56 replies to this topic

[Oderint dum Metuant]

Johnny Z, on 27 August 2016 - 09:27 AM, said:

Its a deeper game than it first appears. Not everyone is on your side, on these forums or in game.

Assaults are the hardest class to do well in. The slower the mech the tougher it can be to do well in and the more practice it takes to do well.

Want easy mode pilot a Timberwolf going 90 kph and armor and weapons as good as nearly any mech in the game. That or an Arctic Cheetah, same sort of thing.

Topic is made by an Inner Sphere pilot, that's a bit of a hard mode, get used to it.

Not really the laser vomit warhammer is more popular, and the Black Widow is also good.

[Johnny Z]

Oderint dum Metuant, on 27 August 2016 - 09:35 AM, said:

Not really the laser vomit warhammer is more popular, and the Black Widow is also good.

There is a lot of good mechs. But I was trying to be helpful to a newer player and the Timberwolf and Arctic cheetah and a few others are very close to easy mode. I don't complain about balance any more because its close now compared to what it was but if players want to know the score......

Like I said there are mechs that can beat those. But if someone that has practice piloting wants a good score for sure pack a bunch of CERML on a Timberwolf and lay waste.

Edited by Johnny Z, 27 August 2016 - 09:42 AM.

[El Bandito]

I personally also think mechs in MWO have too much mobility, and I feel like playing as an armored soldier than a 20-100 ton hunk of metal. Mechs are turning on a dime, stopping on a dime, and that just turns me off a bit.

[WarHippy]

Personal preference really. I would like to see more mobility for some of the mechs.

[Johnny Z]

WarHippy, on 27 August 2016 - 09:59 AM, said:

Personal preference really. I would like to see more mobility for some of the mechs.

Maybe, but the sim isn't about preference.

[jaxjace]

Personally i wish everything moved about 20 percent faster... I miss my jenners going almost 155, i miss my dires going almost 55, i miss my timbers going almost 90, i miss my comando going over 170,


hell for that matter I miss my highlander being able to jump, i miss all things being able to jump, I miss fast torso twisting too.

Im sick of seeing the game slowed down more and more and more.


In regards to OP, a single light mech outfitted for combat should be able to kill an assault mech with skill, lady luck, and admiral awesome, by that same merit, an assault mech should always be able to kill a light mech in seconds, if not one alpha.

[xe N on]

El Bandito, on 27 August 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I personally also think mechs in MWO have too much mobility, and I feel like playing as an armored soldier than a 20-100 ton hunk of metal. Mechs are turning on a dime, stopping on a dime, and that just turns me off a bit.

The hole movement is not giving the feeling of driving a multi-ton vehicle. Reason: there is no or not enough inertia in this game. Best example is torso twist. Twisting torso should start slow and accelerate then slow down again. But moving the torso gives you a direct response. Same is true for arm movement.

Edited by xe N on, 27 August 2016 - 12:44 PM.

[LowSubmarino]

Lights threat increases exponentially to the aim value of the attacked player. The one fighting the light. If your aim is just average or poor, a light will literally run circles. around you.

In battletech you had the elite of the elite of the elite men and women with excellent reflexes and aim. They were focking dangerous. And they hit what they wanted to hit most of the time.

Look at mwo.

Pll cant hit anything.

Its just a game for them and most dont really care that much.

Im not saying thats bad or that I treat a round of mwo as a life or death encounter.

But if ppl are trained, more skilled, better at aiming, then you will demolish lights. A good heavy pilot wont just stumble into the canyon on canyon network. What 85 % of all the players I see do all the time. And then get überharassed from the surrounding topsides. A good heavy wont even allow a light to just sneak up on him. He scans his surroundings almost always and will - in 90 % of the cases - start firing at the light when it trys to find an easy target.

In mwo ppl are completly oblivious as to what is going on at any given time.

Completly.

I saw entire teams get lrmraped by one single uav clearly visible in the sky. One ppc or laser would have taken it down.

They all died in a hail of lrms.

You cannot balance this kind of playstyle of most ppl in mwo.

Lights instamelt when facing firepower + good aim. they jsut crumble.

I win a fair share of brawls with a lights.

In a hunchback IIC A. Totally unquirked.No structure or armor buffs. Its a squishy mech. And I use the hottest weapons possible. Cerppcs.

And yet if you land your alphas lights die.

Spiders, jenners, locusts! espeically....they melt rather quickly. The way ppl fight lights is inefficient though. They slugishly fire some lasers in the general direction. Barely scratching the light. When I died and check how other ppl play I see most players not being able to anticipate an enemys movment. they literally shoot at the moving light and do not lead their shots.

I saw mechs dakkaing endless streams but only hitting the lights shadows.

ANd that is Tier 1 (and prolly 2).

That is why lights seem much, much, much much much stronger than they actually are. In this kind of skill level, lights can actually become a real threat.

If you were facing actual real mechwarriors which would make me - and im a jedi focking master - look like a novice, you would harldy ever see lights just boldly run between an entire team or getting into facemelting range.

Because those players/mechwarriors you would face will hit you. Period. And they do not do foolish things. And they are experts at leading, anticipating and making sure you cannot even sneak up on them in the first place.

In that scenario lights would be just that. Lightly armored targets that serve a different purpose. Not like in mwo.

Yes they would go into brawls as packs but mostly scout and skirmish from the flanks.

In mwo you do not have to fear much as a light. And most ppl will get owned by a good light pilot. Too slow is their movment, too bad their aim, too oblivious what happens right around them. Too ignorant concerning vision of the surrounding area and possible approach vectors.

In mwo ppl just stumble around blindly.

Just one real mechwarrior would kill an entire team and they would think its godlevel wall and aimbot hacks.

[WarHippy]

Johnny Z, on 27 August 2016 - 10:05 AM, said:

Maybe, but the sim isn't about preference.

That depends on what you are trying to simulate. There are lore arguments for more mobility as there are lore arguments for less. Like I said it really is personal preference. We have people on both sides of this wanting faster or slower mobility so maybe we are better off with it as is because increasing or decreasing mobility is only going to make one side or the other more frustrated than it already is.

[Khobai]

Quote

Wouldn't it be enjoyable if the playing field were, say, four times larger and the light lance had the important job of locating an opposing force in order to give the rest of the company a better tactical advantage?

why would that be enjoyable? and how would you gain a tactical advantage?

even if the maps were four times bigger, all youd have to do to see the enemy, is get on the highest point of terrain and use your eyes to spot them. wow such fun.

scouting will never be a thing in mwo because you can see way farther than sensors can detect.

[Johnny Z]

WarHippy, on 27 August 2016 - 01:14 PM, said:

That depends on what you are trying to simulate. There are lore arguments for more mobility as there are lore arguments for less. Like I said it really is personal preference. We have people on both sides of this wanting faster or slower mobility so maybe we are better off with it as is because increasing or decreasing mobility is only going to make one side or the other more frustrated than it already is.

Cant argue with that, but there is an argument that more sim is preferable because there are so many twitch shooters already out.

[Mcgral18]

El Bandito, on 27 August 2016 - 09:55 AM, said:

I personally also think mechs in MWO have too much mobility, and I feel like playing as an armored soldier than a 20-100 ton hunk of metal. Mechs are turning on a dime, stopping on a dime, and that just turns me off a bit.

I can agree with it...but at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want it to happen.


Responsive mechs makes them more enjoyable to play, and things like the Whale (with a slow, restrictive frontal arc) are not.
Mechs with small engines and no efficiencies are a pain, but is that because everything else is slow?

jaxjace, on 27 August 2016 - 12:04 PM, said:

Personally i wish everything moved about 20 percent faster... I miss my jenners going almost 155, i miss my dires going almost 55, i miss my timbers going almost 90, i miss my comando going over 170,

I think he means agility wise, not ground speed

[El Bandito]

Mcgral18, on 27 August 2016 - 04:52 PM, said:

I can agree with it...but at the same time, I'm not sure I'd want it to happen.

Responsive mechs makes them more enjoyable to play, and things like the Whale (with a slow, restrictive frontal arc) are not.
Mechs with small engines and no efficiencies are a pain, but is that because everything else is slow?

If I want highly responsive mechs, I'd play Hawken or something. MWO also made the mechs way too agile by giving max engine inflation and coupling engine size with turn rate. If PGI reverts all the engine inflation (for example, Atlas is capped at 300), with the exception of the Urbie, and then decouples twist speed from engine size, then gameflow might start to feel like as they should. Dire Whale will not be the only slowest mech any longer.

Edited by El Bandito, 27 August 2016 - 05:16 PM.

[SamsungNinja]

if you have a light circle-strafing you, just back up. It screws with their circles, they often run into your leg and get disoriented, which gives you an opening for a kill. Also, track them to the edge of your torso twist and then spin your nose around to meet them on the other side. It reduces the window of opportunity on your back and gets them in your line of sight.

If you find lights are too much of a weak point, fit some streaks into your build (doesn't have to be that many) and that will usually send them packing for an easier target.

Moral of the story: if you find lights to be a constant problem, you should take it as a sign that there's something about your builds that makes you attractive as a target.

[DrxAbstract]

El Bandito, on 27 August 2016 - 05:12 PM, said:

If I want highly responsive mechs, I'd play Hawken or something. MWO also made the mechs way too agile by giving max engine inflation and coupling engine size with turn rate. If PGI reverts all the engine inflation (for example, Atlas is capped at 300), with the exception of the Urbie, and then decouples twist speed from engine size, then gameflow might start to feel like as they should. Dire Whale will not be the only slowest mech any longer.

There's an assumption here that one knows how agile a BattleMech is or should be... When nobody does--not even the creators of BattleTech can give a definite answer on this. Everything is relative, and yet still completely subjective. It's entirely possible BattleTech Mechs are more agile than the ones in Hawken, which would put your preconceived notions in an awkward place while completely invalidating your opinion... Or vice versa! That's just not kosher though, is it... Because we cant work with indefinites.

And Lights would get absolutely slaughtered. Even objects moving at relatively (150kph vs. 60kph) high speed can get blown to bits when they lack the maneuvering capability to alter their trajectories in such a way as to confuse or misdirect their opponents since they're stuck on an easily anticipated route. The slower and less agile you make Lights, the further removed they become from combat effectiveness, disproportionate in effect to say, an Assault, as Lights are far more reliant on speed and agility for survival... Further perpetuating the detrimental "bigger is better" ideology.

Even in BattleTech TT Lights are capable of making hairpin turns provided they successfully roll on pilot skill, so the entire premise that "Lights should fall over on X terrain and X speed" is based entirely on the assumption that every player fails a successful piloting roll rather than simply assuming every pilot in MWO is inherently so good they automatically beat said roll.

... Meh.

Edited by DrxAbstract, 28 August 2016 - 02:24 AM.

[El Bandito]

DrxAbstract, on 28 August 2016 - 02:10 AM, said:

And Lights would get absolutely slaughtered. Even objects moving at relatively (150kph vs. 60kph) high speed can get blown to bits when they lack the maneuvering capability to alter their trajectories in such a way as to confuse or misdirect their opponents since they're stuck on an easily anticipated route. The slower and less agile you make Lights, the further removed they become from combat effectiveness, disproportionate in effect to say, an Assault as Lights are far more reliant on speed and agility for survival... Further perpetuating the detrimental "bigger is better" ideology.

Even in BattleTech TT Lights are capable of making hairpin turns provided they successfully roll on pilot skill, so the entire premise that "Lights should fall over on X terrain and X speed" is based entirely on the assumption that every player fails a successful piloting roll rather than simply assuming every pilot in MWO is inherently so good they automatically beat said roll.

... Meh.

That makes sense, but it just highlights PGI's incompetence in incorporating role warfare into their game.

[DrxAbstract]

El Bandito, on 28 August 2016 - 02:12 AM, said:

That makes sense, but it just highlights PGI's incompetence in incorporating role warfare into their game.

Edited.

[Pilotasso]

I have to agree with the OP. While you can learn to deal with lights, there's too much twichy spam going on. Its far easier to get away with impunity driving them than being on the other side and deal with the apparent impunity in which they approach.
This is why most prefer piloting lights and engaging in Rambo mode rather than learning to deal with them.

I have caught some over confident ones that get occasionally killed by large autocannons and them come to these boards complaining light mechs are made of paper lol.

Edited by Pilotasso, 28 August 2016 - 03:32 AM.

[Idealsuspect]

IntruderGeo, on 27 August 2016 - 07:33 AM, said:

Don't get me wrong, I love this game and it's detailed mechanics.

It feels like I'm piloting a Battlesuit instead of a gigantic walking tank.
Heavy mechs seem to be just overloaded weapons which are frequently outmaneuvered by a single light mech. That's just wrong. Four or five lights, yeah, I can see that, but not 1.

No no.
In tier 5 you have a battlesuit in tier 1 you have a walking tank bro !

Tier and battlesuit/walking tank feeling, both depend how you pilot in fact.

Edited by Idealsuspect, 28 August 2016 - 04:20 AM.

[Bobzilla]

OP, stop thinking tonnage has anything to do with effectiveness, because its not suppose to. 100 tons should equal 25 tons. It's counter-intuitive (especially with lighter=cheaper), but it's how it has to be or we'd only need 1 weight class. And don't forget, it's balanced around 12v12 not 1v1 (don't get caught alone in a mech that can't easily disengage).

That being said, its still heavier is better for the most part, but unintentionally. And FW is weight sensitive, so they shot themselves in the foot there and will never achieve balance in both QP and FP at the same time.