you me everyone, we should strive for a Fair and Balanced Game, dont you Agree?

LRMs may be borning to you, and thats a problem, they need to be viable,
not not exploitable, but for now they all need to be balanced to each other first,
after then perhaps indirect fire can be removed(unless NARC / TAG / UAV)

[Wecx]

Why dont you all just advocate we rename MWO to MissleMech Online? Or is the population of battletech fans geting so old we dont have to reflexes to use anything other then LRMs?

[Tyler Valentine]

Why do you keep winking at me...?

Andi Nagasia, on 25 August 2016 - 11:57 AM, said:

what Tier im in has no bounds on how i play or who i play with,
from my experience LRMs are Great at killing New Players but not much else,
which is why they are mostly missing from high level play,

i didnt say for you not to say anything, i said (we),
as in We you me everyone, we should strive for a Fair and Balanced Game, dont you Agree?

LRMs may be borning to you, and thats a problem, they need to be viable,
not not exploitable, but for now they all need to be balanced to each other first,
after then perhaps indirect fire can be removed(unless NARC / TAG / UAV)

You said you hardly ever see LRMS, T4 is all LRMs all day, the players tend to be less skilled or have high ping so they use the easiest weapon system to hit with, so again, what are you talking about?

Larger LRM launchers, with the exception of the IS-LRM20, are fine where they are. If you are going to have a weapon system that requires no aim and no face time it shouldn't kill things as quickly as the weapon systems that do require the aforementioned drawbacks.

ECM range is 90m and can be countered with a UAV, get over it.

LRMs have a place. I run 15s on my Highlander IICs and my Onion IICs with ACs and PPCs in higher tier play and have no problem putting up big numbers. They don't need a buff, they just need to be used in conjunction with other weapons and a good pilot.

[MauttyKoray]

Wecx, on 25 August 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

Why dont you all just advocate we rename MWO to MissleMech Online? Or is the population of battletech fans geting so old we dont have to reflexes to use anything other then LRMs?

Missiles are a part of Battletech.

Missiles have been a part of Mechwarrior since the original, and in a similar/familiar form since MW2.

You suggest we remove a core piece of the game series???

[Andi Nagasia]

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Why do you keep winking at me...?

i just talk with emotes alot,

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

You said you hardly ever see LRMS, T4 is all LRMs all day, the players tend to be less skilled or have high ping so they use the easiest weapon system to hit with, so again, what are you talking about?

as im in T4 i see LRMs true, but its not always LRMs,
i see splat dogs more than LRM boats,

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

Larger LRM launchers, with the exception of the IS-LRM20, are fine where they are. If you are going to have a weapon system that requires no aim and no face time it shouldn't kill things as quickly as the weapon systems that do require the aforementioned drawbacks.

also LRMs have so many counters, anyone why has played with or against them knows one thing,
that standing/hiding in the back, and spamming missiles all day only works if your opposition is Green,
also not being able to see your target, means all your missiles can be Blasting Rocks not Mechs,
-
fight against anyone who has any idea how to counter LRMs and your LRMs loose 50% of their Effectiveness,
the only way to make LRMs good, is to hunt for locks your self, to fight with your team, and Push them with your team,
-
also LRMs arnt fine as they are, Proof?

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 08:10 AM, said:

LRMs are boring and I'm glad they are useless.

even you think they are Useless, so they cant be fine if their useless,

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

ECM range is 90m and can be countered with a UAV, get over it.

true but the enemy has to be close to use a UAV, and UAVs arnt really hard to shoot down,
also remember that even if your under UAV, thats doesnt Make Missiles more Accurate,
they will still hit rocks/walls/building and anything else you stand next to,

Tyler Valentine, on 25 August 2016 - 01:02 PM, said:

LRMs have a place. I run 15s on my Highlander IICs and my Onion IICs with ACs and PPCs in higher tier play and have no problem putting up big numbers. They don't need a buff, they just need to be used in conjunction with other weapons and a good pilot.

and im sure if it works for you your not hiding at the back, but in the fight Pushing the line,
Lrms are useless unless fighting Greens, which every other weapon is better,
Direct fire will always beat indirect fire, more reliability & more damage,

[Navid A1]

Wecx, on 25 August 2016 - 12:05 PM, said:

Why dont you all just advocate we rename MWO to MissleMech Online? Or is the population of battletech fans geting so old we dont have to reflexes to use anything other then LRMs?

Anything "other" than LRMs?
Dude... LRMs are so sh*t at the moment that I'm even considering removing them from my joke builds.
Its funny when you see people that are getting owned by joke builds.

[Tyler Valentine]

Andi Nagasia, on 25 August 2016 - 03:27 PM, said:

You spending a lot of time and attention on me

They are useless if you boat, just fine if you use them with other weapons. Learn to get into the fight and you won't think they are so awful. If they are buffed people will be dying to indirect fire constantly... boring.

Good luck with your crusade man, im sure Russ really cares