116 replies to this topic

[UberStuka]

PGI has ****** this game mode up with the last few patches. Starting with skill tree nerfs, structure reductions on the IS side, global weapons range nerfs, and rescales...

These nerfs hit IS way harder than clans. What does this mean for IS in FW??? IS have to brawl or take a loss IMO. I still do great in IS mechs but for the average player or complete NOOB the play style / skill ceiling is just to much right now.

Onto other FW issues. IMO most IS decks are handicapped with a light mech in their decks. They have no good 4 heavies deck options. While the clans can run 4 solid heavies in a deck.

With energy draw coming down the pipe we can only hope for something better but for right now id advise staying far away from IS in FW.

Just imagine 12 months ago how happy you were with IS and compare that to now.

[Too Much Love]

Faction Warfare was doomed from the very beginning by dull and mediocre design.

30 min matches on the few maps, by the same rules, with the same walls and "generators", dozens of minutes of waiting... - are you joking? I'm surprised that it's dead only now, not a year ago.

MWO is a game with a small fan base, only 1 thousand+ people are playing at the same time, and they dicided to divide this 1000 players into 2 halves. 500 for FW, 500 for quick play.

Players in CW are divided by faction loyalty, players in quick play are divided into those who play alone and those who play in groups. In the end you get desert in quickplay and wasteland in faction warfare.

Edited by drunkblackstar, 04 September 2016 - 06:32 AM.

[Commander A9]

Perhaps one should consider forming groups to deploy into battle versus going alone?

I've recently pitched that the incentive to CW is playing for the people. So let us consider dropping with others for the sake of dropping with others versus going solo as another incentive to play.

[Tesunie]

Arkham Chase, on 27 August 2016 - 09:43 AM, said:

This afternoon, I was sadly in a fw match with some ignorant and greedy people. It was 12v12 pugs. Our team won and had taken the 3 gens....10 or so kills up. They wanted to farm the other team in their zone...as they dropped out. They screamed at me to not take omega... because they wanted cash and rewards....they did not care one bit about frustrating the opfor out of fw. I asked them to show some sportsmanship and class behaviour...they even started shooting at me.
I asked them if they thought it was cool that this sort of behaviour is the sort of thing forcing people out of fw. They just laughed and carried on with the greed.
Thank God I managed to survive the team damage and deny them the last three ganks. I left JF today, I do not want to associate with this behaviour.

I've been in groups like that as well. I personally, if it's being a stomp, would rather just end it quickly by taking the objective. It really is the sportsmanship thing to do.

However, rushing just the objective isn't very sportsmanlike either... Some fighting should ensue.

Overall, I commend your stand against poor sportsmanship from your teammates. Thank you for looking out for as many players as you could so we all can have a good game.

Appogee, on 28 August 2016 - 01:35 AM, said:

But since you raised the subject: the only group I don't like facing is a certain predominantly Russian group which I'm fairly sure has at least some members using aimbots. I'm actually hoping to drop against them because I want to catch the remarkable "cockpit headshots while moving" on video and satisfy myself that I am right before I make any specific allegation.

Hum... I wonder if it's the same group I'm thinking of... I crashed into a group in the quickplay group queue a few nights ago... Each time I ran into them I'd magically get a single head shot dealt to me at long ranges (as in, ridiculously long ranges), while on the move, often times while in the middle of a jump... After the "head armor test", I didn't see it happen again that match.

Luck? Maybe. Three games in a row? Not so sure anymore... Not even sure if it was the same guys sadly.

Now, if I was trying to be sneaky and use a bot/hack/cheat... I'd use it for a shot here or there and disable it otherwise. That way, it's easier to deny...

But, like you, I don't want to point fingers without evidence. I suspect. Could be nothing. Could be skill. Could be luck. Could be more...

[D V Devnull]

Kin3ticX, on 01 September 2016 - 07:43 AM, said:

hate to break it to you but CW has been cratering and the april patch only made it happen faster

Indeed... Particularly because those awful FW Contract System changes happened with the April Patch. I frankly don't think that CW/FW would have cratered so hard otherwise. Long Tom's just an extra affliction; the Contract System changes wiped out a rather insane share of inclination from people to play FW. For the most part, nobody wants to play something that doesn't feel 'inviting' to the mind. Like I pointed at back on Page 2, if PGI would repair Contracts, things would then be a lot better.

~Mr. D. V. "It's not the Buckets, or even the Long Tom... the Contract System is the root cause." Devnull

[Tesunie]

D V Devnull, on 01 September 2016 - 01:40 PM, said:

Indeed... Particularly because those awful FW Contract System changes happened with the April Patch. I frankly don't think that CW/FW would have cratered so hard otherwise. Long Tom's just an extra affliction; the Contract System changes wiped out a rather insane share of inclination from people to play FW. For the most part, nobody wants to play something that doesn't feel 'inviting' to the mind. Like I pointed at back on Page 2, if PGI would repair Contracts, things would then be a lot better.

~Mr. D. V. "It's not the Buckets, or even the Long Tom... the Contract System is the root cause." Devnull

FYI: Everyone has a different concept and idea as to what is wrong and how to fix it.

AKA(Read that as): I'm not saying you are right nor wrong. Just that what you see as a problem may not be the problem. Or your solution may not be as practical as you may think it is. (And even if it is, it may not be shared by others.)

[D V Devnull]

Tesunie, on 01 September 2016 - 01:47 PM, said:

<<<snip>>>

FYI: Everyone has a different concept and idea as to what is wrong and how to fix it.

AKA(Read that as): I'm not saying you are right nor wrong. Just that what you see as a problem may not be the problem. Or your solution may not be as practical as you may think it is. (And even if it is, it may not be shared by others.)

True, this... It just seems to me however like PGI doesn't understand that people don't always have large amounts of time to devote. Nor do they have an inclination to play if things feel overly harsh and punishing. So yeah, the Contract System feels like the injury, and the Long Tom & Buckets the insult on top. But I do understand that other people feel other ways about it, and we'll have to hope PGI can fix all three, or there won't be any victory either for the players or PGI.

~D. V. "Yeah, what a mess..." Devnull

[Tesunie]

D V Devnull, on 01 September 2016 - 02:28 PM, said:

True, this... It just seems to me however like PGI doesn't understand that people don't always have large amounts of time to devote. Nor do they have an inclination to play if things feel overly harsh and punishing. So yeah, the Contract System feels like the injury, and the Long Tom & Buckets the insult on top. But I do understand that other people feel other ways about it, and we'll have to hope PGI can fix all three, or there won't be any victory either for the players or PGI.

~D. V. "Yeah, what a mess..." Devnull

Some questions/comments for you (forgive me if you posted it before, but I must have missed it):
- What is wrong with the current contract system? Many people asked for it. Also, I rather like the current contract system over the previous system. Now, loyalists have more control over their factions, meanwhile faction hoping mercs (which I have no problems with) can still do what they claim to do and "go where the money is", instead of also "dictating where that faction will fight" at the same time. Still some problems, of course. I would love to see longer merc contracts than 7 days, and see those longer contracts be more rewarded. (I'm hearing this part from my unit leader.)
- Long Tom? Yes. It probably should have been reconsidered. I would personally love to see it's removal from the game, but what else would/could be used to entice people into the cried for "scout mode"? (Do recall, people asked for scout mode as a smaller game mode to FP.)
- What do you mean by "buckets"? Last I knew, that was a feature that was added into the game due to demand, and then promptly removed due to "demand". This bucket was all unit players being in one queue (no matter if solo or as a group) and all PUGs (solos with no units at all) being in a separate "channel". This broke down queues so badly, matches were very hard to find. (Hence, it was reversed. Unless I'm misinformed).
- What do you feel is "wrong" with FP? Also, do keep in mind that people demanded FP for a long while and the initial reaction was mixed, but overall people liked it at first.


Some of what I've been hearing with FP is the same that I've heard about Skirmish. It's stuff players have cried for being added in, as it was requested, and then when it doesn't work as the players thought it would, they point fingers at PGI and decry it as their fault. (Such as, the last person in a skirmish match hiding in a corner and shutting down. Apparently, despite skirmish being asked for, exactly as asked for, it was PGI's fault for letting people being able to hide and not die...)


My current concept of what is "wrong" with FP is the queues and the queue wait times. They are long. But, we've seperated everyone out into several factions, and then several worlds to attack/defend. Attack votes has reduced those selections down, which is nice. However, the population playing FP does not support how many options there currently exist.

The second problem I see holding FP back is teams. Teamwork is prime, and you should consider that FP is designed for teams and units. It should remain catered to that, but at the same time something needs to give.

The last problem I see with FP isn't a problem with it's current form, but what I believe people were expecting from it. I believe people were expecting some persistent battlefield action, where a world would be fought over and, instead of having it as a series of matches played like quickplay, they could drop onto an already engaged battle with other players and fight in a more persistent world like environment. Basically, a "world" map that players could claim territory and drop in and out of said battle more or less freely. Instead we got basically quickplay matches with more interstice rules and objectives added in. As much as people wanted persistent and large scale battles, the "quickplay" match style is easier to program, alter and set up.

I do wonder how a more open world concept might work, where you can drop onto a battlefield and fight for actual territory... (If you grasp what mean here.) However, I'm also wondering what kind of technology, servers and coding would be required for such a feat. Would it be possible/worth it for MW:O to pursue such a thing?

(Sorry if I rambled a bit. A lot echos when your head is empty!)

[UberStuka]

Why do so many players keep saying LT I haven't seen that thing in 2 months other than the auto ceasefire LT

Like that is the balance issue holding players back from FP or something.

[MischiefSC]

It was active on CGB border just the other day. Largely people avoid it so they can get matches but it shows up.

[UberStuka]

I get the avoid that planet it has long tom... but come on people should say hey they almost have LT on that planet lets go scout so they cant get one...

Seriously no one coordinates ****... Its like they play 1 man groups or something. FP is supposed to be more than playing for yourselves.

[Tesunie]

UberStuka, on 01 September 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

I get the avoid that planet it has long tom... but come on people should say hey they almost have LT on that planet lets go scout so they cant get one...

Seriously no one coordinates ****... Its like they play 1 man groups or something. FP is supposed to be more than playing for yourselves.

Yes and no.

You are completely correct on what you are saying. However, in counter point (and understand I agree with you), no one aspect of something should have such an impact on matches.

Another problem with this is, once an enemy team has LT, the other side suddenly doesn't want to queue up for invasion matches and only play scouting matches. This leads to a lack of Invasion matches, which is where the enemy will be queueing, as they now have that advantage of LT. Thus, causing another problem of long queue times...

[A Shoddy Rental Mech]

UberStuka, on 01 September 2016 - 03:06 PM, said:

Why do so many players keep saying LT I haven't seen that thing in 2 months other than the auto ceasefire LT

Like that is the balance issue holding players back from FP or something.

Wait till next weekends event. Long Tom will be back.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't a problem. The fact that it exist is a problem.

It is without a doubt the #1 thing wrong with faction warfare. It has driven more people away from Faction Warfare and MWO. It is also the easiest to fix. GET RID OF IT.

Just look at how many FW threads on this forum point right back to Long Tom.

[MischiefSC]

UberStuka, on 01 September 2016 - 03:38 PM, said:

I get the avoid that planet it has long tom... but come on people should say hey they almost have LT on that planet lets go scout so they cant get one...

Seriously no one coordinates ****... Its like they play 1 man groups or something. FP is supposed to be more than playing for yourselves.

Okay. Please let me know when the only way to play FW is in a coordinated premade on TS.

Also let me know how many matches you get with no pugs on the other side.

The argument has no rational basis. It's arguing what should happen if FW was completely different, played by different people. The argument of "well pugs should coordinate" has literally no functional difference from "just use the Force to score endless headshots". It's not an argument it's an appeal to absurdity.

The only reason FW works and is populated and has been the last year is the endless supply of suicide pugs who line up to lose 90% of their matches. It pads your stats and gets you drops. Their decision to show up and lose day after day, week after week is the adhesive stupidity that makes FW work with all the other problems it has.

LT in one of the fee mechanics so pants on head insanely stupid that even the suicide pugs won't play it. That is the most obvious sign that it's a broken, terrible mechanic.

Don't wish the pugs away though. They're all that keeps you playing and makes you feel like a winner.

[General Solo]

Smashing pugs makes me sad.



Maybe....



Just for FW, give pugs an amour multiplier, because their is no matchmaker in FW, that way groups feel some pug teeth moar. And pugs feel more powerfull.

(Don't make it a consumable of course, its an old picture on the web which I was too lazy to edit.)

Not saying this will fix FW, just something to consider to improve the experience for pugs, with little cost.

.

Edited by OZHomerOZ, 01 September 2016 - 06:34 PM.

[KingCobra]

Sigh is it time to drop yet? 10 minute mark.

Sigh is it time to drop yet? 20 minute mark

Sigh is it time to drop yet? 30 minute mark

Screw it the rewards are just not worth the wait back to solo MM which is repetitive and boring as well.

OW lets play Hawken they have a few interesting game modes and its not to bad of a mech game after all.

[Tesunie]

The Nerf Bat, on 01 September 2016 - 04:44 PM, said:

Wait till next weekends event. Long Tom will be back.
Just because you haven't seen it doesn't mean it isn't a problem. The fact that it exist is a problem.

It is without a doubt the #1 thing wrong with faction warfare. It has driven more people away from Faction Warfare and MWO. It is also the easiest to fix. GET RID OF IT.

Just look at how many FW threads on this forum point right back to Long Tom.

Though I'm not opposed to the removal of the LT, I have a question for you:
Without the LT, what motivation does playing scout mode have?
What can replace the LT for a reward for winning in Scout Mode?

Lets face it, if scout missions don't give a decent advantage somewhere, than what would be the point of playing the mode? We need something to make scouting worth doing, but at the same time it can't have such an impact on invasion game modes as to be too unsettling. Some kind of balance needs to be found between too powerful and not powerful enough.

Basically, Scouting needs to be rewarding and impactful for invasion modes. The level of impact needs to be adjusted. It needs to be an aid, without being a force multiplier*.

What if, O-gens had reduced health when scouting was overly successful? Would make playing the game mode adventegious for them, without being a force multiplier against the enemy.
What if, it would disable all turrets in the matches played when scouting is maxed out? It would aid in invading, without being massively disruptive.


*What I mean by "Force multiplier" here is something that additional adds damage. It makes death to players too easy. Lets face it, dead players are players not having fun. Players not able to have fun (because they are dieing too quickly) get frustrated. Etc.

[MischiefSC]

You scout because you like scouting. Same reason you play Invasion when you're in most factions or a pug or anyone who's not in a 12man in Attack queue. You play it to get the matches and play the game.

This idea that apparently Scouting is a terrible game mode that's no fun for anyone and people would only play it if bribed significantly with huge rewards in Invasion is another fundamentally flawed approach to the games design. you play something because it's fun to play.

[Sjorpha]

Tesunie, on 01 September 2016 - 11:36 PM, said:

Though I'm not opposed to the removal of the LT, I have a question for you:
Without the LT, what motivation does playing scout mode have?
What can replace the LT for a reward for winning in Scout Mode?

There is no shortage of possible impacts from scouting, and you suggest some yourself.

Depending on which side has it it could boost sensor ranges, it could reactivate turrets/gates in counter attack, deactivate them in invasion, increase gen health, pre open gates, delay or speed up deployment of reinforcements, give or reduce tonnage, increase targeting speeds and so on and so forth.

There could easily be any number of scouting levels that progressively adds up to make scouting advantage desirable without a game breaking mechanic.

You could also make long tom simply delayed enough that any mech can get away and make hard cover offer protection, that way long tom would be an area denial tool forcing one team to constantly move or be punished. Only requires changing a couple XML values.

Edited by Sjorpha, 02 September 2016 - 03:52 AM.

[Tesunie]

MischiefSC, on 02 September 2016 - 12:46 AM, said:

You scout because you like scouting. Same reason you play Invasion when you're in most factions or a pug or anyone who's not in a 12man in Attack queue. You play it to get the matches and play the game.

This idea that apparently Scouting is a terrible game mode that's no fun for anyone and people would only play it if bribed significantly with huge rewards in Invasion is another fundamentally flawed approach to the games design. you play something because it's fun to play.

Though I agree, a game should be played to have fun, I also believe that if PGI didn't have scouting have some kind of significant impact on invasion game modes that people would complain about "the useless game mode".

I take the same approach for mechs. I'd like to have more mechs in the game just to have more mechs in the game. Some people though only want a mech added if "it adds something that another mech doesn't already do, or do better".

I think this leads to some double standards against PGI. If they do it one way, people will be angry. If they do it another way, people will be angry. As said, people want scouting to have an impact. When it first game out, I heard a lot of people being concerned that it was a waste of time for PGI to design scouting mode. That it wouldn't have any impact on invasion mode. Then, it went from that to scouting having no/low effect until LT was reached, and then "the apocalypses is upon us!" too much impact.

Scouting mode, to make sense in the game, has to have some kind of meaningful impact. It's a matter of how much impact that needs to be regulated. I'd rather see it impact in areas other than direct damage (which is what the LT does). Hence, if we are calling/suggesting the LTs removal, we also need to suggest a few replacements and why we feel they are more suitable for invasion impact than the LT is.